Question about best BJ game to play

I live near a casino which offers several different blackjack games and variations.

Singledeck - Pays 6 to 5 of course
Zappit - Player can get a new hand if has a hand of 15,16,17,18, but if dealer gets 22 all bets push
Blackjack Switch - Switch cards between 2 hands and once again if dealer gets 22 all bets push
Standard shoe game - I believe this is 8 decks and blackjacks pay 3-2

Im interested in taking things seriously from this point forwards. I have logged a lot of blackjack hours in my life but it has always been unsystematic and non disciplined. I would now like to take a serious and mathematical approach and my goal is to walk away with $150 in profit per session.

It seems that according to the Wizard the best odds are blackjack switch? But the singledeck odds of -1.45 House edge do not take into account card counting.

Isnt my best bet here to play singledeck and count?

Switch is fairly difficult to play as to achieve the House Edge it requires the correct switching strategy as well as how to play a "Push 22" game.

From the games you listed, the 8 deck deck by far.

And drop the notion of having a "win goal."

To the OP, just stay away from Vegas. The whole city is run by the mob and they have the gaming commission in their pocket. No one checks the cards, no one does shit.

Even had a pit boss lie straight to my face today saying that Aria comes preshuffled as well when thats clearly wrong because Aria shows the cards. These pit bosses and everyone that works in management are nothing but pure scum and mindless drones following orders without ever questioning anything. These pit bosses will lie straight to your face whether it was intentional or not, how can he spit out misinformation to customers without knowing the full truth? He even had the audacity to then tell me that he has 42 years of experience and that im wrong LOL. 42 years and he doesnt even know shit. Why am i not surprised. You camt evem trust the pit bosses now. You can onlh trust them as far as you can throw them and comsidering how obese every single one of these scum are, its not very far.

Fact of the matter is he was completely wrong because aria indeed shows you the cards and they come in order since ive seen it with my own eyes. Aria at least has some integrity and transparency unlike these other mob ridden preshuffled casinos on the strip with missing 10s and Aces. I honestly wish casinos still backroomed you. I would beat up all 5 of their security guards. They would have to put me in a coma and break every bone in my body to get rid of me. After i wake up and heal id be back the next day for more. I cant wait to get backed off, these guys will regret it, they never met anyone like me. I wont leave this town without a Supreme Court decision in my favor. Atlantic City learned the hard way in court, vegas is next.

If im not getting cheated, then im obviously just cursed. Theres 2 options here. Either vegas is rigged and im getting cheated or im as unlucky as it gets and i will NEVER hit my EV, EVER. The funny thing is i wouldnt have it any other way. It wouldnt be fair with someone with my talent to also have luck. I rather have my split aces with 21s on each of them and 20 on other hand get 4 card 21'd by the dealer for 130 hours straight. Oh did i mention i rather also have my two pat 20 hands against dealers 5s and 6s get continually wiped out in max bet territory to a 4 or 5 card 21 for 130 hours straight. Yea thats how it goes when youre as good as me. I honestly hope i lose my whole bankroll. Ill be the first ever player to play flawlessly and be 4 standard deviations out. Yes 4 standard deviations after thousands of hours. I will be the .0001% guy. Nothing new in my life. God bless me.

Quote: Nimadamus

Isnt my best bet here to play singledeck and count?

I don't think singledeck would be playable. The house edge is huge, and your counting system is less useful because big bets are not fully rewarded when the remaining cards are rich in blackjack potential.

I don't know about the gimmick games, but for standard shoes, I would want low table minimums so I can spread my bets, and good penetration.

Quote: Nimadamus

I live near a casino which offers several different blackjack games and variations.

Singledeck - Pays 6 to 5 of course
Zappit - Player can get a new hand if has a hand of 15,16,17,18, but if dealer gets 22 all bets push
Blackjack Switch - Switch cards between 2 hands and once again if dealer gets 22 all bets push
Standard shoe game - I believe this is 8 decks and blackjacks pay 3-2

Im interested in taking things seriously from this point forwards. I have logged a lot of blackjack hours in my life but it has always been unsystematic and non disciplined. I would now like to take a serious and mathematical approach and my goal is to walk away with $150 in profit per session.

It seems that according to the Wizard the best odds are blackjack switch? But the singledeck odds of -1.45 House edge do not take into account card counting.

Isnt my best bet here to play singledeck and count?

My 2 cents is the best is 8 Decks for sure. It is also less likely to attract attention than single deck usually. I don't think you can beat single deck 6/5, unless you do some serious Wonging and I don't know if even that would work, how the penetration is and if they allow mid shoe entry. Also you won't fly under the radar long wonging on SD.

Quote: ZenKinG

To the OP, just stay away from Vegas. The whole city is run by the mob and they have the gaming commission in their pocket. No one checks the cards, no one does shit.

Even had a pit boss lie straight to my face today saying that Aria comes preshuffled as well when thats clearly wrong because Aria shows the cards. These pit bosses and everyone that works in management are nothing but pure scum and mindless drones following orders without ever questioning anything. These pit bosses will lie straight to your face whether it was intentional or not, how can he spit out misinformation to customers without knowing the full truth? He even had the audacity to then tell me that he has 42 years of experience and that im wrong LOL. 42 years and he doesnt even know shit. Why am i not surprised. You camt evem trust the pit bosses now. You can onlh trust them as far as you can throw them and comsidering how obese every single one of these scum are, its not very far.

Fact of the matter is he was completely wrong because aria indeed shows you the cards and they come in order since ive seen it with my own eyes. Aria at least has some integrity and transparency unlike these other mob ridden preshuffled casinos on the strip with missing 10s and Aces. I honestly wish casinos still backroomed you. I would beat up all 5 of their security guards. They would have to put me in a coma and break every bone in my body to get rid of me. After i wake up and heal id be back the next day for more. I cant wait to get backed off, these guys will regret it, they never met anyone like me. I wont leave this town without a Supreme Court decision in my favor. Atlantic City learned the hard way in court, vegas is next.

If im not getting cheated, then im obviously just cursed. Theres 2 options here. Either vegas is rigged and im getting cheated or im as unlucky as it gets and i will NEVER hit my EV, EVER. The funny thing is i wouldnt have it any other way. It wouldnt be fair with someone with my talent to also have luck. I rather have my split aces with 21s on each of them and 20 on other hand get 4 card 21'd by the dealer for 130 hours straight. Oh did i mention i rather also have my two pat 20 hands against dealers 5s and 6s get continually wiped out in max bet territory to a 4 or 5 card 21 for 130 hours straight. Yea thats how it goes when youre as good as me. I honestly hope i lose my whole bankroll. Ill be the first ever player to play flawlessly and be 4 standard deviations out. Yes 4 standard deviations after thousands of hours. I will be the .0001% guy. Nothing new in my life. God bless me.

I am now curious, for the sake of argument, are there ways the casino can preshuffle cards in order to favor the house? Any method I can think of seems to be easily detectable... missing faces and aces can be statistically estimated I think. And how can the casino order the cards without knowing how many hands are gonna be played at any given time?

Thanks ZenKing,I always enjoy starting off my day with a good dose of humor.

Quote: HugoSlavia

I don't think singledeck would be playable. The house edge is huge, and your counting system is less useful because big bets are not fully rewarded when the remaining cards are rich in blackjack potential.

I don't know about the gimmick games, but for standard shoes, I would want low table minimums so I can spread my bets, and good penetration.

Not sure what you mean by the big bets are not fully rewarded when the remaining cards are rich in BJ potential.

Looks like indeed the best way to go is the 8 deck shoe which is a bit of a surprise to me. That 3 to 2 on BJ's is huge I guess.

Quote: Nimadamus

Not sure what you mean by the big bets are not fully rewarded when the remaining cards are rich in BJ potential.

I believe he means your BJs only get 6-5 instead of 3-2. You lose almost a third of the value.

Quote: billryan

I believe he means your BJs only get 6-5 instead of 3-2. You lose almost a third of the value.

Ah yes of course. True story.

Ive seen singldeck games that pay 3 to 2 in reno at some of the shithole casinos. Cal Neva and CIrcus Circus.

Can play a good game there if you can stomach that joke of a town.

I mean just think about this for a second. If the casinos main excuse for getting preshuffled cards is to speed up the game, then someone go ahead and tell me this. What difference does it make if they come in orde or preshuffled if youre still going to throw them in the ASM when you get them? What time are you exactly saving? The dealer still checks the back of cards just like they would if it came in order. You then throw them into the ASM and it counts it and shuffles it again. Also when they change the cards at 4am, theres never anyone at the table. So again, someone go ahead and enlighten me and tell me exactly how much time theyre saving and that they couldnt do the same thing with regular cards in order? The only difference with preshuffled cards is that the transparency between customer and casino is gone. Hmmm. Once again no one on here or pit boss can give me a logical answer.

Keep cheating vegas and everywhere else who does the same thing. Glad money means that much to you. Nothing but worthless scum running these casinos. Scum

Do they use the same preshuffled decks for baccarat? Obviously removing aces and 10's wouldn't have the same effect.

Quote: ZenKinG

Keep cheating vegas and everywhere else who does the same thing. Glad money means that much to you. Nothing but worthless scum running these casinos. Scum

You should wish the mob still ran the casinos, the Blackjack games would be much better and you'd be 7-8 SD's to the bad.

I thought it was the WOV members that were scum. Isn't that what you said in your farewell address?

Quote: Mission146

You should wish the mob still ran the casinos, the Blackjack games would be much better and you'd be 7-8 SD's to the bad.

Thats right, keep skipping right over my question. Not one member here or pit boss has given me a logical answer to why they use preshuffled cards. Done blame you guys either because there is no logocal answer, yet im the crazy one. Maybe im just the only with a brain these days that thinks outside the box and can think critically while everyone else keeps kickimg the can down the road never questiomimg anything.

Casinos claim is that it saves them time, but go ahead and tell me how that even makes sense. If the cards came in order it would be the same thing. They throw them in the ASM anyway after they receive them so why do they need to receive them pre shuffled? What are they hiding? Whem they change te cards, the tables are dead empty as well. The only thing getting them pre shuffled does is now there's absolutely no transparency between casino and player and no one sees a problem with that? Disgusting

Preshuffled, open one box,inspect backs put cards in asm.
Not preshuffled, open cellophane on each box,open each box,remove jokers and extra blank cards,inspect backs and fronts, riffle cards ,insert in asm.Granted if casinos trusted asm,they shouldn't have to riffle the cards before inserting them.
The time savings is more for when they are opening tables during busy times like noon time or 8pm.,at 4am it doesn't make much difference.

Quote: billryan

I believe he means your BJs only get 6-5 instead of 3-2.

Sorry. Yes, that's what I meant.

When you have a positive true count the edge comes from:

- the payout on more frequent BJs
- the dealer more frequently busting hard 12-16 (which dealer never stands on)
- the player hitting his doubled 11s and 10s with a ten more often

So 6-5 on BJ payout does NOT reduce the benefit of counting by a factor of 3, as someone claimed.

Quote: gordonm888

When you have a positive true count the edge comes from:

- the payout on more frequent BJs
- the dealer more frequently busting hard 12-16 (which dealer never stands on)
- the player hitting his doubled 11s and 10s with a ten more often

So 6-5 on BJ payout does NOT reduce the benefit of counting by a factor of 3, as someone claimed.

Semantics. Doesn't reduce the benefit of counting by a factor of 3, but the house edge goes up 3x the original HE. A good estimate is a 1.5% increase in HE with 6/5

Zen king you are just cursed just own it and move on, no one is cheating you !!!!!

Quote: ZenKinG

Semantics. Doesn't reduce the benefit of counting by a factor of 3, but the house edge goes up 3x the original HE. A good estimate is a 1.5% increase in HE with 6/5

Having a very quick look (sim: 10m hands each) at a UK-like BJ the House Edge goes up over three times and the potential profit for a counter goes down by 93%.

6/4	0.47%	$18.63
6/5	1.81%	$1.35

Quote: Nimadamus

Looks like indeed the best way to go is the 8 deck shoe which is a bit of a surprise to me. That 3 to 2 on BJ's is huge I guess.

The shoe game will have the lowest base house edge, as well as have many more opportunities... but there are A LOT of factors that go in to picking a game.

The most basic response to your questions is a shoe game, and card counting. After that, in card counting, there are tons more questions as to specific rules, Penetration (PEN), and heat/tolerance levels.

I'd highly recommend you read my 3 A-Z articles on counting cards in blackjack that are hosted in the Articles section of this very site:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-in-Blackjack/

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-In-Blackjack-2/

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-in-Blackjack-3/

These will need a re-read, and another re-read as there is SO MUCH information in them... but after you read them a few times you should have all of main and some of the minor concepts in your head to understand just what card counting is, how it's done, why it works, and how to do it... Feel free to message me with any followup questions to them after a couple readings.

If you want to take your game more seriously, then you're going to have to put in the work. There's no other way around that... though personally I think 1-3 months of training is well worth a lifetime of opportunity.

Quote: Romes

The shoe game will have the lowest base house edge, as well as have many more opportunities... but there are A LOT of factors that go in to picking a game.

The most basic response to your questions is a shoe game, and card counting. After that, in card counting, there are tons more questions as to specific rules, Penetration (PEN), and heat/tolerance levels.

I'd highly recommend you read my 3 A-Z articles on counting cards in blackjack that are hosted in the Articles section of this very site:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-in-Blackjack/

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-In-Blackjack-2/

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-in-Blackjack-3/

These will need a re-read, and another re-read as there is SO MUCH information in them... but after you read them a few times you should have all of main and some of the minor concepts in your head to understand just what card counting is, how it's done, why it works, and how to do it... Feel free to message me with any followup questions to them after a couple readings.

If you want to take your game more seriously, then you're going to have to put in the work. There's no other way around that... though personally I think 1-3 months of training is well worth a lifetime of opportunity.

Doesnt work in Vegas. Counting is obsolete here. Ots obvious something is going on behind the scenes here. I bet no one knows any counter personally that has made money in this city strictly from counting. Either the machines are rigged or Vegas has the gaming commission in their pocket. Face it, this city was built by the mob, corruption runs deeps. Just look at the courts who always refuse to hear a card counting case. That should tell you just how bad this mob infested corrupt city is.

Quote: ZenKinG

Doesnt work in Vegas. Counting is obsolete here. Ots obvious something is going on behind the scenes here. I bet no one knows any counter personally that has made money in this city strictly from counting. Either the machines are rigged or Vegas has the gaming commission in their pocket. Face it, this city was built by the mob, corruption runs deeps. Just look at the courts who always refuse to hear a card counting case. That should tell you just how bad this mob infested corrupt city is.

This is just flat out lies and pure bias based from variance. I have won from STRICTLY blackjack in that town for years. Both on and off the strip. Card counting works, and it works in Vegas.

Ironically, the past few years we'll still do some blackjack but just not as much... but ironically we've won almost every time we've went out in blackjack (while sometimes taking losses on much higher edge games), for the past few years.

Quote: gordonm888

When you have a positive true count the edge comes from:

- the payout on more frequent BJs
- the dealer more frequently busting hard 12-16 (which dealer never stands on)
- the player hitting his doubled 11s and 10s with a ten more often

So 6-5 on BJ payout does NOT reduce the benefit of counting by a factor of 3, as someone claimed.

Since insurance is not offered on a 6/5 game, profits from counting are reduced by 30% from that fact alone

Quote: sixsisters

Since insurance is not offered on a 6/5 game, profits from counting are reduced by 30% from that fact alone

EVEN MONEY isn't offered. Insurance is.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

EVEN MONEY isn't offered. Insurance is.

MY BAD >>>> SORRY

Quote: ZenKinG

I mean just think about this for a second. If the casinos main excuse for getting preshuffled cards is to speed up the game, then someone go ahead and tell me this. What difference does it make if they come in orde or preshuffled if youre still going to throw them in the ASM when you get them? What time are you exactly saving? The dealer still checks the back of cards just like they would if it came in order. You then throw them into the ASM and it counts it and shuffles it again. Also when they change the cards at 4am, theres never anyone at the table. So again, someone go ahead and enlighten me and tell me exactly how much time theyre saving and that they couldnt do the same thing with regular cards in order? The only difference with preshuffled cards is that the transparency between customer and casino is gone. Hmmm. Once again no one on here or pit boss can give me a logical answer.

Keep cheating vegas and everywhere else who does the same thing. Glad money means that much to you. Nothing but worthless scum running these casinos. Scum

Just asking but since we actually have some good members who work for casinos on here, is this an insult ?

Sure they may not be CEO's but really, hasn't this guys act gotten old?

Let's play a game, going back over all the banned members over the years, name 1 who was a bigger crybaby than this guy?