Down Under Blackjack
Poll
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13 members have voted
Please click the link and let me know what you think. As always, I welcome all questions, comments, and especially corrections.
The question for the poll is would you play Down Under Blackjack?
When this game was first shown at Cutting Edge in 2016, color was important because they used custom cards where the cards had colors to indicate range. The color spots could be seen in the little mirror. In 2017, they got rid of the mirror and used standard cards and a scanner that could read the card and indicate the range.
Ok, the scanner uses color LED lights as indicators, and the same color indicators on the felt, but for the purposes of your narrative, where neither the scanner nor felt is shown, color is unimportant, and just adds confusion.
Otherwise, the article looks great. And I still think it’s a great game concept.
Quote: DJTeddyBearRemove all references to color, and just use Low, Med and High.
There is a rule that if the player has two gold cards, then he wins a 20 vs. 22 situation. Nevertheless, I'll think about your suggestion.
Ah, yes. They call it “Golden Rule.” Personally, the rule is fine (and gets them around Geoff’s push 22 patent) but the name is silly. Particularly since the ‘gold’ on the felt and sensor light looks more yellow than gold.Quote: WizardThere is a rule that if the player has two gold cards, then he wins a 20 vs. 22 situation. Nevertheless, I'll think about your suggestion.
But that reminds me of another ‘rule’. If the dealer has two high cards, after offering insurance, he turns both face up. After all, if he doesn’t have BJ, he’s got two aces or two tens.
You can't have a verbal game in a large, busy casino. Too much noise. Too much chance of a misunderstanding. Too many non English speaking customers.
I don't think the push 22 concept has really caught on or been well received by customers..
My guess is that most or all of these installs are giveaways. They will be hard pressed to be able to get Carnival Game monthly lease money from anyone.
ZCore13
Quote: WizardThere is a rule that if the player has two gold cards, then he wins a 20 vs. 22 situation. Nevertheless, I'll think about your suggestion.
Couldn’t they have just said a players hard 20 wins vs a dealer 22
Quote: Zcore13I don't like it and it won't make it.
You can't have a verbal game in a large, busy casino. Too much noise. Too much chance of a misunderstanding. Too many non English speaking customers.
I don't think the push 22 concept has really caught on or been well received by customers..
My guess is that most or all of these installs are giveaways. They will be hard pressed to be able to get Carnival Game monthly lease money from anyone.
ZCore13
I was trying to think of any other casino table game that relies on a verbal statement by the dealer as part of the gameplay. Couldnt come up with one.
Edit: ok upon reading the rules I now see that a light goes on at the table indicating to the players what range the hole card is in. I knew it could not just purely be the dealer verbally communicating it.
Quote: Zcore13I don't like it and it won't make it.
I've seen it played with significant player interest. I think it has a good future.
Quote: bobbartopI've seen it played with significant player interest. I think it has a good future.
Every game has significant player interest when it first comes out.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Every game has significant player interest when it first comes out.
ZCore13
Perhaps, but I've seen this game being played for several months now. It does have its fans.
Have you seen it, or played it yourself? Just asking. If you haven't played it, give it a try, it will make you think.
I myself thought it was quite interesting, but I guess I'm not smart enough on my own to figure out how to play it correctly. There are some complicated situations. And it bothered me that I didn't know if I was making a bad play. Now that the Wizard has published this work, that may change.
PS: I'd prefer a shoe over a CSM.
Quote: Zcore13You can't have a verbal game in a large, busy casino. Too much noise. Too much chance of a misunderstanding. Too many non English speaking customers.
The dealer doesn't verbally say, "I have a medium card in the hole," for example. There are three places on the felt labeled low, medium, and high where he will put both dealer cards after peeking for the color of the hole card.
Quote: WizardThe dealer doesn't verbally say, "I have a medium card in the hole," for example. There are three places on the felt labeled low, medium, and high where he will put both dealer cards after peeking for the color of the hole card.
In your Introduction portion of the game , you said.. “the dealer will announce whether his hole card is high medium or low”.. I think that wording is what led some to believe the players are made aware only verbally
Quote: WizardThe dealer doesn't verbally say, "I have a medium card in the hole," for example. There are three places on the felt labeled low, medium, and high where he will put both dealer cards after peeking for the color of the hole card.
That's a little better. I still don't like the method.
O love to see good games succeed. There is room on casino floors for new games. I just don't think this one is it.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13That's a little better. I still don't like the method.
O love to see good games succeed. There is room on casino floors for new games. I just don't think this one is it.
ZCore13
That's why I asked you if you have actually seen it in action. I still can't tell if you answered that question. If you have not seen it, then I suggest giving it a look before you make a judgement. Because from my experience, which is over several months, first people had to catch on a little bit, and once they did many of them liked it. Now they know how it works and it is rather popular.
Quote: WizardThe dealer doesn't verbally say, "I have a medium card in the hole," for example. There are three places on the felt labeled low, medium, and high where he will put both dealer cards after peeking for the color of the hole card.
Once you actually see it in play, there is NO confusion. People understand it, it runs smooth, players enjoy it. Some hands require thinking. Now that your guide is published, that will help some people with the difficult decisions. (like me)
Quote: bobbartopOnce you actually see it in play, there is NO confusion. People understand it, it runs smooth, players enjoy it. Some hands require thinking. Now that your guide is published, that will help some people with the difficult decisions. (like me)
Since you're actually playing it, I'm guessing it's 3 to 2 there? Looking at the math, I worry many Strip casinos wouldn't want to install it at 3 to 2. Obviously the strategy is more complicated, but casinos are too scared to be exploited too.
Quote: mrsuit31Is the math on the game workable if the game is simply dealt face up? Does knowing the exact down card vs knowing the range really have a massive impact on the edge? If so, how much of an impact?
It will on a lot of situations.
Quote: IbeatyouracesQuote: mrsuit31Is the math on the game workable if the game is simply dealt face up? Does knowing the exact down card vs knowing the range really have a massive impact on the edge? If so, how much of an impact?
It will on a lot of situations.
I meant in terms of overall house edge on the game....
Knowing a range will definitely knock this down a bit. Add in the "push 22" rule, and it'll go back to a house edge.
Quote: mipletHere are the WSGC Rules for reference. I would modify rule 5 to mention the 3 range areas in front of the Dealer.
I'm surprised this got approved in Washington. Usually custom cards are not allowed, as far as I know.
A player who wants to play this seriously, and a dealer who wants to make good tips on this game, needs to memorize three basic strategy charts. Yikes.
Custom cards are NOT required. Also, there is no mirror like the old school BJ peeker.Quote: DeucekiesI'm surprised this got approved in Washington. Usually custom cards are not allowed, as far as I know.Quote: mipletHere are the WSGC Rules for reference. I would modify rule 5 to mention the 3 range areas in front of the Dealer.
A scanner reads the card’s index and lights the appropriate color code.
If the dealer has an ace, this scanner verifies, after offering insurance that the card is a ten, ace or other. Whenever both cards are high, both are exposed.
Note that at the 2016 show they did use custom cards and a mirror. In 2017 it was a scanner that could read any card.
Quote: IbeatyouracesKnowing a range will definitely knock this down a bit. Add in the "push 22" rule, and it'll go back to a house edge.
That's where the question was heading, if the cards are simply dealt face up, and you use a normal push 22 rule (or something similar) does the house maintain an edge...
Curious what a completely face up game, with the standard push 22 rule and no surrender option would produce House Advantagewise......
Quote: mrsuit31That's where the question was heading, if the cards are simply dealt face up, and you use a normal push 22 rule (or something similar) does the house maintain an edge...
Curious what a completely face up game, with the standard push 22 rule and no surrender option would produce House Advantage wise......
Isn’t that already a game called Double Exposure blackjack ?
Quote: tringlomaneSince you're actually playing it, I'm guessing it's 3 to 2 there? Looking at the math, I worry many Strip casinos wouldn't want to install it at 3 to 2. Obviously the strategy is more complicated, but casinos are too scared to be exploited too.
It's 3-2 at the casino I go to. They also use a CSM, which I don't care for. All of their other games use shoes. It's a small casino and they are not afraid to try new things. They are very player-friendly and it's just a very good place to play, great employees and management, treat the players very well. I will try to play a little more of this game in the near future and give it some more thought.
Quote: DJTeddyBearCustom cards are NOT required. Also, there is no mirror like the old school BJ peeker.
But the WSGC rules do allow for them, which I believe historically they have not done. That was my point.
Custom cards or extraneous equipment, I don't see this game getting many installs in WA.
Quote: mrsuit31That's where the question was heading, if the cards are simply dealt face up, and you use a normal push 22 rule (or something similar) does the house maintain an edge...
Curious what a completely face up game, with the standard push 22 rule and no surrender option would produce House Advantagewise......
According to Wizards blackjack page, push 22 is worth -6.91%. So the answer is no. Players would still have an edge on standard blackjack, even without surrender, if both dealers cards were revealed.
Quote: michael99000Isn’t that already a game called Double Exposure blackjack ?
All of the unfriendly playing rules on Double Exposure more than negate the advantage of seeing both cards. The push 22 rule alone wouldn't.
Quote: michael99000In your Introduction portion of the game , you said.. “the dealer will announce whether his hole card is high medium or low”.. I think that wording is what led some to believe the players are made aware only verbally
Good point. I'll reword that.
Quote: mrsuit31
No. Double Exposure gets its advantage by the player losing on ties and blackjacks paying even money. The push 22 rule is not that unfriendly so the players would have an advantage if the only changes to blackjack were both dealer cards exposed and the push 22 rule.
Quote: Wizard..Double Exposure gets its advantage by the player losing on ties...
Out of curiosity, which is worse, ties losing as in Double Exposure or in standard blackjack. Obviously in DE you have an opportunity to beat a dealer 17-20 by hitting if you're tied but don't in regular blackjack.
Quote: WizardQuote: mrsuit31
No. Double Exposure gets its advantage by the player losing on ties and blackjacks paying even money. The push 22 rule is not that unfriendly so the players would have an advantage if the only changes to blackjack were both dealer cards exposed and the push 22 rule.
Got it.
Quote: IbeatyouracesOut of curiosity, which is worse, ties losing as in Double Exposure or in standard blackjack. Obviously in DE you have an opportunity to beat a dealer 17-20 by hitting if you're tied but don't in regular blackjack.
I've never been asked that before. Without doing any math, I think it would be worse for the player in regular blackjack, because I think Double Exposure has a lot more player busting. The losing on ties doesn't matter if you already busted.
Quote: WizardDown Under Blackjack is on field trial at the Excalibur.
Interested to see how this does. For all the crap that has been placed out there and faded immediately, this one may have some legs.
Quote: hursedogAnother BJ VARIANT, 3 different basic strategies, and not wanting to see a dealer's 22. Why not just add 1 Uno card, 2 Old Maid cards, and a get out of jail card and be done with it ? Will anybody ever invent a BJ ENHANCEMENT !
BJ ENHANCEMENT ! (Unlimited® Blackjack™ Auto-Splits®) at WizardofOdds.com: http://bit.ly/2tpTL0C
+1Quote: Zcore13Every game has significant player interest when it first comes out.
ZCore13
Quote: WizardDown Under Blackjack is on field trial at the Excalibur.
It is supposedly doing pretty well at Table Mountain Casino in California.
Quote: RomesWas this anytime recently? I actually searched for it very early this year and never found it. Went through the pit multiple times.
I believe it is currently on field trial there. It should be open at least 8 hours per day for 45 days
https://gaming.nv.gov/index.aspx?page=84
Looks like it is running from 10-29-18 through 12-13-18
When I play it, it's a lot easier to play the dealer's hand as a total compared to a "up card" to make decisions rather than trying to remember three strategy cards...
Give it a whirl, you'll probably like it.
