Sette e Mezzo strategy

Quote: ksdjdj

Here is a link to the help/info page of another version of this game (see below)

Thanks. Is your interpretation that there is no special "Royal" hand. In other words W+0.5 would push against 2+5+0.5, where W = King of Denari.

Quote: ksdjdj

...https://www.lottomatica.it/aiuto/casino/sette-e-mezzo...According to the "info page" link above, the RTP is 99.8274%...

I got a very similar figure (99.787%) where the player MUST hit, no "Royal" concept, Ties 5-5 standoff, single deck.

btw there's a description of it here - https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=https://www.cavallore.it/index.php/giochi/33-sette-e-mezzo&prev=search as a home game which does look fun, say, with the family. You bet 10-50c AFTER you've seen your face down card. Also anyone can burn an initial 4. The rest is like Californian Blackjack: single deck, drawn cards are face up and the dealer acts last.

Quote: Wizard

Thanks. Is your interpretation that there is no special "Royal" hand. In other words W+0.5 would push against 2+5+0.5, where W = King of Denari.

There seems to be no special Royal hand for the version in my previous post, as you can see by the image below it was a push against the dealer.

Note: the dealer's second card is a King of Diamonds (so, equivalent to King of Denari )





I am pretty sure it would have also resulted in a push***, if the hands were reversed (but a hand like that hasn't come up for me yet).

***: I will play-test the game tomorrow morning (East Coast, Australia time) to make sure that this is the case.

Quote: charliepatrick

I got a very similar figure (99.787%) where the player MUST hit, no "Royal" concept, Ties 5-5 standoff, single deck.

Charlie, would you stand on 5-5 under the rule where a 5-5 is a push? Any other strategy changes compared to the Playtech rules?

Quote: Wizard

Charlie, would you stand on 5-5 under the rule where a 5-5 is a push? Any other strategy changes compared to the Playtech rules?

I would say you would if the dealer must stand on five.

Remaining Deck:
1-4
2-4
3-4
4-4
5-2
6-4
7-4
.5-11
W-1

So, you have 20/38 probability to win instantly v. 18/38 to lose. Hitting would have a positive expected value whereas standing would have an EV of zero. Some multi-card 5's would become either a stand, or possibly neutral.

Quote: Wizard

Charlie, would you stand on 5-5 under the rule where a 5-5 is a push? Any other strategy changes compared to the Playtech rules?

Sometimes you hit.

If you hit you win if you get a Picture, Ace, 2, or Joker. There were originally 20 of these in the deck (11+4+4+1).
If you hit you lose if you get a 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7. There were also originally 20 of these in the deck (4+4+4+4+4).

The dealer has a 5, this is a high card. So if your hand has more or equal high cards than low ones then you should hit. If you have one more low card than high cards, then it doesn't matter. If you have two or more low cards than high ones, then you stand.

(P = Picture, A = Ace).
Thus you hit with 5, A4, 32; are indifferent with AA3 or PP4, and stand on the rest.

D=5 T=05.0 P=PPPPPPPPPP St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=PPPPPP2 St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=PPPP3 St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=PP4 Hit (H:.000 000 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=PP22 St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=APPPPPPPP St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=APPPP2 St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=APP3 St (H:-.028 571 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=AAPPPPPP St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=AAPP2 St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=AAAPPPP St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=AAAAPP St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=AAA2 St (H:-.085 714 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=AA3 Hit (H:.000 000 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=A4 Hit (H:.027 027 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=A22 St (H:-.055 556 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=5 Hit (H:.052 632 St:.000 000)
D=5 T=05.0 P=32 Hit (H:.027 027 St:.000 000)

Quote: charliepatrick

I got a very similar figure (99.787%) where the player MUST hit, no "Royal" concept, Ties 5-5 standoff, single deck.

I'm getting 99.73%.

To compare:
Charlie: 99.79%
Lottomatica: 99.83%.

I find the return is a bit higher hitting 5 vs. 5.

Charlie, is your figure based on a total-dependent basic strategy, or do you consider the composition of the hand?

Quote: ksdjdj

May 18th, 2020 at 5:03:21 AM
(snip)***: I will play-test the game tomorrow morning (East Coast, Australia time) to make sure that this is the case.

I just got this hand which ended in a push, so I am certain that there are no "automatic winners" for getting a "Royal hand" (W+ 0.5) for this (non-Playtech) version of the game (image of hand below).

Quote: ksdjdj

I just got this hand which ended in a push, so I am certain that there are no "automatic winners" for getting a "Royal hand" (W+ 0.5) for this (non-Playtech) version of the game (image of hand below).

I don't dispute that. In my "lottomatica" simulation there is no hand above a 7.5.

Quote: Wizard

I'm getting 99.73%.

To compare:
Charlie: 99.79%
Lottomatica: 99.83%.

I find the return is a bit higher hitting 5 vs. 5.

Charlie, is your figure based on a total-dependent basic strategy, or do you consider the composition of the hand?

I thought it took all the cards into consideration, that's why it looks at all combinations of player's cards, then works out the dealer hands, and uses recursion to work out hands to hit.

The stand EV does use the exact combinations, however I can see the "Hit" figures for hands over 5-cards are wrong. This is because the code was based on a game where the player could only have 5-cards; so looking at the probability of drawing different ranks based on how the remaining deck looks, it only subtracted the first five player cards. Thus it needs to look at all the player's cards. In the case of 5vs5 it doesn't make a difference to the decision, but in other cases it might.

So I'll change the code and see how this affects the end numbers.

Here is a first draft of my Sette e Mezzo page. I welcome all comments. I plan to add the Playtech side bets.

Quote: rumba434

Note you only qualify for the Mano di poker bet if you take your second card, so if you had say a 6 of cups and the dealer a 5 of cups you're basically sacrificing a won hand for a hand with a good chance of busting to try to win the sidebet.

Do you mean the Mano di Poker hand is a push if you stand on one card?

Also, is J-Q-K off-suit a straight?

Quote: charliepatrick

...I can see the [old] "Hit" figures for hands over 5-cards are wrong. This is because the code was based on a game where the player could only have 5-cards; so looking at the probability of drawing different ranks based on how the remaining deck looks, it only subtracted the first five player cards. Thus it needs to look at all the player's cards. In the case of 5vs5 it doesn't make a difference to the decision, but in other cases it might.

So I'll change the code and see how this affects the end numbers.

It only makes a minor difference so I get 0.734% and 99.780% for the two games discussed earlier.

Quote: Wizard

Do you mean the Mano di Poker hand is a push if you stand on one card?

Also, is J-Q-K off-suit a straight?

No. You forfeit your bet if you choose to stand on one card. J-C-K is a straight.

System keeps removing this URL, not sure why but I've broken it. In the Mano di poker screen you can see I lost the bet and only 2 cards are shown instead of 3. Other people on the table did take a card.

https:// www.dropbox.com/s/qf94vmp8q2b0lrm/Clipboard040.jpg

And here I win and you can see that all 3cards appear.

https:// www.dropbox.com/s/jdjoclb524mdiyu/Clipboard044.jpg

Quote: rumba434

No. You forfeit your bet if you choose to stand on one card.

That is awful. Terrible for the player and awful game design. If they asked me for advice, I would have added a dummy card to complete the three-card hand.

Quote:

J-C-K is a straight.

Thank you.

Quote: Wizard

Here is a first draft of my Sette e Mezzo page. I welcome all comments. I plan to add the Playtech side bets.

Wiz,

I guess I'm missing something, but shouldn't the Player Royals (the one wild card combined with either one of the four 7's or one of the other 11 faces) probability be given by

2*1*(4+11)/(40*39) = 1/52 = 0.0192

with, of course, the same probability for the Dealer Royals.

How did I you get 1/60?

Dog Hand

Quote: DogHand

Quote: Wizard

Here is a first draft of my Sette e Mezzo page. I welcome all comments. I plan to add the Playtech side bets.

Wiz,

I guess I'm missing something, but shouldn't the Player Royals (the one wild card combined with either one of the four 7's or one of the other 11 faces) probability be given by

2*1*(4+11)/(40*39) = 1/52 = 0.0192

with, of course, the same probability for the Dealer Royals.

How did I you get 1/60?

Dog Hand

If the player's first card is a 7, he won't know what the next card is and won't hit.

The probability is pr(wild first card)*pr(0.5 or 7 points next card) + pr(0.5 first card)*pr(wild second card) = (1/40)*(15/39) + (11/40)*(1/39) = 1.67%.

I'vefound another version of 7 and 1/2 online. It can be found at 1xslot and its rules quite different from those discussed here (dealer's card is face down, no forced hit for the player, player can double on the first move, dealer wins ties, etc.). I quote them below if Wizard or someone else is interested:

The game uses a 40-card deck with four suits.
Place a bet. The initial stake is determined before the start of a game.
At the start of the game, two cards are dealt: one to you (face up) and one to the dealer (face down). Next, you must decide whether or not you want to draw more cards. After that, it is the dealer's turn.
Take one card at a time by clicking "Hit" until the total value of your hand is as close to 7.5 as possible. You can choose to stop at any time by clicking "Stand".
The "Hit x2" and "Stand x2" buttons allow you to double your bet during your first move, and to either take another card or stop.
Your aim is to score more points than the dealer, but not to exceed 7.5 points.
If you win, your bet will be paid out in accordance with the stated odds.
If you win with less than 7.5 points, your winnings will be paid out at odds of 2.
If you and the dealer score the same number of points and you haven't got a winning card combination (see the Rules below), the dealer wins.
If you and the dealer both score 7.5 points, whoever has the highest combination will win.
If you score 8 or more points with any number of cards, you have too many points and you lose.
If the dealer goes over 7.5 points and you don't, then you win.
The King of diamonds takes on the value of the most beneficial card for your current hand.
The cards are ranked in this order: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, J, Q, K, A.
As per the order above, the cards have the following values: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 1.

Card combination ranking:
Sette e Mezzo Classic — 7.5 points with more than two cards. Your winnings will be paid out at odds of 2.
Sette e Mezzo Reale — 7.5 points with two cards, one of which is a seven and the other is any picture card (K, Q, J). Your winnings will be paid out at odds of 3.
Sette e Mezzo Realissimo — 7.5 points with two cards, one of which is the King of diamonds. Your winnings will be paid out at odds of 3.
Doppio 7 — 2 sevens. If you have 2 sevens, you win and your winnings will be paid out at odds of 4.

Looks interesting. I'm guessing you hit most 5's, since 5 loses if the dealer makes a hand, and double 7 or Kd.

I assume "2 sevens" means Kd with a 7. I also assume you can double Kd and then if you get 7.5 points you will be paid odds on the doubled bet - it's also a guaranteed winner since the dealer cannot have the Kd as well.

Some of these hands can only have been doubled if the Kd came first, e.g. Kd + 7 must be drawn in that order since you'd stand (and double) on 7, and 7 + picture must have been the picture first, so won't be doubled.

I think that 2 sevens really means 7 and 7.
It's not mentioned in the rules, but looks like dealer buy untill he has at least the same amount of points as the player. I played and dealer buy with 5.5 against my 6 and then stand with 4,5 against my 4,5. I afraid this variant isn't very good for the player.

I've read Sette e Mezzo rules at Wiki and looks like the variant I mentioned is much closer to them.

P.S. Note to Wizard: You have wrong link from siete y media page to Sette e Mezzo page. And you name the game both Sette e Mezzo and Sette y Mezzo at these 2 pages.