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moses
moses
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March 24th, 2021 at 11:31:24 AM permalink
IF memory serves me correctly, Don S stated that SCORE is the main barometer one should consider. Perhaps the only?

Peter Griffin came up with BC Bet Correlation, PE Playing Efficiency, and IC Insurance long before SCORE was developed by Don S. This was based of EoR Effect of Removal. Who developed EoR?

I compare SCORE, Session Win %, and Win Rate from CV Data sims before taking a count strategy for a test drive on Verite.

My purpose is NOT to start a count debate. But wrap up some work I've been doing for a long time. Hopefully forever.
moses
moses
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March 24th, 2021 at 11:40:32 AM permalink
So Don and Norm decided on RPC a/k/a FELT and stayed with it for decades. Both say they never found anything better. They must have settled on this count because of BC, PE, IC because Don S had not yet developed SCORE. No?

That being said, I always try to get similar BC, PE, and IC for sim comparisons.

The new count has a high SCORE. It offers a higher percentage of large bets. PE is the same as FELT. IC is higher with Ace side count. But BC is sub par.

Should a line be drawn for BC? If so, where?
Last edited by: moses on Mar 24, 2021
moses
moses
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April 5th, 2021 at 12:30:37 PM permalink
Accoding to SCORE there is little to no point in assigning a tag to the 2 in the single deck straight up game.

Byyce Carlson assigned tags to 4,5,6 the doubles 2,3,7.

Hi Opt I counts 3,4,5,6 vs 10.
Hi Opt Ii counts and then aide counts the 7.

RPC tags on 3,4,5,6 doubles 2,7.

If you assigned a higher tag to the 2 than 7? SCORE declines.
Reverse it and SCORE increases.

So, one question comes to mind. If Mr. Griffin started his research and calculations based on single deck, how is it he came up with such a high EOR for the 2?

With all respect meant, what changes in the multi deck multi player game where HiLo gives equal tags to the 2 and 5?
moses
moses
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April 5th, 2021 at 12:30:45 PM permalink
Accoding to SCORE there is little to no point in assigning a tag to the 2 in the single deck straight up game.

Byyce Carlson assigned tags to 4,5,6 the doubles 2,3,7.

Hi Opt I counts 3,4,5,6 vs 10.
Hi Opt Ii counts and then side counts the 7.

RPC tags on 3,4,5,6 doubles 2,7.

If you assigned a higher tag to the 2 than 7? SCORE declines.
Reverse it and SCORE increases.

So, one question comes to mind. If Mr. Griffin started his research and calculations based on single deck, how is it he came up with such a high EOR for the 2?

With all respect meant, what changes in the multi deck multi player game where HiLo gives equal tags to the 2 and 5?
kewlj
kewlj
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April 5th, 2021 at 4:09:06 PM permalink
I am sorry you haven't gotten much response to this moses. There just aren't many players that play the single deck game in North Nevada than 'might' benefit from it as you could.

Of course the 2 and 5 aren't equal. Everyone understands that. You are giving up a little bit in the name of simplicity, because that is how the shoe games are beaten.

If you want a count that is perfect or close to perfect there is one out there. I forget the name. Somebody's ultimate or super ultimate count. I think there is a different value for every card. lol

Something else you are missing with your 2 vs 5 analogy. We are not looking for either the 2's or the 5's. We are looking for the 10's and Aces. Offsetting the 2's and 5's (and other low cards) only helps us identify when there is an abundance of 10's and aces. That is when we win! Mostly because of increased blackjack @ 3:2 payoff. Also a little more success on the (8), 9, 10, 11 double downs.
moses
moses
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April 5th, 2021 at 4:45:33 PM permalink
Thanks for response KJ. I wasnt expectong a ton of response. Just a few veterans perspective is enough.

In terms of simplicity, wouldnt it be more prudent to tag the 5 at 2 and 2 at 0? You're correct I dont play multi. Just a question to get your point of view.

Thanks.
kewlj
kewlj
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April 5th, 2021 at 4:57:28 PM permalink
Quote: moses

Thanks for response KJ. I wasnt expectong a ton of response. Just a few veterans perspective is enough.

In terms of simplicity, wouldnt it be more prudent to tag the 5 at 2 and 2 at 0? You're correct I dont play multi. Just a question to get your point of view.

Thanks.



Well it wouldn't be for me! lol. I play a level 1 count and 5@2, 2@0, everything else at +/-1 wouldn't be a level 1 count. :/

But if it would be prudent for you aren't there already counts that do that? I mean you are the expert on all the different counts. I would have thought you would have found one to suit you be now. I think you are looking for perfection. A count at maximum betting and playing efficiency. I am the opposite. I just see little value in that, so you are definitely asking the wrong person.
moses
moses
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April 5th, 2021 at 5:12:55 PM permalink
I dont think a perfect count exists. At least that someone could employ.

Ever notice how a tennis player looks down at his racquet whenever he is losing? That is me with a count after losing a session. lol.

This one is so simple and has a high SCORE. It's like seeking permission from Don S and other competitors to drop the 2. Mine involves half pointa. So I posed the question to you thinking in terms of your elimation process.
kewlj
kewlj
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April 5th, 2021 at 5:23:46 PM permalink
As a proponent of level 1 counts and hi-lo in particular, I have always had the position that for most players, anything else quickly becomes overkill. Maybe a level 2, but after that it is sharply diminished return for the effort.

But, I have always made the exception, saying for 99.9%. Because most have access to shoe games and a little double deck. Moses, you are that .1%, because you play where you play and single deck games. So I have come to accept your obsession with finding a higher quality count. I mean a little higher playing efficiency, and you could cut down spread to almost, not quite, but almost, nothing, which would be huge in single deck, I would think.

The only thing is at this point, I fear you might be throwing away a really good match for you, the near perfect mate, someone reliable, a decent person, inside and out, loyal and loving, who has served you well, in search of that perfection that may or may not even exist.

For me Hi-lo is my perfect mate because I play mostly 6 deck games with a little bit of double deck. I can and do even expand a little when playing double deck and track aces separately. heck, sometimes I even track another card unintentionally, almost by mistake. say a player draws a couple 5's, and I have a 5 and dealer turns over a 5. Mental note. Hey the 5's are depleted which is a good thing!

I honestly don't know what your looking for? is it about making money as it is for me, or is it some kind of quest for the holy grail (perfect count).
moses
moses
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April 5th, 2021 at 9:41:56 PM permalink
My count simply takes Wong Halves and give the tag of the 2 to the 7. This way Im only counting two half point tags. The 5 and 9. SCORE is actually higher forr my game.

Now Bosox said a long time ago the one must play aggressive. For most, it's a matter of dropping back on TC. I wanted a higher percentage of large bets and a count that could gain more mileage out of a dealer with pen right on the cusp.

So I dropped the 3 to .5 and added .5 to the 6. I know Ive lost you all by now.

But I thank you for all the wisdom. I can incorporate some of that into my game. I know it's not much use to you. Pretty much what I do is in direct opposition to what multi players employ.

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