Nimadamus
Nimadamus
Joined: Jan 16, 2016
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January 3rd, 2021 at 10:39:10 PM permalink
I am an avid blackjack player and have been playing for over 20 years. Just recently I started taking up serious card counting. I have had some good results lately, but just today I dropped about half my bankroll after dropping to -1200, getting it all back and getting up maybe 80 bucks or so, then some weird people at the table starting annoying me and it went downhill. Isnt it amazing how it always seems like if we are feeling down or negative, the luck is sooooo shitty. Anyway, some questions for my fellow blackjacking redditors.



Should I consistently play one hand, or start with 2 and stick with it unless the TC dips to -1 or worse?



2) How do you deal with negative/toxic people and have you ever noticed how it seems like negative variance hits when you are feeling negative/angry/nervous/irrritated? Would love to hear your thoughts on this.



3} Would you suggest playing by yourself or with others? From my experience it seems variance is higher when playing by yourself. When the TC is good it seems that the dealer busts more often when they should, but when its just me multi-handing, crazy stuff happens.



4) How much is enough to start a blackjack card counting career? Lets say minimum bet at the table is $15, and blackjacks pay 6 to 5.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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January 3rd, 2021 at 10:56:05 PM permalink
I'd have to find some way to send my bankroll into the stratosphere from nothing at this point, a years worth of $2,000 a month stimulus checks might help.

I'd play Spanish 21 before I'd play 6:5 BJ, but Spanish 21 may have disappeared from Vegas for some reason, maybe it got deported.

I'm guessing you need a 1000 bet bankroll, and that's if you're flat betting, not doing the crazy betting seen in card counting.

If betting 2 hands, you'd need at least a 1500-2000 bet bankroll, and you'd probably have to bet double the table minimum; so you're $25 bets suddenly turn into two $50 bets. I'm told if you want to bet 3 hands, you might have to bet 5X the table minimum, so you'd need three $125 bets.

I get that card counters like to raise their bets and spread to 2 spots when the count is good, but pit bosses will kick people out in a New York minute for such moves.
WTflush
WTflush
Joined: Jan 27, 2020
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January 4th, 2021 at 3:14:20 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I'd have to find some way to send my bankroll into the stratosphere from nothing at this point, a years worth of $2,000 a month stimulus checks might help.

I'd play Spanish 21 before I'd play 6:5 BJ, but Spanish 21 may have disappeared from Vegas for some reason, maybe it got deported.

I'm guessing you need a 1000 bet bankroll, and that's if you're flat betting, not doing the crazy betting seen in card counting.

If betting 2 hands, you'd need at least a 1500-2000 bet bankroll, and you'd probably have to bet double the table minimum; so you're $25 bets suddenly turn into two $50 bets. I'm told if you want to bet 3 hands, you might have to bet 5X the table minimum, so you'd need three $125 bets.

I get that card counters like to raise their bets and spread to 2 spots when the count is good, but pit bosses will kick people out in a New York minute for such moves.



I can't tell if you're serious or being sarcastic but you always seem to comment on these card counting threads with advice when you clearly do not understand the subject at hand.


Quote: Nimadamus

I am an avid blackjack player and have been playing for over 20 years. Just recently I started taking up serious card counting. I have had some good results lately, but just today I dropped about half my bankroll after dropping to -1200, getting it all back and getting up maybe 80 bucks or so, then some weird people at the table starting annoying me and it went downhill. Isnt it amazing how it always seems like if we are feeling down or negative, the luck is sooooo shitty. Anyway, some questions for my fellow blackjacking redditors.



Should I consistently play one hand, or start with 2 and stick with it unless the TC dips to -1 or worse?



2) How do you deal with negative/toxic people and have you ever noticed how it seems like negative variance hits when you are feeling negative/angry/nervous/irrritated? Would love to hear your thoughts on this.



3} Would you suggest playing by yourself or with others? From my experience it seems variance is higher when playing by yourself. When the TC is good it seems that the dealer busts more often when they should, but when its just me multi-handing, crazy stuff happens.



4) How much is enough to start a blackjack card counting career? Lets say minimum bet at the table is $15, and blackjacks pay 6 to 5.



If these are questions you need to ask you are a LONG way away from being able to play blackjack profitably, much less for a living. I don't mean that as an insult, i'm trying to save you money. You have a lot of studying to do and many sims to run before you should "invest" another penny into the game.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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Thanks for this post from:
OnceDear
January 4th, 2021 at 7:32:50 AM permalink
Yikes! 2 and 4 show you are not near what is needed to make a living at BJ. Whatever Ďtoxicí players do at a table DOES NOT affect your results. If you think it matters you are sunk. And with the rarest of exceptions, you will never beat 6/5 BJ. If you are playing such a game you are toast.
fantom
fantom
Joined: Dec 19, 2020
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January 4th, 2021 at 8:04:23 AM permalink
I'd suggest that you read Romes articles about counting cards available in the Articles section of this forum. They are a good place to start.

One absolute rule is NEVER play 6:5. The biggest benefit you have at the table is a 3:2 blackjack. When counting, a high true count is when you will have the most money out, and it's the time when a blackjack is more likely. Reducing the payout to 6:5 will hurt the most when it REALLY matters.

I would not start with two hands, and in fact almost never play two hands. At a true count of -2 - take a walk. But try to do it after two losses in a row, or make a point of saying that's why you are staying out.

My experience is that card counting is easy - but only after you have spent a LOT of time practicing, be it at home or at a table in a real casino. Be prepared for losses that have nothing to do with the math but rather with your inexperience in dealing with all the distractions that cause you to lose count. My biggest mistake was in trying to regain the true count and estimating it more in my favor than it actually was. At least that's my excuse for losses that "shouldn't happen" because I was so certain that the count was in my favor. Distractions are part of the environment. The toughest thing to do is to tune them all out while not making it look like it.

The game is on a razor-thin edge in order to get an advantage that you can exploit. Don't expect any large windfalls unless you are willing to "invest" a lot of money in high-limit games ($100 minimum, at least). With that large a spread (1 to 6 units = $100 - $600) you need to bring a lot of money to the business.

Other people and how they play has NOTHING to do with your success or failure. You will see players "take the dealer's bust card" or make other moves that you are certain have effected the outcome, but you will recall the bad results far more often than the good ones, and the other players will act in your favor as many times as they don't - you just won't remember those. Over time players making mistakes will lose more than you will. The math guarantees that, but most poor players are only there "for some fun" and expect to lose.

Negative variance is not cause by "bad vibes" or toxic people. It's all in the cards. As far as I am concerned: oh - there are other people at the table? My play is going to be based on what basic strategy and the count tell me it should be. I prefer playing at third base, so many times players will be upset if my play "effects" the dealer's outcome. Too bad.

I wish you luck. It will not be easy if you want to be successful in counting, and it gets more difficult every day. But in fact, luck has nothing to do with it.
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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January 4th, 2021 at 8:19:41 AM permalink
There are other players at the table? I've never noticed.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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January 4th, 2021 at 8:25:31 AM permalink
As someone else mentioned, I would want at least 1000 minimum bets in my bankroll. The biggest problem most beginning card counters make is over betting their bankroll.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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January 4th, 2021 at 8:34:45 AM permalink
Quote: Nimadamus

I am an avid blackjack player and have been playing for over 20 years. Just recently I started taking up serious card counting. I have had some good results lately, but just today I dropped about half my bankroll after dropping to -1200, getting it all back and getting up maybe 80 bucks or so, then some weird people at the table starting annoying me and it went downhill. Isnt it amazing how it always seems like if we are feeling down or negative, the luck is sooooo shitty.

It's confirmation bias or your negative feelings make you play sh*tty. Most likely it's simple confirmation bias.

P.S. Are you staying hydrated?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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January 4th, 2021 at 8:52:59 AM permalink
Quote: Nimadamus

then some weird people at the table starting annoying me and it went downhill.

2) How do you deal with negative/toxic people and have you ever noticed how it seems like negative variance hits when you are feeling negative/angry/nervous/irrritated? Would love to hear your thoughts on this.



3} Would you suggest playing by yourself or with others? From my experience it seems variance is higher when playing by yourself. When the TC is good it seems that the dealer busts more often when they should, but when its just me multi-handing, crazy stuff happens



Donít let anyone ever tell you that the same outcomes would have happened with more than just you. People can clearly tell when an outcome would have been beneficial to them when another player sits in and it goes downhill for you and uphill for them.

When the cards come out you can see what your hand would have been had that player not sat at the table and started to say it was rigged or whatever they did to make your mood go south.

I donít know how to card count but I do know that another player sitting at your table really does effect the outcomes that you will receive.

There was a blackjack algorithm that was used on a digital blackjack machine which gave every person at the ďtableĒ their own show of cards because of that same reason. You are effecting the person in front of you and their chances to receive certain cards when you are playing a physical deck of cards.

People are actually coolers when it comes to blackjack I canít state that enough
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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January 4th, 2021 at 9:09:08 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Donít let anyone ever tell you that the same outcomes would have happened with more than just you. People can clearly tell when an outcome would have been beneficial to them when another player sits in and it goes downhill for you and uphill for them.

When the cards come out you can see what your hand would have been had that player not sat at the table and started to say it was rigged or whatever they did to make your mood go south.

I donít know how to card count but I do know that another player sitting at your table really does effect the outcomes that you will receive.

There was a blackjack algorithm that was used on a digital blackjack machine which gave every person at the ďtableĒ their own show of cards because of that same reason. You are effecting the person in front of you and their chances to receive certain cards when you are playing a physical deck of cards.

People are actually coolers when it comes to blackjack I canít state that enough




If you play one on one with the dealer, the dealer will get 50% of the BJs. If you play with three other players, the dealer will now get 20% of the BJs. Absolutely true from a mathematical perspective but utterly meaningless to your bottom line. Just like your entire post.

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