South Point Blackjack

Are there any professional, semi-professional, or just serious blackjack players in Las Vegas or that play Las Vegas regularly that have South Point in their regular rotation of games?

I am not accusing South Point of cheating, as I have done with a couple other casinos over the years, but I have experienced some pretty odd results over the last month which has caught my attention and I would at least like to compare experiences with others players.

Specifically, it is the $25 minimum double deck games. Hand shuffled, so there is no issue with shuffle machines. I have only recently started playing this game at South Point as for a number of years South Point has been too sweaty and I haven't been able to get much play in. So my 6 sessions this month have all resulted in 10+ max bet losses. That is pretty unusual for the short sessions that I play. We are talking a little over 25 grand loss for the month for 6 fairly short sessions.

Here is the way it has gone for these 6 sessions. Almost every time through the cards, the count goes positive, leading to my larger bets. I just am not winning my share of those high count bets....at least over this period. I am not channeling my inner Zenking, but it is beginning to feel like the deck is rigged with more small cards and less 10's and aces which would cause high counts, but you won't win those those high count bets, just more small cards, especially on your double downs. Now again, 6 sessions is a very small sample size and I am not ready to accuse anyone of anything...I just want to compare with other players at this point.

One other odd thing. As I said, South Point has become extremely sweaty for me over recent years. They almost never allow players to play unrated. But during this month of sessions, the pit critters have all been suspiciously accommodating. No one has had a problem with me playing unrated.

Again, I am just looking for experiences from other players, since the re-opening, to compare experiences at this point.

edit: anyone not comfortable responding publicly, please feel free to contact me privately,

Same dealer every time or different dealers? Over the course of a break?

Do they wash the cards at a particular time? Do they use (no, I am not THAT guy) pre-shuffled or "used" decks?

I'd make a point to arrive at shift change or when they open a table for the first time. Could you send in someone else to observe the open?

Absent some type of slight-of-hand on the part of the dealer, it has to be missing 10-value cards from the deck. What else could it be?

You definitely want to be there for them opening and spreading the cards. Perhaps it's different now with Covid no-touch, but in the past, they typically changed cards on DD every 2-4 hours.

It certainly seems odd that Southpoint didn't toss you early. Although I haven't played Vegas in a while, Southpoint is up there with EC and TI in terms of sweat.

Quote: 21forme

You definitely want to be there for them opening and spreading the cards. Perhaps it's different now with Covid no-touch, but in the past, they typically changed cards on DD every 2-4 hours.

It certainly seems odd that Southpoint didn't toss you early. Although I haven't played Vegas in a while, Southpoint is up there with EC and TI in terms of sweat.

South Point is one of many places where the players are no longer touching the cards. The Double deck game is dealt face up now. That MAY mean they are changing the cards less frequently. I am not going to make it a priority right now, but at some point I will spend a few hours late morning / noonish looking for opening a table.

Part of my issue is that I have bumped up my stakes since I returned to playing, as I am trying to accumulate more EV while playing less (something I have spent my whole career doing the opposite). So playing higher stakes with a volatile game like double deck is going to mean bigger swings. I don't want to jump to any conclusion, but it is just starting to feel like a little more than just bigger swings and variance. That's why I am seeking other players similar experiences. Understandably, I am getting more private responses than public, which is fine.

I've had unbelievable bad luck with my software home games. I should start screen recording them with the X-Box Capture feature in Windows 10.
Losing 25 unit sessions 3 times in a row is really disheartening, but these games like to remove all hope. I'd probably have a 20-30 unit win goal in BJ or Baccarat, and a 10-20 unit win goal in craps.

I did have a time when all my losses were on a positive count, all my wins were on a negative count, and a neutral count came out near even. This was like over a few thousand hands. A few thousand hands later the positive count came up to $0 wins, the negative count lost half its wins, and the neutral count gained a lot. But I don't bet like a card counter so your results would vary.

If you're that concerned why not just flat bet for a few hours. You should collect enough data to set your mind at ease. It won't cost you much, and may buy you some longevity.

Quote: sabre

If you're that concerned why not just flat bet for a few hours. You should collect enough data to set your mind at ease. It won't cost you much, and may buy you some longevity.

Maybe they only activate the beast mode when someone is varying their bets sufficiently.
Six sessions seems like a pretty small sampling.

Quote: billryan

Maybe they only activate the beast mode when someone is varying their bets sufficiently.
Six sessions seems like a pretty small sampling.

As I stated in original post, hand shuffled game. No ASM or beast mode. I KNOW how to deal with that now.

Have you checked msgs

Just to clarify my concerns, here are my results for the last month or so, for the 10 double deck games currently in my rotation.

Casino 1: +4637.50
Casino 2: +2250.00
Casino 3: +6125.00
Casino 4: +1162.50
Casino 5: +775.00
Casino 6: +5400.00
Casino 7: +1442.50
Casino 8: +4125.00
Casino 9: -197.50
Casino 10: -25,262.50

Small sample size and all, see why this got my attention? lol

I have received a number of private responses, sharing experiences of dealers dealing seconds (not specific to this casino). I don't believe that is what is happening as these double deck games are dealt from a shoe face up, so the players aren't touching the cards. I'll call this covid style. lol I also believe I have had 6 different dealers for my 6 sessions, so it is unlikely all are dealing seconds.

I am going to check out table openings in the next few days, when they open the tables late morning, just to see if they are spreading the cards as 21forme suggested, as some places have stopped spreading cards to save time, which cheating or not, I don't like. It compromises the transparency / integrity of the games which is vital.

So I will report back after I check the openings of a few tables, but, I want to be clear, I am not alleging cheating at this point, and am not pursuing anything, nor looking to prove anything, other than my own curiosity. It might just be a whole lot of negative variance lumped into a small sample size of 6 sessions. But I think I will take a break from that game for a while. A lot of fish in the sea. :)

Go back to the first 8 casinos and skip the last two. But it looks like the mob gave you an offer you couldn't refuse to take a dive at casino #10. There's also the subject of card mechanics who are knock-out dealers. Playing heads-up could also put you on a fast track to a losing streak too.

It takes some balls to do it, but if you spill your drink all over the cards, they will have to replace them on your schedule.

Get someone else to do it, so as to maintain your cover and not draw the boys upstairs to a close review of the video when it happened, as well as other videos in which you may appear.

Damn!

I cancelled my trip to Vegas last Thursday because I am worried about getting Covid on the plane or in the Uber from the airport.

For the right fee I would have been happy to be the stumblebum spilling that drink.

Although if they read these comments, they're already watching. Wheels within wheels: they STOP the cheating for a while since they now know you're on to them! There'll be a grassy knoll and a second spitter in this story before it ends.

Quote: billryan

It takes some balls to do it, but if you spill your drink all over the cards, they will have to replace them on your schedule.

Well I didn't spill a drink, but i did just leave SP where I watched them open 3 double deck tables. They did spread the cards as normal.

I never said they were cheating so I don't think I have to apologize or admit I was wrong. I simply said that I found my results unusual. I am playing higher stakes of late and maybe I haven't adjusted to the higher swings (variance) that can occur with such stakes.

I am still taking a break from SP. As I always say the beauty of Las Vegas is quantity which means if a player is uncomfortable with any game, for any reason, there are other places to fish.

Thanks to those that shared their experiences and thoughts both publicly and privately.

"Since we've been discovered, we should bring back legitimate decks for a while whenever we open the table. After all, this guy is not ZenKing."

Did you do any sims in CVCX to see how unusual the results were?