lilredrooster
lilredrooster
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July 25th, 2018 at 5:22:07 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

My thoughts ....

https://youtu.be/04Qe-QWsjzY



you didn't read the postings on this issue carefully.

you said this in the comments under the video and in the video itself:

"There is a discussion going around that at least one casino is using an automatic shuffler to preset the shoes so that high cards (ten-valued and Aces) come out early in the shoe."

that is not what is being claimed. what is being claimed is that 𝐎𝐍𝐋𝐘 𝟏𝟎 𝐕𝐀𝐋𝐔𝐄 𝐂𝐀𝐑𝐃𝐒 are being clumped so the game is basically unbeatable because when these cards come out there will be all pushes and after they're gone the player will be at a huge disadvantage because of all the low cards left

your misunderstanding of these points is very disappointing

also, in stating that you've been out of the business for so long you've basically disqualified yourself as an expert because of the high speed advances in technology

to be clear - I am not saying the claims are accurate. I'm not sure. I only posted because so many respected veteran APs seemed to think it feasible.

basically, your video did absolutely nothing to clarify the situation and even muddied the waters further
"𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘦𝘷𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳"______Edgar Allan Poe
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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July 25th, 2018 at 5:28:43 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

My thoughts ....

https://youtu.be/04Qe-QWsjzY



Great video, teliot! Made a lot of sense. Nice for you to drop by.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
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July 25th, 2018 at 5:32:26 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Great video, teliot! Made a lot of sense. Nice for you to drop by.



there was absolutely nothing great about it. it made no sense at all. there would be less confusion if he hadn't dropped by.
"𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘦𝘷𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳"______Edgar Allan Poe
Zcore13
Zcore13
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July 25th, 2018 at 5:41:02 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster



that is not what is being claimed. what is being claimed is that 𝐎𝐍𝐋𝐘 𝟏𝟎 𝐕𝐀𝐋𝐔𝐄 𝐂𝐀𝐑𝐃𝐒 are being clumped so the game is basically unbeatable because when these cards come out there will be all pushes and after they're gone the player will be at a huge disadvantage because of all the low cards left



Ridiculous. It would take a day for someone to notice this pattern.

Quote: lilredrooster


your misunderstanding of these points is very disappointing


Just as ridiculous.

Quote: lilredrooster

also, in stating that you've been out of the business for so long you've basically disqualified yourself as an expert because of the high speed advances in technology


Winner. Most ridiculous comment.

Quote: lilredrooster


basically, your video did absolutely nothing to clarify the situation and even muddied the waters further


More ridiculousness.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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July 25th, 2018 at 5:43:01 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

there was absolutely nothing great about it. it made no sense at all. there would be less confusion if he hadn't dropped by.



It IS possible to disagree without being disagreeable. You might try it some time.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
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Thanks for this post from:
OnceDearbeachbumbabsMission146
July 25th, 2018 at 6:40:59 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

It IS possible to disagree without being disagreeable. You might try it some time.


I apologize for the rudeness of my comment. Sorry.
"𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘦𝘷𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳"______Edgar Allan Poe
dogqck
dogqck
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July 25th, 2018 at 7:53:44 PM permalink
It is my understanding that a group of DI's millionaires are manufacturing and installing gaffed shufflers. The FBI is investigating
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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July 25th, 2018 at 8:54:41 PM permalink
Eliot:

1, Well made video. Nice work.

2. I agreed with the second half of your video. It does seems unlikely in Nevada, NJ, etc.

3. I disagree with you on the math!

My impression of what is being discussed is clumps of high cards without low cards or aces. Imagine a clump of 25 -30 consecutive cards that are mostly tens, with some 9s and 8s intermixed among them as well but with no cards in the range of A-7. Such a high card clump would have zero advantage for either the player or the house. (I won't insult you by explaining this.) There is nothing for an AP to take advantage of (except for sidebets, which I don't know to have been present in this specific case.) It would be a very clever way to consume high cards and leave the rest of the shoe with a low density of tens which would indeed favor the house.

Such clumps would be noticeable, which is what is claimed to have happened in this instance - players are claiming to have noticed it.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
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Thanks for this post from:
beachbumbabsMission146
July 26th, 2018 at 2:33:07 AM permalink
I need to apologize to teliot also, because I was wrong in my criticism when I said that the claim was that it was only 10 value cards that were clumped. I went back over the original thread at bjtf and the poster called it a "high card clump." I think some poster somewhere said it was just 10s and somehow it stuck in my mind.

So, you were correct in calling it a high card clump and that part of my criticism was invalid.

again, sorry Sir.


however, this is what the OP from bjtf said about your video on another forum

"Teliot, (Eliot Jacabson) made and posted a video attempting to debunk my claim. Apparently Elliot didn't read the initial post of this discussion, because he immediately talked about the high card clump being at the beginning of the shoe. I didn't say that!. I thought I made it clear the high card clump can come out at anytime. All the machine can do is put the high card clump together. It doesn't determine where the clump is in the deck. The player cutting is the one that determines that."

this is what he said in his very first post at bjtf

"Basically there is a clump of high cards somewhere in play."
Last edited by: lilredrooster on Jul 26, 2018
"𝘣𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘦𝘷𝘦 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘳"______Edgar Allan Poe
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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July 26th, 2018 at 8:52:49 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Eliot:

1, Well made video. Nice work.

2. I agreed with the second half of your video. It does seems unlikely in Nevada, NJ, etc.

3. I disagree with you on the math!

My impression of what is being discussed is clumps of high cards without low cards or aces. Imagine a clump of 25 -30 consecutive cards that are mostly tens, with some 9s and 8s intermixed among them as well but with no cards in the range of A-7. Such a high card clump would have zero advantage for either the player or the house. (I won't insult you by explaining this.) There is nothing for an AP to take advantage of (except for sidebets, which I don't know to have been present in this specific case.) It would be a very clever way to consume high cards and leave the rest of the shoe with a low density of tens which would indeed favor the house.

Such clumps would be noticeable, which is what is claimed to have happened in this instance - players are claiming to have noticed it.

Depending on the location I would love a game that had high enough limits where you could guarantee a push each hand. That's an AP dream in some situations.

No need to beat the game itself.

Don't underestimate the value of the mail and even comps. Let's not forget you can also negotiate with a host.
It's not uncommon for players to receive walking in money(free play or whatever) when using higher amounts of front money and lines of credit. Did I mention ratholing could help as well?

Obviously, EC wouldn't be the best location for this.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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