Greetings
Well, I'm in Vegas (Bally's & PH) for a convention and am looking forward to playing a little BJ when I can find a low-roller table that pays 3:2, and I've found a few $10 min so far, but no $5 min yet. From what I can gather so far, it looks like everyone's using an 8-deck shoe, at least on the "ploppy" tables. I checked the WoV site and saw that the HE is .02944 higher than using a 6-deck shoe (.057519 v. .054775, which is what my hometown casino uses.
So here's my question: is it really worth my time/effort to find a 6-deck game? Does .03% really make a difference?
I'm done with my convention stuff for the day, and my first order of business is to have a beer! I'm a big craft beer guy, so I'm going to check out Ellis Island. (I've already had Sin City.) Then dinner, and then finally some BJ.
I'll update my post as my trip progresses. Wish me luck!
p.s. it is too freakin' hot!!!!
Edit 1: (Thursday) thanks to IBYA for the advice. Well, I had dinner at Ellis--hey, it's cheap--and I found that all the BJ tables in the small gaming area pay 3:2. I think at one point I was up $22-24, but a couple of really bad shoes killed me. (I'd get up a few dollars and then lose 2-3 doubles, not to mention splitting 8s to three hands and losing them v. dealer 6!) One notable hand: I had a 3-card soft 18 v. dealer 3. The whole table was telling me to stand, but I hit--and drew a 2! One major new thing for me: surrender! Back home it's not offered, so I've learned basic strategy without it. Tonight's homework is to adjust my BS to incorporate surrender. My final result so far: down $100 for about 3 hours of play.
One comment I have about the casinos and perhaps Vegas along the strip: it's so f!#/ing loud! The constant music is loud, and at night when there's a live band playing makes things even worse! I feel sorry for all the employees, especially those who have to work close to the live music, for they will have hearing problems in the future.
Oh, I did see a double deck game at the Paris ($25 min). I stood behind the players and tried my hand at counting (called back counting, yes?) and watched the play. I suppose wearing a convention badge and holding a program would be perfect cover if I chose to sit in and play. Anyway, no one playing at that table had any real idea what they were doing.
I'll report more later today.
On my last visit in Apr, there were many 3:2 BJ tables w $5 min in downtown - the Cal, Mainstreet Station, etc. Or, use the BJ Survey of WoV:Quote: Theoriemeisterto playing a little BJ when I can find a low-roller table that pays 3:2, and I've found a few $10 min so far, but no $5 min yet.
https://wizardofvegas.com/guides/blackjack-survey/
Quote: ZenKinGVegas is rigged and still run by the mob at higher levels and probably in the gaming commission as well.. Stay away from blackjack. Dont say i didnt warn you
B.S.
This rag of yours is getting old.
Post proof, or STFU.
So, you're going to quit trying to beat them fair and square.Quote: ZenKinGVegas is rigged and still run by the mob at higher levels and probably in the gaming commission as well.. Stay away from blackjack. Dont say i didnt warn you
It's not crooked. We already concluded you are cursed.
So, no tasting room, but I quickly figure out that if I play I can get free beer. I scope out some of the tables and ask the dealer to explain some of the rules. 2 decks, I notice. (I've never played a double deck game.) I also notice that all the hands are dealt face down, also new to me--and I also learn that they can only be touched by one hand at a time--but I soon learn how to do all the right signals. (It also seemed to me that keeping the cards covered hinders card counting a little, at least for beginners, because you don't have much time to take things in; cards are tossed onto the table and quickly scooped up by the dealer.)
So, before I sit down and play, I go off by the slots, grab a seat and look up a BS strategy chart for this game. I compare it with the one I'm familiar with and try to keep note of the differences. During the course of play I learn that there's no surrender, and no doubling after a split (new to me). (This got me wondering about which rules have the biggest affect on HE.)
The result: I played for about 3 hours or so. I quickly lost $100, bought in for another $100, and clawed my way back to almost even. So, I leave Main St. down about $20. I walk toward Fremont St. but stop at the Plaza and ask one of the dealer for directions. I notice that in this small "pit" all the dealers are these buxom young women showing lots of cleavage--clearly meant to distract us players. I figure, "what the hell," and sit down to play (6-deck shoe game, similar to the one I know). I check my watch and realize I can stay only about 20 minutes, but I walk out $35 up. I grab another Uber back to the strip and make my convention activity just in time.
My notable hand of the day: I was dealt 6-6 v. dealer 4. I split, get dealt a 5 (but can't double!), and then a 7. On to the 2nd 6, and am dealt a third 6, so I split again, am dealt an 8 and stand. For the the third hand I'm dealt a fourth 6 (!) and I split one last time. My third 6 receives a 3, but again no doubling, so I hit and get a 10. On my fourth 6 I get dealt a 10 and stand. So, in a double deck game I have 50% of all the 6s available. A player to my right had a 6, too. And, of course the dealer turns over another 6, for a total of 10! She draws a face card for 20 and I lose all four bets. Grrrr!
So, all in all I left Vegas down about $80. Not too bad. It was a good time, and I look forward to another visit there someday.
Theorie
Quote: theoriemeisterFinal update. I had a lot of free time on Saturday, so I decided to Uber it to Main St. Station downtown, mostly because I wanted to try Triple 7 brewery beer, but as I'm discovering, there's also a casino there, and I figured the rules would be better than what one can find on the strip--and I felt certain that there would be $5 tables (and there were).
So, no tasting room, but I quickly figure out that if I play I can get free beer. I scope out some of the tables and ask the dealer to explain some of the rules. 2 decks, I notice. (I've never played a double deck game.) I also notice that all the hands are dealt face down, also new to me--and I also learn that they can only be touched by one hand at a time--but I soon learn how to do all the right signals. (It also seemed to me that keeping the cards covered hinders card counting a little, at least for beginners, because you don't have much time to take things in; cards are tossed onto the table and quickly scooped up by the dealer.)
So, before I sit down and play, I go off by the slots, grab a seat and look up a BS strategy chart for this game. I compare it with the one I'm familiar with and try to keep note of the differences. During the course of play I learn that there's no surrender, and no doubling after a split (new to me). (This got me wondering about which rules have the biggest affect on HE.)
The result: I played for about 3 hours or so. I quickly lost $100, bought in for another $100, and clawed my way back to almost even. So, I leave Main St. down about $20. I walk toward Fremont St. but stop at the Plaza and ask one of the dealer for directions. I notice that in this small "pit" all the dealers are these buxom young women showing lots of cleavage--clearly meant to distract us players. I figure, "what the hell," and sit down to play (6-deck shoe game, similar to the one I know). I check my watch and realize I can stay only about 20 minutes, but I walk out $35 up. I grab another Uber back to the strip and make my convention activity just in time.
My notable hand of the day: I was dealt 6-6 v. dealer 4. I split, get dealt a 5 (but can't double!), and then a 7. On to the 2nd 6, and am dealt a third 6, so I split again, am dealt an 8 and stand. For the the third hand I'm dealt a fourth 6 (!) and I split one last time. My third 6 receives a 3, but again no doubling, so I hit and get a 10. On my fourth 6 I get dealt a 10 and stand. So, in a double deck game I have 50% of all the 6s available. A player to my right had a 6, too. And, of course the dealer turns over another 6, for a total of 10! She draws a face card for 20 and I lose all four bets. Grrrr!
So, all in all I left Vegas down about $80. Not too bad. It was a good time, and I look forward to another visit there someday.
Theorie
Just make sure you stay away from 6-8 deck pre shuffled chinese prison cards and youll be fine. Stick to double deck as they come in order and are shown to its patrons.
Well, I'm back home now, so I won't be playing anything in LV for a while. But thanks for the advice anyway. I was actually quite surprised that even with 8 decks , most of the dealers hand shuffled them. Man, that takes forever!
Not surprisingly, I saw only 2-3 players the whole time I was there who looked like they knew what they were doing. Man, the excuses I heard as to why they do/do not do certain things was astounding: "I always lose when I split my 8s," "I never split aces 'cause you get only 1 card each," "I know I'm supposed to do this [like hit 14 v. dealer 7], but sometimes I know I'll bust if I do it, so I don't, etc., etc." No wonder you folks in here get such a kick out of the ploppies.
Theorie
Never mind. I was thinking of puppies. My bad.
Quote: theoriemeisterHi Zen,
Well, I'm back home now, so I won't be playing anything in LV for a while. But thanks for the advice anyway. I was actually quite surprised that even with 8 decks , most of the dealers hand shuffled them. Man, that takes forever!
Not surprisingly, I saw only 2-3 players the whole time I was there who looked like they knew what they were doing. Man, the excuses I heard as to why they do/do not do certain things was astounding: "I always lose when I split my 8s," "I never split aces 'cause you get only 1 card each," "I know I'm supposed to do this [like hit 14 v. dealer 7], but sometimes I know I'll bust if I do it, so I don't, etc., etc." No wonder you folks in here get such a kick out of the ploppies.
Theorie
The games in vegas are most likely fair, but the suspicious procedures not only in vegas but around the country are ridiculous. I dont know how you can offer a service to your patrons, which are basically your customers, and not show some transparency by showing the cards and have them come in order. That's my biggest issue with all of this. Anyone with a brain would feel suspicious. I dont give a rats ass about some shufflemaster machine that checks if all the cards are there blah blah blah, show some transparency to your customer base if you expect them to offer money for your product or in this case, to play. The casinos argument is that it speeds it up. If this is their idea of a profit maximizing strategy that's about as pathetic as it goes and as stupid as it gets because dealers still have to check the cards for any marks and the biggest thing is that when they change the cards, by the time they're finished, 95% of the time no ones even there to play, the tables EMPTY. So those 2 minutes you saved went completely out the window. Whole thing is ridiculous and shady at best.
Quote: theoriemeisterSo here's my question: is it really worth my time/effort to find a 6-deck game? Does .03% really make a difference?
I'm a big craft beer guy, so I'm going to check out Ellis Island.
Why did you go to Ellis Island? You could have had Miller where you were. You made the trek for quality and adventure.
Its the same thing with that 03 percent. If its handy, take it. If its a trek, don't bother. The qualilty difference won't be all that much and one more tip to the waitress can negate that entire difference.
If you are playing 300 hands of blackjack over a weekend, that's 300 hands. You can only have a finite result. A difference of 0.3% in HA means that over 300 hands, one of those hands will likely end up costing you due to a rule variance. And your variance over 300 hands is much higher than that.
For someone who is coming to play on a weekend for a few hours, I wouldn't worry about minor rule variations like the # of decks. The only major rule that I would think about is the 6:5 BJ which costs more than 1%. For the rest of the games you will be between generally 0.303% (El Cortez $5) and 0.639% (most non-strip casinos, $5). It's not worth it to scope out a game for .336% when you are only going to play for a few hours. In that case, scope out ambience.
Plenty of games at $10 up and down the strip that offer 3:2 if you know where to look (also time of day I suppose and day of week). Much better ambiance. Yes, you double your exposure, but if you are playing a good game at .56% you are looking at 5.6 cents a hand or $18 over 300 hands vs $9 at a $5 table.
Just have fun.
Only regular gamblers should be seeking out the low HA games. If you are going to gamble a couple of weekends a year the variance will cloud out the house advantage anyway.
Or maybe the decks are stacked at the strip casinos, like ZK says. ;)
I'm not sure what you mean by suspicious procedures. Even on a gambling boat which took quite some time to get to international waters, passengers were always able to wander up to the casino and watch the decks being shuffled. No conversation with the dealers, no buy ins, just have some drinks and wait for the bell that indicated arrival in International Waters. Deck after deck being shuffled and placed into the shoe was done openly. It wasn't done to please the players, it was done to keep the dealers honest.Quote: ZenKinG
The games in vegas are most likely fair, but the suspicious procedures not only in vegas but around the country are ridiculous. I dont know how you can offer a service to your patrons, which are basically your customers, and not show some transparency by showing the cards and have them come in order.
Quote: FleaStiffI'm not sure what you mean by suspicious procedures. Even on a gambling boat which took quite some time to get to international waters, passengers were always able to wander up to the casino and watch the decks being shuffled. No conversation with the dealers, no buy ins, just have some drinks and wait for the bell that indicated arrival in International Waters. Deck after deck being shuffled and placed into the shoe was done openly. It wasn't done to please the players, it was done to keep the dealers honest.
Well i guess you havent read all of my posts in the past. Basically my problem is they dont show you the cards face up and they dont come in order. How can a patron like myself be sure all the cards are in there? They claim the ASM machine checks for them and that the machine can sort by denomination amd even tell you which exact card is missing. I just wish they would show some transparency like ARIA and have the cards come in ordwr and face up. Thats all. Like i said, im sure the game is likely fair, but the suspicous procedures dony make any sense and can lead to some corruption especially when they then claim to do it that way as a profit strategy which makes absolutely no sense as i stated before.
You've a better chance of drinking cheaper booze than you ordered than to have the decks missing a few.
Handheld decks are often still displayed so the floor can see there are no moving spots on the backs of the cards and that the deck is complete.
You are worrying about something that is an absolute waste of your time.
Now of course if you were playing in a Seminole casino, I might be interested in hearing more, but ...
Quote: boymimboI just read this.
If you are playing 300 hands of blackjack over a weekend, that's 300 hands. You can only have a finite result. A difference of 0.3% in HA means that over 300 hands, one of those hands will likely end up costing you due to a rule variance. And your variance over 300 hands is much higher than that.
For someone who is coming to play on a weekend for a few hours, I wouldn't worry about minor rule variations like the # of decks. The only major rule that I would think about is the 6:5 BJ which costs more than 1%. For the rest of the games you will be between generally 0.303% (El Cortez $5) and 0.639% (most non-strip casinos, $5). It's not worth it to scope out a game for .336% when you are only going to play for a few hours. In that case, scope out ambience.
Plenty of games at $10 up and down the strip that offer 3:2 if you know where to look (also time of day I suppose and day of week). Much better ambiance. Yes, you double your exposure, but if you are playing a good game at .56% you are looking at 5.6 cents a hand or $18 over 300 hands vs $9 at a $5 table.
Just have fun.
Only regular gamblers should be seeking out the low HA games. If you are going to gamble a couple of weekends a year the variance will cloud out the house advantage anyway.
Or maybe the decks are stacked at the strip casinos, like ZK says. ;)
Thanks, boymimbo. I've only been playing BJ for a couple of years now and am still curious about it all. Next time I visit LV, I'll just bring more bankroll and seek out the 3:2 games--if there are any left! lol Still, it was good to visit downtown ("old Las Vegas") and play an 'old school' type of blackjack. One final note, Spanish 21 is incredibly popular in the Pacific NW--the local card room where I play has a single BJ table but 3 (!) Spanish tables--and yet I did not see a single table while in LV.
Quote: ZenKinGWell i guess you havent read all of my posts in the past. Basically my problem is they dont show you the cards face up and they dont come in order. How can a patron like myself be sure all the cards are in there? They claim the ASM machine checks for them and that the machine can sort by denomination amd even tell you which exact card is missing. I just wish they would show some transparency like ARIA and have the cards come in ordwr and face up. Thats all. Like i said, im sure the game is likely fair, but the suspicous procedures dony make any sense and can lead to some corruption especially when they then claim to do it that way as a profit strategy which makes absolutely no sense as i stated before.
Gaming regulations are very strict in Nevada. That includes cards and dice. Casinos would be fined heavily if they were found playing with crooked decks and the bad press that an MGM or CZR property would get from being caught on their most popular game would be devastating.
You should also realize that there are a bunch of people from MGM and CZR who read these forums all of time and you see them interject from time to time. In my opinion, the industry watches what this site is doing. There are also plenty of inside people who have left these casinos who would tell us if the decks were crooked. We would also see on the profit sheets a higher hold percentage for Blackjack on the strip casinos vs the downtown casinos.
Latest gaming revenue report
But here's a hint. 21 statewide for the last 12 months running is showing a win % of 14.42%. (148 casinos, 2,597 tables).
Clark county is 14.28%
Downtown is 13.71%
Strip is 14.14% (12 - 36 million dollar is showing 4 locations, 33 tables and 17.92%, 36-72 million showing 6 locations, 152 tables, 14.21%, 72 million+ showing 24 locations, 1,118 tables and 14.11% win)
North Las Vegas 20.28%
Laughlin 17.58%
Boulder 15.63%
Mesquite 16.78%
Rest of Clark 14.49%
Tahoe 15.78%
Elko 19.32%
Washoe (Reno) 14.57%
Blackjack composes about 12% of the revenue pie statewide, 15% on the strip, with 1 cent slots making more than Blackjack does. Bacarrat is the largest game on the Vegas strip making about as much as 1 cent slots
So in short, no evidence of the strip commanding more win % compared to the rest of Clark county or the state average. If the cards were gaffed you'd see a spike in those numbers on the strip with gaming likely raising more than an eyebrow.
Quote: boymimboGaming regulations are very strict in Nevada. That includes cards and dice. Casinos would be fined heavily if they were found playing with crooked decks and the bad press that an MGM or CZR property would get from being caught on their most popular game would be devastating.
You should also realize that there are a bunch of people from MGM and CZR who read these forums all of time and you see them interject from time to time. In my opinion, the industry watches what this site is doing. There are also plenty of inside people who have left these casinos who would tell us if the decks were crooked. We would also see on the profit sheets a higher hold percentage for Blackjack on the strip casinos vs the downtown casinos.
Latest gaming revenue report
But here's a hint. 21 statewide for the last 12 months running is showing a win % of 14.42%. (148 casinos, 2,597 tables).
Clark county is 14.28%
Downtown is 13.71%
Strip is 14.14% (12 - 36 million dollar is showing 4 locations, 33 tables and 17.92%, 36-72 million showing 6 locations, 152 tables, 14.21%, 72 million+ showing 24 locations, 1,118 tables and 14.11% win)
North Las Vegas 20.28%
Laughlin 17.58%
Boulder 15.63%
Mesquite 16.78%
Rest of Clark 14.49%
Tahoe 15.78%
Elko 19.32%
Washoe (Reno) 14.57%
Blackjack composes about 12% of the revenue pie statewide, 15% on the strip, with 1 cent slots making more than Blackjack does. Bacarrat is the largest game on the Vegas strip making about as much as 1 cent slots
So in short, no evidence of the strip commanding more win % compared to the rest of Clark county or the state average. If the cards were gaffed you'd see a spike in those numbers on the strip with gaming likely raising more than an eyebrow.
Well, go ahead and explain to me how a casino can get caught when a gaming commission agent literally told me they dont check the cards either. They claimed they do periodic checks, but i have never ever seen a gaming agent inside a casino go up to a table. The only ones who knows what's in that pile of preshuffled chinese prison cards is some china shop halfway across the world and the top executives of these corporations.
The story about the prison is a joke.
Quote: ZenKinGQuote: boymimboGaming regulations are very strict in Nevada. That includes cards and dice. Casinos would be fined heavily if they were found playing with crooked decks and the bad press that an MGM or CZR property would get from being caught on their most popular game would be devastating.
You should also realize that there are a bunch of people from MGM and CZR who read these forums all of time and you see them interject from time to time. In my opinion, the industry watches what this site is doing. There are also plenty of inside people who have left these casinos who would tell us if the decks were crooked. We would also see on the profit sheets a higher hold percentage for Blackjack on the strip casinos vs the downtown casinos.
Latest gaming revenue report
But here's a hint. 21 statewide for the last 12 months running is showing a win % of 14.42%. (148 casinos, 2,597 tables).
Clark county is 14.28%
Downtown is 13.71%
Strip is 14.14% (12 - 36 million dollar is showing 4 locations, 33 tables and 17.92%, 36-72 million showing 6 locations, 152 tables, 14.21%, 72 million+ showing 24 locations, 1,118 tables and 14.11% win)
North Las Vegas 20.28%
Laughlin 17.58%
Boulder 15.63%
Mesquite 16.78%
Rest of Clark 14.49%
Tahoe 15.78%
Elko 19.32%
Washoe (Reno) 14.57%
Blackjack composes about 12% of the revenue pie statewide, 15% on the strip, with 1 cent slots making more than Blackjack does. Bacarrat is the largest game on the Vegas strip making about as much as 1 cent slots
So in short, no evidence of the strip commanding more win % compared to the rest of Clark county or the state average. If the cards were gaffed you'd see a spike in those numbers on the strip with gaming likely raising more than an eyebrow.
Well, go ahead and explain to me how a casino can get caught when a gaming commission agent literally told me they dont check the cards either. They claimed they do periodic checks, but i have never ever seen a gaming agent inside a casino go up to a table. The only ones who knows what's in that pile of preshuffled chinese prison cards is some china shop halfway across the world and the top executives of these corporations.
The revenue numbers and percent wins don't support your last paragraph and your claims that strip casinos are gaffing the games. And (apparently) you're not stupid, ZK. You could actually sit at one of the tables and count cards and come to the realization that in a six deck game with a 50% penetration that after about 10 shoes you would see every card coming out of that shoe and could verify for yourself. You say the decks are rigged and you have the capability to count cards. Tell us what cards are missing. Is it the 10 of hearts? The Jack of spades? Is it different in each deck?
Quote: boymimboQuote: ZenKinGQuote: boymimboGaming regulations are very strict in Nevada. That includes cards and dice. Casinos would be fined heavily if they were found playing with crooked decks and the bad press that an MGM or CZR property would get from being caught on their most popular game would be devastating.
You should also realize that there are a bunch of people from MGM and CZR who read these forums all of time and you see them interject from time to time. In my opinion, the industry watches what this site is doing. There are also plenty of inside people who have left these casinos who would tell us if the decks were crooked. We would also see on the profit sheets a higher hold percentage for Blackjack on the strip casinos vs the downtown casinos.
Latest gaming revenue report
But here's a hint. 21 statewide for the last 12 months running is showing a win % of 14.42%. (148 casinos, 2,597 tables).
Clark county is 14.28%
Downtown is 13.71%
Strip is 14.14% (12 - 36 million dollar is showing 4 locations, 33 tables and 17.92%, 36-72 million showing 6 locations, 152 tables, 14.21%, 72 million+ showing 24 locations, 1,118 tables and 14.11% win)
North Las Vegas 20.28%
Laughlin 17.58%
Boulder 15.63%
Mesquite 16.78%
Rest of Clark 14.49%
Tahoe 15.78%
Elko 19.32%
Washoe (Reno) 14.57%
Blackjack composes about 12% of the revenue pie statewide, 15% on the strip, with 1 cent slots making more than Blackjack does. Bacarrat is the largest game on the Vegas strip making about as much as 1 cent slots
So in short, no evidence of the strip commanding more win % compared to the rest of Clark county or the state average. If the cards were gaffed you'd see a spike in those numbers on the strip with gaming likely raising more than an eyebrow.
Well, go ahead and explain to me how a casino can get caught when a gaming commission agent literally told me they dont check the cards either. They claimed they do periodic checks, but i have never ever seen a gaming agent inside a casino go up to a table. The only ones who knows what's in that pile of preshuffled chinese prison cards is some china shop halfway across the world and the top executives of these corporations.
The revenue numbers and percent wins don't support your last paragraph and your claims that strip casinos are gaffing the games. And (apparently) you're not stupid, ZK. You could actually sit at one of the tables and count cards and come to the realization that in a six deck game with a 50% penetration that after about 10 shoes you would see every card coming out of that shoe and could verify for yourself. You say the decks are rigged and you have the capability to count cards. Tell us what cards are missing. Is it the 10 of hearts? The Jack of spades? Is it different in each deck?
With all due respect, you clearly don't know what card counting consists of. You are not tracking individual suits and denominations. Were you being sarcastic?
You are claiming that the decks are rigged. To verify that, you can look for individual cards. That's what I would do. I would flat bet $25 all day and verify that all the cards are present in the decks. One way would be to count the frequency of each card on the sample size and perform statistical analysis on the cards. For example, count face cards and divide by the total cards dealt. Write down the results. If the results are consistently under 4/13ths then you know that the Chinese are shorting you face cards. Do the same with 3s to 6s. If the results are consistently over 3/13ths then you know that the Chinese are giving you extra low cards. Better yet, your true count totals at the end of each shoe should help you. If it is always coming out negative then you know that high cards are missing or low cards are excessive. That would be easy enough to do.
There are ways to prove that you are right or wrong.
Quote: boymimboNo. I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I know exactly what card counting is. I've done it. Successfully. But my day job working from home 80% is far more profitable and fun.
You are claiming that the decks are rigged. To verify that, you can look for individual cards. That's what I would do. I would flat bet $25 all day and verify that all the cards are present in the decks. One way would be to count the frequency of each card on the sample size and perform statistical analysis on the cards. For example, count face cards and divide by the total cards dealt. Write down the results. If the results are consistently under 4/13ths then you know that the Chinese are shorting you face cards. Do the same with 3s to 6s. If the results are consistently over 3/13ths then you know that the Chinese are giving you extra low cards. Better yet, your true count totals at the end of each shoe should help you. If it is always coming out negative then you know that high cards are missing or low cards are excessive. That would be easy enough to do.
There are ways to prove that you are right or wrong.
With most casinos cutting off 1.5 or more on 6 deckers and 8 deckers, even if you sat there day after day, you would never get sufficient information to get a good feel for what's actually left. Maybe if casinos were cutting off a half deck or less, your test might work. From the time ive played so far i havent had many extreme TCs at the end of a shoe anyway so doing your test would leave me with the same information as i started with.
All in all, im sure the game is fair anyway, it's just the shady procedures ive seen not only here but in PA as well and i dont understand it one bit. All it does is kill the transparency between the patron and casino. To make things worse they claim they do it as a profit maximizing strategy LOL. Yea some strategy that is, when 95% of the time tables are empty after changing the cards or opening up a table for gaming that day.
For example, a couple of days ago I was up in Reno playing PGP and the cards were changed. Normally, I take that cue to run to the bathroom and come back. On a long change of cards I would have sauntered off to something else and meander back 20 - 30 minutes later. In this case, because the cards were getting changed much more quickly I had to move a bit quicker. Nonetheless, I went to the bathroom, went to find my glasses in the restaurant (they were there), looked for my wife (she disappeared and went up to our room) and then I scoped out a VP DW Progressive game .25 where the night before I had knocked up the 4D progressive from $320 to $413 all by myself. The machine was locked out earlier in the day and it opened up and I noticed that the 4D jackpot was now up to $498. Apparently that locked game was being held for someone to pick off that Jackpot (at $413 the game becomes a 1.2% player advantage). So I played it and within about 2 minutes it hit and recovered the $300 I had tossed into the game on the previous night (a 7x Comp multiplier helped). Anyway, the whole excursion took 10 minutes and by the time I was back the PGP had already played 5 hands since the shuffle.
Any strategy that saves the casino time is good for the casino. It means that on the Saturday swing shifts when tables are about to open they can open 15 minutes quicker. Most people believe in the cards. What they don't believe in is the shuffling machine or the dealer.
Quote: boymimboMost casinos change cards every few hours. The changing of cards when people are already at the table is why they do this. A fifteen minute wait to do a card change will send players to other tables or worse yet a meal or a departure from the casino. A two minute wait means that the players stick around or go to the bathroom and come right back. The profitability issue comes mid-day when they change cards and there are people already playing. They follow the same procedures whether it is at beginning of day or end of day.
For example, a couple of days ago I was up in Reno playing PGP and the cards were changed. Normally, I take that cue to run to the bathroom and come back. On a long change of cards I would have sauntered off to something else and meander back 20 - 30 minutes later. In this case, because the cards were getting changed much more quickly I had to move a bit quicker. Nonetheless, I went to the bathroom, went to find my glasses in the restaurant (they were there), looked for my wife (she disappeared and went up to our room) and then I scoped out a VP DW Progressive game .25 where the night before I had knocked up the 4D progressive from $320 to $413 all by myself. The machine was locked out earlier in the day and it opened up and I noticed that the 4D jackpot was now up to $498. Apparently that locked game was being held for someone to pick off that Jackpot (at $413 the game becomes a 1.2% player advantage). So I played it and within about 2 minutes it hit and recovered the $300 I had tossed into the game on the previous night (a 7x Comp multiplier helped). Anyway, the whole excursion took 10 minutes and by the time I was back the PGP had already played 5 hands since the shuffle.
Any strategy that saves the casino time is good for the casino. It means that on the Saturday swing shifts when tables are about to open they can open 15 minutes quicker. Most people believe in the cards. What they don't believe in is the shuffling machine or the dealer.
Caainos only change the cards once a day for shoe games. I already confirmed that. They also only change it around 4am when its dead and no ones there. So again tell me how this is a profit strategy?
No, I don't see how Baccarat and MiniBacc have different win rates when its same rules just different amounts bet and differently dressed dealers.
As to prisons and cards... the used cards are sorted as part of a prison labor contract. No other involvement.
And New Mexico casinos actually force the dealers to sort the cards into proper order before the deck is retired which is very boring work.
