blackjackid
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May 4th, 2018 at 10:02:35 AM permalink
first CT then the world!

gaming houses are already screwing us on double zero roulette ,7/5 JoB and now blackjack , Romes was correct . the average joe walks in with 500 to his name and loses it all in a few measly hours. whats the big deal it just speed things up. Eddy said in his book the bj player has 0 chance to win with 500 in atlantic city and table min being 10$ a pop he would need 1$ or 2$ tables otherwise a 10k roll is in order

so what really changes from 6:5 to 3:2 if the player is properly rolled the same end result will be met
Wizard
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May 4th, 2018 at 10:26:04 AM permalink
I hate to be accused of flooding, but I just posted a video about this topic yesterday.


Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Ru1QHLg_I
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
FleaStiff
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May 4th, 2018 at 11:31:18 AM permalink
Even at max volume I can barely hear the narration.
terapined
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May 4th, 2018 at 11:51:18 AM permalink
I could care less if 3/2 BJ leaves the strip
I consider gambling on the strip a total rip off
I never ever play BJ on the strip
I never ever play BJ in my local casino, Tampa Hard rock.
I only play games where I can make a low roller bet with the house only having the slightest of edges

There is only one casino on the planet I play BJ
The El Cortez
As long as they keep 3/2, I'm good
When somebody doesn't believe me, I could care less. Some get totally bent out of shape when not believed. Weird. I believe very little on all forums
rdw4potus
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May 4th, 2018 at 12:39:43 PM permalink
I'll be sure to look out for Eddy the next time I take my $10,000 to Atlantic City, CT in search of their $1 tables?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
blackjackid
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May 4th, 2018 at 1:08:00 PM permalink
this book was written in the 80s . he said 500 br for a 2$ and a 10k roll for a 10$ table understand now?
FleaStiff
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May 4th, 2018 at 1:17:52 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

I only play games where I can make a low roller bet with the house only having the slightest of edges;

Such as ???.
rdw4potus
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May 4th, 2018 at 1:30:17 PM permalink
Quote: blackjackid

this book was written in the 80s . he said 500 br for a 2$ and a 10k roll for a 10$ table understand now?



no. There's no reason (other than sensationalism) for those numbers not to be proportional. So, 500:2 as 2,500:10. Why would I need the other $7,500 when the stakes were only 5x higher?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
charliepatrick
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May 4th, 2018 at 1:39:14 PM permalink
Luckily in the UK the rules have Blackjacks at 3/2, although ukcasinotablegames now seem to say "normally pay". c.f. the roulette rules use to ensure single zero only until recently and some casinos nowhave 00-roulette, so watch this space. I think market forces keep most casinos to 3/2 DDAS s17 (no peek).
terapined
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May 4th, 2018 at 2:12:11 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Such as ???.


Pai Gow poker at Derby lane St Pete FL
Only small edge is dealer wins ties. No commission. 5 buck min bet
99.54 JOB all over Down Town Vegas. 25cent game or 1.25 per hand
5 buck BJ at the El Cortez
Don't bet in craps. Freemont downtown Vegas. 3 buck min
Last edited by: terapined on May 4, 2018
When somebody doesn't believe me, I could care less. Some get totally bent out of shape when not believed. Weird. I believe very little on all forums
aceofspades
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May 4th, 2018 at 2:14:00 PM permalink
To play devil's advocate:

While I play mostly black chip blackjack (which, as of yet, is unaffected by 6:5), the amount of comps I would get, even if black chip play was 6:5 more than outweigh any additional HE
MrBo
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May 4th, 2018 at 2:40:14 PM permalink
Quote: terapined


There is only one casino on the planet I play BJ
The El Cortez
As long as they keep 3/2, I'm good



While El Cortez hasn't gone to 6:5 as yet, they have installed some CSM in the last month. Oddly these are in the second pit which opens midday as opposed to the primary pit that is open 24/7. Usually places that lease these machines place them in the pits that are open 24/7 for maximum return on their rental investment.

While CSM may not be a concern to recreational players like yourself, it has been my experience that 6:5 is often right behind the implementation of CSM. It is very much the same mentality.
SiegfriedRoy
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May 4th, 2018 at 3:51:29 PM permalink
Quote: MrBo

While El Cortez hasn't gone to 6:5 as yet, they have installed some CSM in the last month. Oddly these are in the second pit which opens midday as opposed to the primary pit that is open 24/7. Usually places that lease these machines place them in the pits that are open 24/7 for maximum return on their rental investment.

While CSM may not be a concern to recreational players like yourself, it has been my experience that 6:5 is often right behind the implementation of CSM. It is very much the same mentality.



I am happy to report that the Treasure Island pays 3/2 on all multi-deck blackjack and 6/5 on single deck. Their high limit has a weekday $25 min/ $5000 max 6 deck hand shuffle, 3/2, DAS, late surrender, split As 4 times.
Wizard
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May 4th, 2018 at 5:14:04 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Even at max volume I can barely hear the narration.



Hmmm. I can hear it just fine. Anyone else having problems?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
DJTeddyBear
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May 4th, 2018 at 5:19:48 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

To play devil's advocate:

While I play mostly black chip blackjack (which, as of yet, is unaffected by 6:5), the amount of comps I would get, even if black chip play was 6:5 more than outweigh any additional HE

Hmmmmm.....
When the bean counters start looking at your type of action, do you think $100 6:5 will come before reducing offers, or the other way around?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
AxelWolf
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May 4th, 2018 at 5:59:31 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Hmmm. I can hear it just fine. Anyone else having problems?

Not sure, I was too distracted by the really crappie computer-generated writing.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
aceofspades
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May 4th, 2018 at 6:08:00 PM permalink
Why would they reduce my offers? I do not play nearly as much as I used to and CET offers are the same
rainman
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May 4th, 2018 at 7:00:00 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Hmmm. I can hear it just fine. Anyone else having problems?


It's been recorded a little low so if you don't have external amplification it's
week.
Wizard
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May 4th, 2018 at 9:16:03 PM permalink
Quote: rainman

It's been recorded a little low so if you don't have external amplification it's
week.



Doesn't everyone have external amplification?

To be honest, I'm not sure how to adjust it in creating the video.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
billryan
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May 4th, 2018 at 9:26:26 PM permalink
Sounds fine on my Fire Tablet, which often has issues with YouTube volume.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
rainman
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May 4th, 2018 at 9:44:08 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Doesn't everyone have external amplification?

To be honest, I'm not sure how to adjust it in creating the video.



No, if you have a cheap, old, crappy lap top the audio power
is week & limited to the power of the internal amp, you can attach a set of amplified speakers
and now you have external amp power. Not all speakers are pre amped and those
are also limited to the amps/sound cards power)

Example: I have my laptop plugged into a Epson projector
putting a 107 inch image on my wall plugged into that
is an home theater amp so I have the power to crank
up any week audio to deafening levels. Flea has
previously stated the lap top he uses is junk so your recording
may be low but his experience may be at the bottom of the
spectrum.
seanythetank
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May 5th, 2018 at 2:00:44 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Doesn't everyone have external amplification?

To be honest, I'm not sure how to adjust it in creating the video.



It was definitely very quiet for me too. Normally I have youtube videos play at about half volume, I had to pump that video up to full and then also pump my system volume up a bit to hear it. Regardless of external amplification, it's very quiet in comparison to other youtube videos.

EDIT: Also, the second half of the video is significantly louder than the first.
Wizard
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May 5th, 2018 at 7:52:27 AM permalink
Thanks again for the comments guys. One of the complaints on one of my older but similar videos was the bad sound quality. I think this is the first one I've released since buying a nicer desk USB microphone. I see it has a volume know, which I didn't know microphones had. It was set about half way up. I will set it higher the next time.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
gamerfreak
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May 5th, 2018 at 8:42:20 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks again for the comments guys. One of the complaints on one of my older but similar videos was the bad sound quality. I think this is the first one I've released since buying a nicer desk USB microphone. I see it has a volume know, which I didn't know microphones had. It was set about half way up. I will set it higher the next time.


What program are you using to capture/edit?
DJTeddyBear
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May 5th, 2018 at 9:31:00 AM permalink
Wiz -

I finally got around to watching it. Holy crap. I love ya, but, holy crap! I couldn't force myself to watch the whole thing, so I skipped around a bit.

1 - Get some decent graphics.
2 - Wear something professional. Or at least appropriate like your WoO golf shirt.
3 - Pick a better location. Like in front of your fireplace. Or even in front of a blank wall.
4 - Write a basic script. Read it several times until it's just about memorized. Then have a cheat sheet of bullet points off camera so you never have to say 'um'.


Quote: Wizard

Doesn't everyone have external amplification?

Don't trust your listener to have decent equipment. I just listened to parts of it on my iPhone, then on my MacBook. Neither with external speakers.

The first part was quieter then the second part, but both were passable on my iPhone. They were both terrible on my laptop - very quiet, then very loud and over modulated.

The first part sounded like you were too far away from the mic, while you were obviously too close on the second part. The mic should be 6"-12" inches. No closer, no further.


Bottom line, if you ever say to yourself, "That's good enough," it wasn't. "Good enough" is good enough for a quick reply to forum post or email or whatever. "Good enough" is never good enough for something that you're publishing with the hopes of hundreds or thousands of views as well as repeat views.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FleaStiff
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May 5th, 2018 at 10:23:57 AM permalink
Quote: terapined


Don't bet in craps. Freemont downtown Vegas. 3 buck min

Back when that was a "bird game" (quarters) the craps table was so close to the street that one dealer who had become exasperated with one of the players picked up the man's bet and tossed it right through the air-conditioning "wall" out onto the street and told him to go get your money and don't come back.
Jmarch79
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May 5th, 2018 at 2:12:46 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Wiz -

I finally got around to watching it. Holy crap. I love ya, but, holy crap! I couldn't force myself to watch the whole thing, so I skipped around a bit.

1 - Get some decent graphics.
2 - Wear something professional. Or at least appropriate like your WoO golf shirt.
3 - Pick a better location. Like in front of your fireplace. Or even in front of a blank wall.
4 - Write a basic script. Read it several times until it's just about memorized. Then have a cheat sheet of bullet points off camera so you never have to say 'um'.


Don't trust your listener to have decent equipment. I just listened to parts of it on my iPhone, then on my MacBook. Neither with external speakers.

The first part was quieter then the second part, but both were passable on my iPhone. They were both terrible on my laptop - very quiet, then very loud and over modulated.

The first part sounded like you were too far away from the mic, while you were obviously too close on the second part. The mic should be 6"-12" inches. No closer, no further.


Bottom line, if you ever say to yourself, "That's good enough," it wasn't. "Good enough" is good enough for a quick reply to forum post or email or whatever. "Good enough" is never good enough for something that you're publishing with the hopes of hundreds or thousands of views as well as repeat views.



Jeeze, Simon Cowell, take a breath. I think you're being a little overly critical. It's an informative video, not a nationally televised talent competition...

Nice job Wiz, once the sound quality is adjusted, you're good. I am not the fashion police and could care less what you are wearing in your videos - it is all about the content.
Wizard
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May 5th, 2018 at 2:18:17 PM permalink
Quote: Jmarch79

Jeeze, Simon Cowell, take a breath. I think you're being a little overly critical. It's an informative video, not a nationally televised talent competition...

Nice job Wiz, once the sound quality is adjusted, you're good. I am not the fashion police and could care less what you are wearing in your videos - it is all about the content.



Thank you. I was a bit overcome there to defend myself on that one. I would like to say, to just one point, that Andy Rooney, when he gave his weekly rants on 60 Minutes, always did it from a cluttered office. At least he wore a suit though.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
gamerfreak
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May 5th, 2018 at 2:19:24 PM permalink
I did find the audio was too low, even with all my levels cranked up.

The other issue with the audio is that when you switch to the video of you with the mic, the audio is only coming out of the left channel.

What program(s) are you using to put these together?
Sandybestdog
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May 5th, 2018 at 2:48:13 PM permalink
This trend will only continue for 2 reasons. First, people don’t care and they enjoy getting screwed. If people cared about 6:5, why does anybody ever play slots where the house edge is 5x that of 6:5? Why do they play side bets with huge house edges? They don’t care. The only people that care are advantage players and basic strategy players who just enjoy gambling and want to lose the least amount possible. The casino doesn’t want these players anyways.

The second reason is that casinos know no one cares and they convince the governments to allow it. The government/gaming commission is supposed to exist to regulate the casino and work for the consumers protection and interests. But they have turned into just another taxing agency for the politicians. Take my state of Maryland. When the regulations were created, we had some of the best rules in the country. But then the casinos convinced the regulators to let them hit soft 17. They told them it was to allow for them to lower table minimums. Secretly they told them if they let them do that it would mean more tax revenue. Now the casinos convinced them to allow 6:5, which was just another progression. Likewise the regulated slot payouts aren’t too bad. I believe each machine has to be set at a minimum of 87% and as a whole all slots have to pay out 90% cumulatively. Now the casinos are trying to get that lowered. They said it’s so they can provide more benefits to their customers. They sound like politicians wanting to raise taxes so they can provide more services for the citizens. Ok fine but what about the taxes we already pay? Where’s that money going?

Bottom line, people don’t care. They could make the payouts 80% and nobody would care so long as they got their free cookware set every Tuesday. Just my opinion, I hope I’m wrong.
TigerWu
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May 5th, 2018 at 4:05:16 PM permalink
If the people I know are any indication, most people rarely, if ever, gamble. The people that go on a "Vegas Vacation" do so once every X years, if not only once or twice in their entire life, and maybe gamble away $50 or $100 or $200 on their whole trip. So what do they care if they lose an extra $3.50 an hour or whatever at Blackjack going from 3:2 to 6:5? They don't... it's a molecule in a drop in a bucket of their lifetime entertainment expenditures. It won't even register on their brain, and it never will, and they MIGHT come back in 5-10 years with another $200 of gambling money in their pocket to do it all over again. But multiply that by tens of millions of people a year, and it adds up for the casinos.

I feel like that's the majority crowd in Vegas. You guys are looking at this from the prospective of APs and seasoned gamblers and math wizzes, but I don't think people like that are the demographics that casinos are after. They're focusing on the vacation crowds.
Jmarch79
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May 5th, 2018 at 5:19:32 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thank you. I was a bit overcome there to defend myself on that one. I would like to say, to just one point, that Andy Rooney, when he gave his weekly rants on 60 Minutes, always did it from a cluttered office. At least he wore a suit though.

g]



You're fine Wiz. I almost think you'd shine in front of a dry erase or chalk board with important content being "text added" during the editing process. I know from personal experience that writing on tablets looks messy and never looks like it is supposed to.
FleaStiff
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May 5th, 2018 at 6:44:49 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

If the people I know are any indication, most people rarely, if ever, gamble.
So what do they care if they lose an extra $3.50 an hour or whatever
It won't even register on their brain, and it never will,
I feel like that's the majority crowd in Vegas.

Its hard to determine what is "average" but it does seem that casinos use mailers and other comp schemes to get repeat customers not just once a decade neophyte vacationers. Casinos being built all over the country, entertainment events scheduled, hot hand specials, hot table specials, veterans and retired specials, etc. All these are not aimed at the 'come once a decade and bring two hundred dollars with you crowd. There is just too much time and effort spent on points and the like. Too much time and money spent on local outreach.

And lets face it, while some people may be there to drink, to ogle beautiful women, to eat, to see some entertainment acts, there is simply too much repeat business for a casino to focus on once a decade rather than twice a month.
seanythetank
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May 5th, 2018 at 6:58:09 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thank you. I was a bit overcome there to defend myself on that one. I would like to say, to just one point, that Andy Rooney, when he gave his weekly rants on 60 Minutes, always did it from a cluttered office. At least he wore a suit though.



Everything he said was definitely constructive criticism though; you've got a lot of knowledge and a really good knack for explaining complicated ideas in easy to understand terms. Those are your strengths - but video production isn't a strength for you at the moment. It can be though, if you set yourself standards and work towards meeting them for every video you make. Which you should!
billryan
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May 5th, 2018 at 9:21:01 PM permalink
Strictly from personal observation of mailings my friends and I got in NY, casinos in Nevada like people who visit four times a year. Going less will hurt future offers but going more doesn't really up them that much.
That's not written in stone and its based on both low roller and above average players. I'm not talking whales.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
racquet
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May 6th, 2018 at 6:05:47 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff



And lets face it, while some people may be there to drink, to ogle beautiful women, to eat, to see some entertainment acts, there is simply too much repeat business for a casino to focus on once a decade rather than twice a month.



There will be no way to empirically measure the impact that going 6:5 will have at Mohegan - there are too many other variables, and there is no exact way to track "coin in" at the table - it depends on what the floor decides to enter online.

However, if you are a regular at the blackjack table and you continue to frequent the casino, it would tell me one thing: you don't understand the game, in the least.

That said, comps and other reward programs do offer the casino an opportunity to measure repeat business. Without regard to the level of play or whether the repeat customer simply loses the same amount of money in a shorter time-frame, the guy either keeps coming back or does something else with his time.

I doubt that will matter. The empty suits are doing the math that tells them 6:5 brings in more than 3:2. It's like static analysis when they do taxes - they don't acknowledge that people modify their behavior based on what they decide.

Will blackjack players vote with their feet? Probably not.
FleaStiff
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May 6th, 2018 at 7:41:27 AM permalink
Quote: racquet


Will blackjack players vote with their feet? Probably not.

No, they will grumble, order an extra drink and play even more poorly than they otherwise would.
klimate10
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May 6th, 2018 at 11:37:19 AM permalink
I’ve been a fan of the Wizard since the early 2000s, but videos like the one presented are why 6-5 blackjack will continue to take hold. If you try to get technical, you will only preach to the choir.

Watch it from the average gamblers’ persepctive. It’s just unwatchable.

Forget the math. If you want to stop 6-5 there needs to be some sort of slogan that catches on, just gets to the point, and does so in a brutal way. Something like...

6-5 blackjack is stupid.

Only suckers play 6-5 blackjack.
Ibeatyouraces
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May 6th, 2018 at 12:05:51 PM permalink
Quote: blackjackid

first CT then the world!

gaming houses are already screwing us on double zero roulette ,7/5 JoB and now blackjack , Romes was correct . the average joe walks in with 500 to his name and loses it all in a few measly hours. whats the big deal it just speed things up. Eddy said in his book the bj player has 0 chance to win with 500 in atlantic city and table min being 10$ a pop he would need 1$ or 2$ tables otherwise a 10k roll is in order

so what really changes from 6:5 to 3:2 if the player is properly rolled the same end result will be met


So who is Blackjackid?
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
edwardjsmith
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May 6th, 2018 at 1:28:59 PM permalink
Quote: klimate10

I’ve been a fan of the Wizard since the early 2000s, but videos like the one presented are why 6-5 blackjack will continue to take hold. If you try to get technical, you will only preach to the choir.

Watch it from the average gamblers’ persepctive. It’s just unwatchable.

Forget the math. If you want to stop 6-5 there needs to be some sort of slogan that catches on, just gets to the point, and does so in a brutal way. Something like...

6-5 blackjack is stupid.

Only suckers play 6-5 blackjack.



I don't consider myself a sucker, but if the choices are 6/5 at $5 or 3/2 at $15, both 6 deck and h17, the RIGHT choice is 6/5.
No ICE in my drink, PLEASE
Ibeatyouraces
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May 6th, 2018 at 1:34:19 PM permalink
Quote: edwardjsmith

I don't consider myself a sucker, but if the choices are 6/5 at $5 or 3/2 at $15, both 6 deck and h17, the RIGHT choice is 6/5.


The right choice is to leave.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
edwardjsmith
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May 6th, 2018 at 1:37:36 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The right choice is to leave.



If that were correct , the right choice would have been to not enter.
No ICE in my drink, PLEASE
Ibeatyouraces
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May 6th, 2018 at 1:40:17 PM permalink
Quote: edwardjsmith

If that were correct , the right choice would have been to not enter.


If known in advance, you're right.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
edwardjsmith
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May 6th, 2018 at 1:46:17 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

If known in advance, you're right



I knew it ahead, wanted to play blackjack. 6/5 is the right choice!

(Mod edit: format error carried forward from here being corrected. No content edits. - BBB)
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on May 6, 2018
No ICE in my drink, PLEASE
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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May 6th, 2018 at 1:52:18 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The right choice is to leave.


There are people who gamble recreationally.

6:5 really isn’t that big of a deal for a casual gambler playing on $5 tables
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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May 6th, 2018 at 2:00:01 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

There are people who gamble recreationally.

6:5 really isn’t that big of a deal for a casual gambler playing on $5 tables


It's like going to a gas station that's $2.79 when the one across the street is $2.63. Lame excuse.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
edwardjsmith
edwardjsmith
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May 6th, 2018 at 2:14:49 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

It's like going to a gas station that's $2.79 when the one across the street is $2.63. Lame excuse.



Except in this case the cheapest gas is at the 6/5 $5 table in both the short and long run.
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on May 6, 2018
No ICE in my drink, PLEASE
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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May 6th, 2018 at 2:16:00 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

It's like going to a gas station that's $2.79 when the one across the street is $2.63. Lame excuse.


Not everyone is in Vegas where you have a choice of hundreds of casinos within driving distance.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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May 6th, 2018 at 2:28:22 PM permalink
Quote: edwardjsmith

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

It's like going to a gas station that's $2.79 when the one across the street is $2.63. Lame excuse.



Except in this case the cheapest gas is at the 6/5 $5 table in both the short and long run.


Actually it's not. You'll go broke on both. 6:5 is just faster.
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on May 6, 2018
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
edwardjsmith
edwardjsmith
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May 6th, 2018 at 2:42:59 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: edwardjsmith

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

It's like going to a gas station that's $2.79 when the one across the street is $2.63. Lame excuse.



Except in this case the cheapest gas is at the 6/5 $5 table in both the short and long run.


Actually it's not. You'll go broke on both. 6:5 is just faster.




At $15 3/2 versus $5 6/5, you will go broke faster,more often, at the 3/2 BJ table
Last edited by: beachbumbabs on May 6, 2018
No ICE in my drink, PLEASE
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