RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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July 6th, 2017 at 2:01:09 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Ummm.

It's not often I can say this board changed my life, but today is one of those days. Not sure I will ever leave my toothbrush accessible again.

This is a thing? OMG. I'm completely repulsed.

As to tipping. I'm a demiGeorge.

However, I saw something done a while back at a table, and I would like to ask why I haven't seen more of it. First seen at a craps table (2 way place 6/8), then a bj table same chain but 1000 miles away.

Bet placed for dealers. Bet wins. Dealer takes win but leaves original chip working, just like player's bet.

Genius.

Tried it somewhere else when I felt like tip as you go was worth doing; was told house doesn't allow it.

Why is the default most places to take both chips, other than -ev game? Why would some houses allow it and not others? Is there an accepted way to ask for your played tips to be handled this way?

I would be placing bets for dealers much more often if they worked them, since I would get that much better value for my tip money. They would make more in the long run, because I would keep them in when the table's running good. And I'm not seeing a constant drain on my wins to nearly the same percentage (similar to the play - til you lose promo chip, instead of take the chip win or lose type.)



At a casino I worked at many moons ago, a player tipped $2, said for me to play it however I like, and he left. Oh hell yeah!! I don't remember specifically the starting bets, but probably did a $2 four, it hit then went to a $5 nine, it hit, went to a $12 six, it hit, went to a $24 six and a $2 hard six.....Long story short, I got it up to $150 on the six and eight (or thereabouts) with some good action on the hard ways, and had already locked up at least $200. That guy was rolling for quite a while. When I got tapped out, the next dealer was a total b**** and took down our bets. I think he was scared he'd get fired because we weren't actually allowed to do that. The shooter was still shooting when I got back from break. :( Dealers probably made more money than all the players that roll, all from that $2 tip. LOL It's sad to see a 45 minute roll and everyone still has minimum on the pass, a $6 or maybe $12 six/eight, and nothing else.

I don't play craps often, but when I do, I go straight f***ing HAM.



On an off-note, I and several members here witnessed Wizard getting tipped by a dealer when we were playing poker at the WOV Spring Fling thing.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
Canyonero
Canyonero
Joined: Nov 19, 2012
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July 6th, 2017 at 3:10:07 AM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

I said you were taking something without paying for it. This is objectively true. Somebody is doing work for you, and in exchange you give them nothing. You are getting their work. You are not paying for it.



Here - in my opinion - is your misconception: The dealer does not work for the player. They work for the casino. If you don't believe that, try sending them on a break and dealing to yourself for a while. The dealers do work for the casino, and in exchange the casino underpays them.

I live in an environment (Switzerland) where tipping is not expected (but possible). I have never met anyone here in the service industry that believes "You know what would be great? A lower base salary in exchange for (a chance to) higher tips."
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
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July 6th, 2017 at 6:41:16 AM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

I live in an environment (Switzerland) where tipping is not expected (but possible).



When I eat seafood, I like it with LOTSA tartar sauce. When dining at a restaurant in Australia, the server brought a tiny spoonful of tartar sauce in a picturesque little seashell. I explained I used a LOT of tartar sauce, and asked if she could she bring a larger portion. She brought 2 more sea shells of sauce. I said she was getting warmer. She said she would keep a keen eye on me, and I would not have to do without.

Long story short, it was a great meal, and she kept the tartar sauce supply sufficient for my needs. After paying my check, I rose to leave and gave her a 10 percent tip. She could not stop thanking me, walking with me all the way to the door to the restaurant. Of course, in Australia (in 1998, at least), they apparently paid staff a fair wage, and tips were very rare. I have always thought that was a much better system than the gimmie-gimmie-gimmie tip system we have in this country.
DogHand
DogHand
Joined: Sep 24, 2011
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July 6th, 2017 at 7:26:36 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

<snip>I would be placing bets for dealers much more often if they worked them, since I would get that much better value for my tip money. They would make more in the long run, because I would keep them in when the table's running good. And I'm not seeing a constant drain on my wins to nearly the same percentage (similar to the play - til you lose promo chip, instead of take the chip win or lose type.)



beachbumbabs,

Instead of placing the tip wager in front of your bet, place it on top. Then, when your bet wins, slide the winnings from the tip to the dealer, and place the original tip wager atop your next bet. This way, if you get on a hot streak, the dealer(s)* receive many times the original tip.

Drawbacks:
1. If the first try loses, the dealer gets nothing: in that case, just say "Sorry WE didn't win!" Most dealers will understand.

2. If your own wager is at the table max, obviously you cannot do this.

3. If you split, you're obligated to match the tip. Naturally, you're not obligated to give the "additional" tip winnings, but not doing so looks really tacky.

4. If you DD, you needn't match the tip, but not doing so looks really tacky.

5. If you try this with a 50¢ or $2.50 chip, be sure to tell the dealer not to color it up. For example, if your tip chip is pink, tell the dealer, "Keep the pink." You rarely have to tell the same dealer twice: they're pretty good at remembering.

*I say dealerS, because most casinos pool the dealers' tips.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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July 6th, 2017 at 9:28:49 AM permalink
There are things that bother me about tipping overall which is "what is the value of work?". I miss PGD in these discussions.

A casino dealer goes to a few weeks of school and ends up dealing cards on the casino floor for minimum wage. He is effectively in a career with the chance to move up the ladder via the pit, security, surveillance, etc. Dealers will stay in their position because they don't qualify for the additional responsibility or don't want additional responsibility or they are making a good wage from tips and like their position. Clearly, the game they deal has wide variability for tipping. A $10 6:5 BJ table on a Tuesday night at Ellis Island in January will likely yield far less in tips than a Saturday night $50 3:2 Blackjack table at Caesar's palace. And different games have different tipping scenarios. It's variable. But the three largest common denominators for tipping is player winning, dealer customer service, and player willingness. Playing willingness is governed by a factor of etiquette (is tipping expected), attitude (do I like tipping), mood (do I factor in previous losses / wins into the amount I tip), and drunkenness (inhibitions are down).

If tipping just went away via a NRS statute, I think most dealers would walk.

For housekeeping, you either clean well or you don't on a particular day. It is a basic skill requiring labor and attention to detail. There is no opportunity to advance and you know that they are getting paid very close to minimum wage for menial full-time work. Some are far better than others. We had a maid leave someone else's BRA in our room (leading my wife into a panic, of course thank the lord SHE knew I was never in the room when she wasn't, leading me to ask her if she was sleeping with the maid, and whether there was video).

Frankly, it is completely up to you on whether you believe that what they are making is what they should be making, and tip accordingly. For me, I believe that minimum wage should be higher than what they are making, and I tip accordingly.

No, I don't tip grocery store workers (you could make the choice to shop at a unionized grocery store like Safeway) where workers are paid more. So there are industries where people do make less than you thin k they should and there is little you can do about it except agree to minimum wage hikes for all.

I also tip less at unionized casinos than I do at other shops.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
StrangeMage
StrangeMage
Joined: Oct 22, 2015
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July 6th, 2017 at 11:53:43 AM permalink
Quote: DogHand

Here's all you need to know about AP tipping:

Go to this link:

https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/showthread.php?30714-Tipping-Psychology-vs-EV

and page down to find "Dog Hand's Tipping Guidelines to Ensure Longevity"

Dog Hand



lol, this was hilarious DogHand!

i'm a moderate to light tipper and that's only when the dealer has clearly made an effort above the rest of the crew to make my time more enjoyable. however, i haven't ever seen anybody's argument FOR tipping persuade me in the lightest. in any context.

a majority of the world has plenty of small businesses that survive just fine without tipping. both small and large businesses. the world won't come crashing down if we all did away with tipping altogether. just means up top someone takes a paycut and has more fixed overhead costs. more risk for the business, but the world will find a way to survive.
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
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July 6th, 2017 at 12:52:16 PM permalink
Quote: Calder

Don't know if it is. In Wisconsin players often tip by betting for the crew and specifying "player control." If it hits, the player may specify how to handle the win: parlay, drop part and let the rest ride, use the win to place another number, lock it all up, etc.

Though a couple weeks ago I was told by boxmen at two different casinos in Deadwood, SD that it was against state law to allow player control, though no one seemed to know why. I could only take them at their word. While $1 place bets were rounded up (a $1 placed 6 and the crew dropped $3), they miss out on those parlayed hardways...



Calder,

I very much enjoyed your bet comments -- and the comments of others, like BBB, Canyonero, and mamat -- about tipping options (yes, no, or maybe). I wonder if the rules change from state to state or from casino to casino.

For example, when I began gambling at casinos about 20 years ago (mostly) in southern Mississippi, I read a lot about options one might use when placing bets for dealers. When I tried to place bets for dealers with "player control" at the craps table, I was told (in more than one Biloxi casino), "Buddy, we don't do it THAT way." So, my dealer bets had to stand alone. Dealer bets (base amount and winnings) were immediately swept into the toke box if they won, and immediately locked up by the House if they lost. Same way for dealer bets on UTH and other table games.

I'd love to know if other Biloxi (or Mississippi) gamblers have had different dealer bet options where they played. And, I'm also interested in knowing what other gambling venues (casinos, states, or countries) allow, especially if what they allow differs from what I encountered.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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July 6th, 2017 at 2:14:26 PM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

Here - in my opinion - is your misconception: The dealer does not work for the player. They work for the casino. If you don't believe that, try sending them on a break and dealing to yourself for a while. The dealers do work for the casino, and in exchange the casino underpays them.

I live in an environment (Switzerland) where tipping is not expected (but possible). I have never met anyone here in the service industry that believes "You know what would be great? A lower base salary in exchange for (a chance to) higher tips."



Now this is a decent argument.

However, i would say that when someone makes min wage or less and tips are expected, while the customer is not the employer or boss, the are the one designated to pay most of the labor costs.

As i said, that happens in any case. Wages ware never delivered by any other source. Either you pay a higher bill and the boss pays workers or you pay a lower bill and customers pay them on the honor system. But all of a restaurant orcasinos money comes from customers.

There are pros and cons. But Europe is generally much much more labor friendly than the us. Here the majority of tipped jobs are lower middle class-waiter, valet, dealer, limo or taxi (pre uber). While most other service jobs pay around the poverty line.

I think this is largely because tips circmvent market pressures because most people gain utility from tipping, knowing that the worker gets the money. It's a personal interaction.

That's why many players are upset to learn of tip pools and some tip less when the find out.
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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July 6th, 2017 at 5:49:30 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Now this is a decent argument.



Hah, now there's a cheap shot by implication.

Look, you may not like my argument, but you never refuted it successfully.

If I see someone repeatedly telling customers they need to finish paying his/her salary I'll laugh my butt off.

If they go to management to complain that customers aren't fulfilling their salary obligation my donkey will also laugh his ass off.

If I can find anything else around with a posterior it will also be laughing.

So moan and groan and wave your hands about and proclaim you're right --- doesn't change a thing.

Thank you -- now don't forget to tip the waitresses.
prisoner of gravity
MaxPen
MaxPen
Joined: Feb 4, 2015
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Thanks for this post from:
beachbumbabsRigondeauxRSDeMango
July 6th, 2017 at 6:37:14 PM permalink
In my experience, non tippers are rarely people you'd want to be associated with. They're often very entitled, ignorant or narcissistic people who have never worked in the service industry and quite possibly haven't worked a day in their lives. In essence, being a non tipper is a sign of poor character.

It's one thing to debate a tip on a $500 meal vs. a $5 meal but to not tip at all in the US is an argument that cannot be made. In most states servers are not paid even minimum wage. They receive servers wages and it is understood that tipping is a requirement. They are actually taxed based on a percentage of total receipts. So yes, if you do not tip your server it is theft of service. No way to argue against it.

Dealers, maids, drivers, and many others at least make minimum wage. Also there are instances where servers are unionized with established fixed wages. If you know this then a proper amount is open to debate in these rare exceptions. Otherwise waitresses and waiters need to be tipped.
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