Cardtographer12
Cardtographer12
Joined: Dec 9, 2020
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December 9th, 2020 at 12:56:01 PM permalink
Hi, I'm new to AP in blackjack and have a decent bankroll, but to be honest to start out I'm not overly concerned with RoR to start out. I've read a lot about how rules affect the game and can seriously impact your EV as a card counter. I know not to play 6:5 obviously, no side bets, little/no cover play, etc. But whenever I read about APs playing blackjack they're using bet spreads of $5 to $200-300, and better rules.

My local casino has 3:2, 8 deck, H17 with TWENTY FIVE dollar table min at the best case scenario. This is fine, its not great, but my question is it worth it at that point to just go to the high limit tables with 2-4 deck (depends on the day/how busy they are), 3:2. S17, 100$ minimums, or am I still going to be losing EV that way since my minimum bets will be a lot higher?

Also, for future reference, is there a way to simulate these rules myself without having to buy expensive bankroll/EV calculation software?

EDIT: Pen at $25 table is ~70%, high limit is roughly 75-80%.
Last edited by: Cardtographer12 on Dec 9, 2020
unJon
unJon
Joined: Jul 1, 2018
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December 9th, 2020 at 1:23:57 PM permalink
Hard to respond without knowing PEN.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Cardtographer12
Cardtographer12
Joined: Dec 9, 2020
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December 9th, 2020 at 1:28:07 PM permalink
25$ tables its around 70% pen, high limits its a bit higher at around 75-80%
theOmega623
theOmega623
Joined: Oct 30, 2014
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December 9th, 2020 at 3:55:55 PM permalink
Quote: Cardtographer12

Hi, I'm new to AP in blackjack and have a decent bankroll, but to be honest to start out I'm not overly concerned with RoR to start out. I've read a lot about how rules affect the game and can seriously impact your EV as a card counter. I know not to play 6:5 obviously, no side bets, little/no cover play, etc. But whenever I read about APs playing blackjack they're using bet spreads of $5 to $200-300, and better rules.

My local casino has 3:2, 8 deck, H17 with TWENTY FIVE dollar table min at the best case scenario. This is fine, its not great, but my question is it worth it at that point to just go to the high limit tables with 2-4 deck (depends on the day/how busy they are), 3:2. S17, 100$ minimums, or am I still going to be losing EV that way since my minimum bets will be a lot higher?

Also, for future reference, is there a way to simulate these rules myself without having to buy expensive bankroll/EV calculation software?

EDIT: Pen at $25 table is ~70%, high limit is roughly 75-80%.



Welcome to the forum! So to jump right in, 8D H17 is a terrible game even with decent pen, for many reasons I would strongly advise against playing this game (especially at $25 min). I'm aware that's probably not what you want to hear, I too started out playing 8D H17 games. Unfortunately most aspiring card counters typically have to either travel or relocate if they wish to beat blackjack for any significant amount of money. I would be happy to run some simulations for you, but trust me when I say investing in software such as CVCX is well worth it. If you would like to get a basic grasp in general of what kind of EV different games, systems, and bet spreads generate I recommend visiting Blackjack Apprenticeship website. You can find a ton of useful information for free.

Hope this helps!
- Omega
Last edited by: theOmega623 on Dec 9, 2020
WTflush
WTflush
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December 9th, 2020 at 4:05:48 PM permalink
I wouldn't even consider playing 8D with a $25 min. If they have double deck in HL with great pen that's obviously a good game but at $100 min. you better be starting with a six figure bankroll. Go check out different casinos, traveling comes with the territory counting cards. I personally would stick to double deck games until you are well practiced in keeping the running count in a live casino environment. Definitely buy cvcx first, I think it's $100? One mistake counting costs you more than that.
Cardtographer12
Cardtographer12
Joined: Dec 9, 2020
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December 9th, 2020 at 4:11:19 PM permalink
Ok, thanks for the advice! What would your thoughts be then on high limit tables in my case? Still not really worth it? Or ok? The rules seem a lot more favorable, with 2-4 decks, better pen, and S17. The only caveat obviously is the 100$ mins. I dont know if its worth shopping around for other casinos though because the next closest is over 2 hours further away and I dont know what rules they have in place there either.
theOmega623
theOmega623
Joined: Oct 30, 2014
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December 9th, 2020 at 4:27:55 PM permalink
Quote: Cardtographer12

Ok, thanks for the advice! What would your thoughts be then on high limit tables in my case? Still not really worth it? Or ok? The rules seem a lot more favorable, with 2-4 decks, better pen, and S17. The only caveat obviously is the 100$ mins. I dont know if its worth shopping around for other casinos though because the next closest is over 2 hours further away and I dont know what rules they have in place there either.



You're quite welcome! The 2D S17 games with 70% pen are among the best blackjack games you can find these days, however at $100 min that would take quite the bankroll. Assuming perfect play with IL18 and a spread of 1-5 or better, you're looking at $100k to be on the safe side. Of course you can go with less, but it's risky!
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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December 9th, 2020 at 7:39:21 PM permalink
I think there are a few other facts the audience will need to know before giving better answers.

1. If you get backed off from this casino do you have other options?
2. Are you trying to do this for a living, or to supplement a regular job?
3. If you lose your ‘bankroll’, do you have the ability to get a new one?
4. What spread will your casino tolerate at the $25 game? At the $100 game?

Welcome to the forum and good luck!
Cardtographer12
Cardtographer12
Joined: Dec 9, 2020
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December 9th, 2020 at 7:42:34 PM permalink
1. Next closest casino is another two hours further away, so ideally i would not want to get backed off.
2. Supplement.
3. Yes, easily.
4. 1:20 at 25$ table, can do more but it would probably bring on too much heat, probably only 1:8 at the 100$ game.
WTflush
WTflush
Joined: Jan 27, 2020
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December 9th, 2020 at 8:31:14 PM permalink
Quote: Cardtographer12

1. Next closest casino is another two hours further away, so ideally i would not want to get backed off.
2. Supplement.
3. Yes, easily.
4. 1:20 at 25$ table, can do more but it would probably bring on too much heat, probably only 1:8 at the 100$ game.



If you are playing a winning game, especially at those stakes and spreads you will be backed off in no time (likely within minutes or a couple hours) and have to move along to the next casino anyway. Might as well start somewhere with lower limits and see how it goes before you commit that much money to it. Do you have at least $100,000 you are willing to risk? I'm assuming not if you don't want to spend $95 for software.

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