racquet
racquet
Joined: Dec 31, 2014
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September 18th, 2020 at 1:21:20 PM permalink
I know that this site promotes, or at least allows advertising for, a variety of online gambling sites. Assuming that all of these sites are at least honest and legitimate, in that they transact business honestly and don't keep your winnings, the obvious question from an AP perspective is...

Can any of the games be counted?

The obvious answer is that all of the games deal from an "infinite deck" or reshuffle after every hand or round, so the answer is NO. It's perfectly "legal" to do those things. just like it's "legal" to pay 6:5 for a blackjack and limit the number of times that you can split pairs, even if there are "moral" issues at stake (it's a sin to only pay 6:5).

I have faith that the sites advertised here do business in such a way that they have been recommended by the Wizard, but I can't imagine that any online game, anywhere, recommended, approved, licensed or legal, anywhere, would deal from (at worst) a real six deck shoe with some reasonable (more than 75%) penetration.

Even sites advertising "live dealers", even if using a "real" deck, can't offer a game where the house edge could ever turn in the player's favor.

Right?

"Recommended" means "They won't cheat you." But in reality, they're for civilians only.

I suppose if there were such a site, there's no way a) it would be known to the general public and b) that such a fact would be common knowledge here.

It's just that I see all these come-ons with a "welcome bonus", "wizardbonus" and such, and wonder about it. I should know better than to even ask.
rumba434
rumba434
Joined: May 13, 2020
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September 18th, 2020 at 4:40:21 PM permalink
Playtech games are all 8 deck 50% penetration, single split, dealer peeks on aces on tables where dealer gets hole card*. I'm not an advantage player so I don't know or care if that can be beaten.


*some tables don't deal dealer hole card, in this case doubles will be taken by dealer on Ace up BJs. If dealer gets a 10 up BJ, doubles are refunded on all tables. The base part of splits never refunded but the double part of splits is, in the same way as the main hand.
Last edited by: rumba434 on Sep 18, 2020
racquet
racquet
Joined: Dec 31, 2014
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September 18th, 2020 at 4:56:47 PM permalink
Either one by itself is a deal-breaker.

Why would anyone play that game? You might be able to justify those rules in the real world, either for the comps or because you're out for an evening and don't really care about the expense since you're with friends or want the thrill and excitement (such as they are) of an actual casino.

But eight deck, 50%, sitting in front of your computer all by yourself, giving them actual, real money. What comps could there possibly be? Free play?

I think a CSM game with, otherwise, the same set of other rules, would pay better.

"I don't care if it can be beaten." Yet here you are.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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September 18th, 2020 at 9:30:23 PM permalink
Quote: racquet

Either one by itself is a deal-breaker.

Why would anyone play that game? You might be able to justify those rules in the real world, either for the comps or because you're out for an evening and don't really care about the expense since you're with friends or want the thrill and excitement (such as they are) of an actual casino.

But eight deck, 50%, sitting in front of your computer all by yourself, giving them actual, real money. What comps could there possibly be? Free play?

I think a CSM game with, otherwise, the same set of other rules, would pay better.

"I don't care if it can be beaten." Yet here you are.

This has been discussed like, a million times. The spread you would need and the variance you would have to endure to play an 8D 50% PEN at a positive score would be mind numbing for the minute amount of return. You'd need like a $5-$500 spread, $100k bankroll, and doing that you might make like $25/hour... don't forget about the $10k swings either way per day I'd assume.

Most sites don't give much in regards of FP/etc. Some are better than others, but I don't think many of the main "most trusted" sites do.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
rumba434
rumba434
Joined: May 13, 2020
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September 19th, 2020 at 9:13:33 AM permalink
Quote:

"I don't care if it can be beaten." Yet here you are.



What I meant was I'm just playing for fun, no way I'm trying to game the system. I'm not a regular here but occasionally check; I saw you asking how online casinos worked and just described Playtech's. There's no way I'm counting cards or deviating much away from the £5 minimum bet though.
racquet
racquet
Joined: Dec 31, 2014
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September 19th, 2020 at 3:21:24 PM permalink
Quote: rumba434

Quote:

"I don't care if it can be beaten." Yet here you are.



What I meant was I'm just playing for fun, no way I'm trying to game the system. I'm not a regular here but occasionally check; I saw you asking how online casinos worked and just described Playtech's. There's no way I'm counting cards or deviating much away from the £5 minimum bet though.



Got it. For the recreational or sometime player just in it for fun, a CSM game, eight deck, whatever penetration, none of that matters since you're not looking to turn a profit. I play roulette, very occasionally, for the same purpose. The most enjoyment I get from that is listening to the "professional" roulette player telling his date how he does it.
racquet
racquet
Joined: Dec 31, 2014
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September 21st, 2020 at 7:44:15 AM permalink
So "recommended" means "honest" or "legitimate" only, with whatever odds in effect being what they should be, but no ability to work the game to your advantage from an AP perspective.

That's fine. Makes sense. These sites can't survive if they put out a negative HE game.

Just wondering... Does WOV do any kind of analysis as to the accuracy of their games? An infinite deck game with certain rules is predicted to have a certain house edge. Do you check the site out to make sure that they pay whatever that particular set of rules would anticipate? A slight "adjustment" in the code could improve their profitability and only a mathematician would be able to figure it out.

A "WOV recommended" badge would be a pretty nice come-on. My respect for Mike would be enough to make me trust them over other sites. They must pay for this.

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