D Day in Vegas
My point from before is that even if they are cheating you... you shouldn't care because you should be cheating them to the point that they can't win!
Quote: IbeatyouracesYou'll only see all the cards face up when they first open a table or during a card changes which is usually very early in the morning. This is standard procedure all over the country.
Then it's the same as in PA. But since it's preshuffled it's almost impossible to see if there's something missing because they flip it over for 3 seconds and thats it. Why dont they just order cards that are in 'order'? for easy speculation? The only casino I seen do this is Delaware Park in Delaware. That's how you run a business. No shady BS. Order the cards in order and not preshuffled for easy viewing. Preshuffled just throws up another red flag. Ordering cards ten thousand miles away and having them come preshuffled? Why? So you cant see if everything is in there?
I would never EVER open my mouth in a casino if i could just see if all the cards are there. It's not hard and casinos should be doing this anyway without me asking. Show some integrity. No matter what game it is, if i know all the cards are there, that's all that matters and you would never hear a word from me. That's the issue here and i dont udnerstand why it's wrong for me to ask this question? Are people seriously this naive on this forum and believe everything the casino tells them?
Quote: RSCasinos in LV spread the cards face up when they introduce new cards. At least, I've never seen new cards introduced (in BJ) without them being face up.
If it's pre-shuffled it's irrelevant, because its nearly impossible to inspect if every card is in there and not some substitute cards. You would literally have to take them out one by one and group it. All the dealers do is count the 'number' of cards there are. But instead of 128 ten value cards in an 8 deck shoe, there might be 120 and 8 extra 5's for example giving a precise count to the dealer and no one batting an eye or even worse 112 ten value cards and 16 extra 5's.
Quote: ZenKinGI understand the math. For the last time, it's not the losing, its the procedures in place that make me doubt the game. Ive lost all of my 25k profit before in a span of 150 hours after 400 hours of play only to make back 42k, so i know the swings of the game. The thing that is frustrating me is the shady procedures so far in this town. Casinos getting cards from China. Commission telling me that they dont even inspect the cards that these casinos get their cards from, all of that just shot up red flags.
And just let me say this one more time. I really cant stand how i lose credibility on this forum and with people by simply asking a simple honest question. Show me the cards, its not that hard. I would never say anything to anyone in the casino again if i could simply see the cards with my own eyes so i know its a fair game. Why should I even have to ask this question. Casinos should be doing this automatically to show some integrity. All it takes is a minute max. How can you expect your customers to just sit down and play and take your word for it, when your whole industry relies on you taking their money. Just hilarious. And im the bad guy? Crazy. Dont even want to be a part of this forum if people cant understand where im coming from.
I understand why you're upset, and I agree casinos are shady as all hell at times. I realize you are probably just venting and wasn't criticizing you for that, you just said you are convinced they are cheating, and I explained why I am convinced they aren't.
I think you aren't getting a favorable response here for a few reasons. One being that several people warned you that you'd inevitably run into some tough times, and just need to stay the course. But whenever anyone tries to talk you off the ledge, you seem to get more frustrated.
What you are attempting to do takes incredible self discipline and trust in your process, and your posts, whether they are just rants/venting or not, do not get exude that type of attitude. I believe that's what was meant by burning bridges you don't know exist. There's people/groups on this forum who are very successful and would probably would be, at some point, willing to help you take this AP thing to the next level. But no one is going to take that risk on you with the erratic thought processes reflected in your posts.
That's just my $0.02 ... again I'm not an AP so take it with a grain of salt. But I think if you positioned your venting to solicit constructive advice, you would get just that, instead of the more sarcastic "We told you so" comments.
You are not only coming of as a whining loser, but are pushing the racists envelope. Should the casinos in Macau use cards made in America?
Quote: billryanSo China is rigging the cards? Would you feel better if they came from India? Pakistan? How would you feel if CET or MGM bought their own factory here in the USofA? Would that make you happier?
You are not only coming of as a whining loser, but are pushing the racists envelope. Should the casinos in Macau use cards made in America?
So getting something simple as 'cards' and something as cheap as 'cards' all the way across the world doesnt come across as strange to you? It has nothing to do with racism, but starts to bring in the fact that some shady things can happen when it's not done in the same country. Why not just order from USA? Ordering from other countries could be a way to bypass some regulations and get a stacked deck and not have the chinese company liable for anything. That's my point.
Quote: monet0412I feel bad only about you playing unrated. Your actually down more than 7k because of that. Think about this. I'm down about 15k for the last 3 weeks but every month right now I get about 12k in free play not to mention all the food and tournaments.
Comps in blackjack are pretty much useless, so it doesnt even matter. I wouldnt be getting much anyway especially with the short sessions approach that i am using.
Quote: ZenKinGComps in blackjack are pretty much useless, so it doesnt even matter. I wouldnt be getting much anyway especially with the short sessions approach that i am using.
Once again you are correct! I'm not sure what I was thinking about. Lack of sleep and experience on my part makes me look foolish again. Damn this thread/ forum!
Might also just put 75% of my bankroll into bitcoin or try and catch a falling knife in ASNA.
Quote: ZenKinGComps in blackjack are pretty much useless, so it doesnt even matter. I wouldnt be getting much anyway especially with the short sessions approach that i am using.
ICYMI, that was Sarcasm above. Fwiw, I haven't paid for a room or a meal in LV for the last 20 years. You don't know half what you think you do about how and when you get comps or what their value will be. I don't, either, but I'm not shortsighted enough to dismiss them out of hand.
As to the Chinese cards. Have you priced casino level cards lately? Are you aware that CET has been in severe financial trouble for most of a decade? And have you tried multiplying the number of decks thrown out x6 changes a day x 40 properties in a forced period of austerity with creditors and bankruptcy judges and shareholders and regulators all breathing down your neck?
Have you looked up the price of being found out of compliance with gaming by short-decking the customers yet? Here's one I know about; extrapolate what rhey would do with your hypothetical claim.
5 years ago, in January, a kid was walking through Harrah's LV. He stopped to watch a table in play. Nobody forced him to keep moving or sent him along verbally.
Not sure whether he was with an adult, but he didn't approach the table, try to play, or talk to anyone, and he was only there for a couple minutes. Gaming fined Harrah's $70,000. $70 freaking K for something they didn't even realize had happened.
CET could lose a property if it was systemically cheating their customers. The brand damage would be incalculable. If it were at the corporate level, like it would have to be to eff with the cards at the factory, the entire chain would go down.
Here's another example you may have missed of how they do business. A couple years ago, one of their casinos had a series of drawings, culminating in a single million dollar winner. (Horseshoe Cleveland? Somewhere in Ohio.) The crowd was huge. The name was drawn and announced on the PA. Screams and cheers; the guy was there, and ran up to claim his prize.
Balloon drop. Confetti flies. Congrats and pictures. Not 5 minutes later, another guy comes up. Same name. Different account. Nobody verified the first guy was the actual lucky account; turns out it was the 2nd guy who really won. What did the casino do?
They could have taken it away from the first guy. They could have split it. Nope; they awarded a 2nd million dollars. That's how much the reputation, the publicity, the perception of fairness and dreams come true mean to those businesses.
You need to get your head out of the paranoia and accusation space. Or you won't last another month.
Quote: ZenKinGIf it's pre-shuffled it's irrelevant, because its nearly impossible to inspect if every card is in there and not some substitute cards. You would literally have to take them out one by one and group it. All the dealers do is count the 'number' of cards there are. But instead of 128 ten value cards in an 8 deck shoe, there might be 120 and 8 extra 5's for example giving a precise count to the dealer and no one batting an eye or even worse 112 ten value cards and 16 extra 5's.
I'm not used to decks being preshuffled and didn't mention it. But every casino I've seen change the cards, they have been face up and in regular order where you can spot missing cards. I think the order is As to Ks, Kd to Ad, Ac to Kc, Kh to Ah. Some are all A-K. But never seen a preshuffled deck.
Yes I'm sure they do some wonky sh*t in PA but we're in real America, here in LV. :)
Quote: RSI'm not used to decks being preshuffled and didn't mention it. But every casino I've seen change the cards, they have been face up and in regular order where you can spot missing cards. I think the order is As to Ks, Kd to Ad, Ac to Kc, Kh to Ah. Some are all A-K. But never seen a preshuffled deck.
Yes I'm sure they do some wonky sh*t in PA but we're in real America, here in LV. :)
Every dealer i have asked and pit boss, they all say it comes pre shuffled. In PA it was the same way and i saw it with my own eyes it being pre shuffled. So you saying it comes in some order is either a flat out lie or you're talking about other games in the casino where of course they dont need to stack the deck like they do in blackjack.
Quote: beachbumbabsICYMI, that was Sarcasm above. Fwiw, I haven't paid for a room or a meal in LV for the last 20 years. You don't know half what you think you do about how and when you get comps or what their value will be. I don't, either, but I'm not shortsighted enough to dismiss them out of hand.
As to the Chinese cards. Have you priced casino level cards lately? Are you aware that CET has been in severe financial trouble for most of a decade? And have you tried multiplying the number of decks thrown out x6 changes a day x 40 properties in a forced period of austerity with creditors and bankruptcy judges and shareholders and regulators all breathing down your neck?
Have you looked up the price of being found out of compliance with gaming by short-decking the customers yet? Here's one I know about; extrapolate what rhey would do with your hypothetical claim.
5 years ago, in January, a kid was walking through Harrah's LV. He stopped to watch a table in play. Nobody forced him to keep moving or sent him along verbally.
Not sure whether he was with an adult, but he didn't approach the table, try to play, or talk to anyone, and he was only there for a couple minutes. Gaming fined Harrah's $70,000. $70 freaking K for something they didn't even realize had happened.
CET could lose a property if it was systemically cheating their customers. The brand damage would be incalculable. If it were at the corporate level, like it would have to be to eff with the cards at the factory, the entire chain would go down.
Here's another example you may have missed of how they do business. A couple years ago, one of their casinos had a series of drawings, culminating in a single million dollar winner. (Horseshoe Cleveland? Somewhere in Ohio.) The crowd was huge. The name was drawn and announced on the PA. Screams and cheers; the guy was there, and ran up to claim his prize.
Balloon drop. Confetti flies. Congrats and pictures. Not 5 minutes later, another guy comes up. Same name. Different account. Nobody verified the first guy was the actual lucky account; turns out it was the 2nd guy who really won. What did the casino do?
They could have taken it away from the first guy. They could have split it. Nope; they awarded a 2nd million dollars. That's how much the reputation, the publicity, the perception of fairness and dreams come true mean to those businesses.
You need to get your head out of the paranoia and accusation space. Or you won't last another month.
Go ahead and explain to me how they will be found not in compliance when the commission told me straight over the phone with open ears that THEY DONT INSPECT THE CARDS that the casinos buy it from. They dont inspect it when they RECEIVE IT and they dont inspect it at the END OF THE GAMING DAY either. I couldnt believe my ears either. At least in PA they put the cards in a see through bag and send it off to the commission. If gaming is not inspecting these cards, tell me again how these casinos would ever be found in non-compliance if the commission is never even CHECKING them. Oh wait, they claim they do 'random periodic checks' LOL. Not once have i ever seen one gaming agent randomly coming up to a table and checking the cards. I bet everyone else on this forum can attest to that fact also unless they want to lie to just make an argument. Sickening and disgusted. So now it all comes down to some shady chinese shop halfway across the world that is not liable to any US laws. Who the hell knows whats in those 6 decks. Ill tell you whats in there. A loaded deck with 4s, 5s, 6s, and 7s and a shorted 10 and Ace count.
It all makes sense now why those card counting movies came out and documentaries. They bring you to this rigged town to get your bankroll destroyed to a rigged deck. If you dig to this even deeper, what if the only reason they actually back you off is so you dont get in enough hands to find out youre getting cheated? What if that's the real reason casinos in vegas back you off and not so much because you're making money off of them? There's definitely more questions than answers. The funny thing, all of these hundreds of posts ive made to casinos cheating could all be dismissed if the casinos just ran a business with some type of integrity and took a minute out of their pathetic lives to show its patrons the cards. I mean how can you offer a game and not let the patrons about to play it see the cards? I mean how hilarious is that? How can people not see where im coming from? Why am i the crazy guy for asking this? It's a matter of simple integrity. What do they have to hide? Would it really kill them to order cards in order and just simply have them placed face up before play? I mean really? If you're not asking questions, youre part of the problem.
Can someone tell me the exact time most of these casinos open their blackjack tables and place the cards face up? Even if it's pre shuffled ill try to do a quick running count tally and see if it ends + or not. Can anyone give me a time? 12pm? 8pm? I know for sure around 8pm on the weekend is when they open the nightshift tables.
Do yourself a favor. Go to the table with a 32 oz. beverage. When the discard rack is 40% full, stand up to take a sip and sneeze like a madman dropping said beverage so it obliterates the discard rack. They will change the cards and you can see the process for yourself.
I find it hard to believe that you haven't seen the process many times. This paranoia of yours is beginning to border on the delusional side.
Quote: MaxPenYou're being absolutely crazy...
...This paranoia of yours is beginning to border on the delusional side.
BEGINNING?
Quote: PokerGrinderBEGINNING?
😜😜😜🤔🤔🙄🙄😄
Quote: MaxPenYou're being absolutely crazy. I have seen so many card changes in this town. None have been pre shuffled. The cards are spread face up 2 thru A and they are each touched by the dealer then flipped and backs thumbed thru. Then they mix'em all up and stack and shuffle. Card changes are a pain in the ass. Not once have I ever witnessed a missing card.
Do yourself a favor. Go to the table with a 32 oz. beverage. When the discard rack is 40% full, stand up to take a sip and sneeze like a madman dropping said beverage so it obliterates the discard rack. They will change the cards and you can see the process for yourself.
I find it hard to believe that you haven't seen the process many times. This paranoia of yours is beginning to border on the delusional side.
I have only seen the process in PA, i havent been in vegas long enough to see them do it. When they have been opening tables i was busy playing at another table such as the 8pm weekend shift where they open tables for the night. Because im in and out before 1 hour hits per session, its hard for me to have seen the process yet. So you're saying the cards come in order in Vegas? Was this in blackjack? What time do they start opening tables? Im guessing 12pm? Going to check tomorrow, but from the answers ive gotten from pit bosses, dealers, and gaming, the cards come pre shuffled. My guess is the times you seen card changes and in order, it was probably at other games such as 3 card poker, but i hope im wrong.
Quote: PokerGrinderI am not allowed to insult ZK so instead of saying that he is nuts, I will say this thread in bonkers! So let me get this straight, all the casinos are out to get little old ZK and his massive (sarcasm) bankroll. They arrange to have stacked decks come over from China to take card counters money. Also anybody on this site, which is full of intelligent people (obviously other than me lol) who says you are crazy or that the casinos aren't cheating you must be a liar? You need a shrink bud.
I didnt say they were out to just get me. They're out to get all counters. We all know casinos dont think rationally and are a bunch of greedy scum. Just look at the introduction of 6:5; there was no reason for them to do that, but they did it anyway. Yes there's a big difference between legal cheating and illegal cheating, but for you to rule it out is ridiculous especially with the weak legal enforcement being done.
Quote: ZenKinGEvery dealer i have asked and pit boss, they all say it comes pre shuffled. In PA it was the same way and i saw it with my own eyes it being pre shuffled. So you saying it comes in some order is either a flat out lie or you're talking about other games in the casino where of course they dont need to stack the deck like they do in blackjack.
I've dealt blackjack in 2 casinos and have witnessed new cards coming in on blackjack several times. Yet, you're the one who hasn't yet seen new cards being introduced in LV and you're calling me a liar?
This whole thing reminds me of the TV show, Boiling Points, where they essentially annoy someone to all hell. Either the person walks away (or swears or threatens to call the police etc.) and they lose, or they deal with it for 15 or 20 minutes or however long, and they win $100. I'm pretty sure this entire forum is on that TV show right now.
ANd this one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5jyAYGn5djs
Quote: ZenKinGI have only seen the process in PA, i havent been in vegas long enough to see them do it. When they have been opening tables i was busy playing at another table such as the 8pm weekend shift where they open tables for the night. Because im in and out before 1 hour hits per session, its hard for me to have seen the process yet. So you're saying the cards come in order in Vegas? Was this in blackjack? What time do they start opening tables? Im guessing 12pm? Going to check tomorrow, but from the answers ive gotten from pit bosses, dealers, and gaming, the cards come pre shuffled. My guess is the times you seen card changes and in order, it was probably at other games such as 3 card poker, but i hope im wrong.
Blackjack..
Quote: RSI've dealt blackjack in 2 casinos and have witnessed new cards coming in on blackjack several times. Yet, you're the one who hasn't yet seen new cards being introduced in LV and you're calling me a liar?
This whole thing reminds me of the TV show, Boiling Points, where they essentially annoy someone to all hell. Either the person walks away (or swears or threatens to call the police etc.) and they lose, or they deal with it for 15 or 20 minutes or however long, and they win $100. I'm pretty sure this entire forum is on that TV show right now.
Yea because i knew you used to be a dealer cause i can read your mind through a computer screen. Go ahead and tell me when you ever told me you were a dealer, then get back to me.
You guys can say whatever you want about me. Everything i have said ever since being part of this forum was sincere and every question i asked was an honest question and everyone that called me crazy and not seeing where im coming from is the real problem, not me. I've been attacked saying that im autistic, crazy and not even a real person, but no one bats an eye, but when i say something i automatically lose credibility and am the bad guy. If you cant see why I ask these questions, then i feel sorry for you guys, truly do. I even met with other players on this forum to prove my innocence and yet im the bad guy and the one losing credibility and always in the wrong for simply asking a question.
Regarding my blackjack career to this point, i dont care whatever happens from here on out because i can look at myself in the mirror every day knowing i gave it all i could. Im up 35k for now overall and know i did everything in my power to prepare, build and save up a high five figure bankroll with discipline and patience and also to have the balls to leave my parents house to go to the other side of the country by myself to do what i prepared to do; that's really all that matters at the end of the day. To do what i have done and build up this bankroll through a 1% to 1.5% high variance game and never losing discipline and not overbetting my bankroll keeps my head up high every day.
Quote: rainmanForgive me I skimmed this thread. Are you claiming the casinos are cheating and you continue to win anyway?
Quite the opposite. Getting my ass handed to me. It's not the losses per se. I know the swings of this game and dont mind losing. It's the lack of transparency that the casinos show its patrons. They never show the cards to anyone, perhaps when they open a table, but i have never been there at the opening. Even when they show the cards, it comes pre-shuffled from my latest interactions with dealers and pit boss, thats what they told me. So even if they lay out the cards face up, its impossible to see if all the cards are indeed there and not short shoed or 10s and A's replaced with low cards. The gaming commission already told me they dont inspect the cards. How ridiculous is that?
Quote: MaxPenThinking about it. I have witnessed new cards coming in at probably 2 dozen casinos. The SLS is the only "strip property". Never have I seen pre shuffled decks used. Maybe the drink test is in order to expose shenanigans or verify truth.
I think what is happening is the strip properties all use pre shuffled decks. Off strip properties and station casinos etc use cards in order. Not a coincidence i dominate off the strip, but as soon as i come back to the strip i get my ass handed to me. Hmm.
Drink test wont do anything. Theyll just pack up the cards and not show them. The new ones will be pre shuffled and nothing will be accomplished. I can get the same effect by just getting their before tables open and seeing if cards are in 'order' or not, thats the only way ill see if all the cards are there.
Quote: ZenKinGQuote: RSI've dealt blackjack in 2 casinos and have witnessed new cards coming in on blackjack several times. Yet, you're the one who hasn't yet seen new cards being introduced in LV and you're calling me a liar?
This whole thing reminds me of the TV show, Boiling Points, where they essentially annoy someone to all hell. Either the person walks away (or swears or threatens to call the police etc.) and they lose, or they deal with it for 15 or 20 minutes or however long, and they win $100. I'm pretty sure this entire forum is on that TV show right now.
Yea because i knew you used to be a dealer cause i can read your mind through a computer screen. Go ahead and tell me when you ever told me you were a dealer, then get back to me.
You guys can say whatever you want about me. Everything i have said ever since being part of this forum was sincere and every question i asked was an honest question and everyone that called me crazy and not seeing where im coming from is the real problem, not me. I've been attacked saying that im autistic, crazy and not even a real person, but no one bats an eye, but when i say something i automatically lose credibility and am the bad guy. If you cant see why I ask these questions, then i feel sorry for you guys, truly do. I even met with other players on this forum to prove my innocence and yet im the bad guy and the one losing credibility and always in the wrong for simply asking a question.
Regarding my blackjack career to this point, i dont care whatever happens from here on out because i can look at myself in the mirror every day knowing i gave it all i could. Im up 35k for now overall and know i did everything in my power to prepare, build and save up a high five figure bankroll with discipline and patience and also to have the balls to leave my parents house to go to the other side of the country by myself to do what i prepared to do; that's really all that matters at the end of the day. To do what i have done and build up this bankroll through a 1% to 1.5% high variance game and never losing discipline and not overbetting my bankroll keeps my head up high every day.
ZK,
Nearly everyone on this forum wants to see you succeed, not face-plant. Yeah, we have one or two who find a train wreck entertaining. Not speaking for them.
You're providing us with rant after rant, for several months now. No one wants to call you crazy, and they've restrained themselves, but good grief, man, you just keep putting another log on the fire!
Grind means patience is required.
Variance means down days, weeks, months.
Keep calm and carry on.
Quote: IbeatyouracesYou'll only see all the cards face up when they first open a table or during a card changes which is usually very early in the morning. This is standard procedure all over the country.
He has been told this 4 times by me in this thread, he simply doesnt care to listen
Quote: GWAEHe has been told this 4 times by me in this thread, he simply doesnt care to listen
I listened, just wanted a precise time and no one has given me it yet. Maybe you guys are the ones that do not listen? It doesnt even matter anyway, only off strip properties have the cards come in order. Even if i get there when the table opens, all the cards will be pre shuffled, there wont be any way to see if they're stacking the decks, unless i do a quick running count.
Quote: ZenKinGI understand the math. For the last time, it's not the losing, its the procedures in place that make me doubt the game. Ive lost all of my 25k profit before in a span of 150 hours after 400 hours of play only to make back 42k, so i know the swings of the game. The thing that is frustrating me is the shady procedures so far in this town. Casinos getting cards from China. Commission telling me that they dont even inspect the cards that these casinos get their cards from, all of that just shot up red flags.
And just let me say this one more time. I really cant stand how i lose credibility on this forum and with people by simply asking a simple honest question. Show me the cards, its not that hard. I would never say anything to anyone in the casino again if i could simply see the cards with my own eyes so i know its a fair game. Why should I even have to ask this question. Casinos should be doing this automatically to show some integrity. All it takes is a minute max. How can you expect your customers to just sit down and play and take your word for it, when your whole industry relies on you taking their money. Just hilarious. And im the bad guy? Crazy. Dont even want to be a part of this forum if people cant understand where im coming from.
You can. As said now for the 4th time. Get there when the table opens.
This is starting to get into varmenti territory. Do you have a bet on how many pages this thread can go?
Quote: ZenKinGEvery dealer i have asked and pit boss, they all say it comes pre shuffled. In PA it was the same way and i saw it with my own eyes it being pre shuffled. So you saying it comes in some order is either a flat out lie or you're talking about other games in the casino where of course they dont need to stack the deck like they do in blackjack.
This is complete BS. They do not use pre shuffled decks for blackjack. I am starting to doubt that you even play the game at this point. How would you not know this, other than experts in the field have told you 9 or 10 times just in this thread.
Quote: MaxPenYou're being absolutely crazy. I have seen so many card changes in this town. None have been pre shuffled. The cards are spread face up 2 thru A and they are each touched by the dealer then flipped and backs thumbed thru. Then they mix'em all up and stack and shuffle. Card changes are a pain in the ass. Not once have I ever witnessed a missing card.
Do yourself a favor. Go to the table with a 32 oz. beverage. When the discard rack is 40% full, stand up to take a sip and sneeze like a madman dropping said beverage so it obliterates the discard rack. They will change the cards and you can see the process for yourself.
I find it hard to believe that you haven't seen the process many times. This paranoia of yours is beginning to border on the delusional side.
I had such a witty comment on this but it was clearly trolling the OP. Damn, sometimes I wish I could troll.
Quote: GWAEYou can. As said now for the 4th time. Get there when the table opens.
This is starting to get into varmenti territory. Do you have a bet on how many pages this thread can go?
If this thread exceeds 60 pages, I'm pretty sure we all win $100.
I don't know what time strip properties open tables and show the cards, in order, face up. I don't recall being at the table (at a strip casino) when they bring in new cards, since the only times I've really played on the strip is for short sessions and getting called in as a BP or being a spotter and calling in a BP.
If they cheat, it's not enough to show big losses over a few hours of play. You're going to drive yourself even crazier if you keep believing the strip casinos cheat.....while returning to them and still playing there.
Quote: GWAEThis is complete BS. They do not use pre shuffled decks for blackjack. I am starting to doubt that you even play the game at this point. How would you not know this, other than experts in the field have told you 9 or 10 times just in this thread.
I literally just asked several pit bosses the past week and they all said it comes pre shuffled. Why would I say that, if i didnt hear it with my own ears. Both dealers and pit bosses have told me that. Even gaming didn't correct me today when i mentioned it being pre shuffled.
Quote: RSIf this thread exceeds 60 pages, I'm pretty sure we all win $100.
I don't know what time strip properties open tables and show the cards, in order, face up. I don't recall being at the table (at a strip casino) when they bring in new cards, since the only times I've really played on the strip is for short sessions and getting called in as a BP or being a spotter and calling in a BP.
If they cheat, it's not enough to show big losses over a few hours of play. You're going to drive yourself even crazier if you keep believing the strip casinos cheat.....while returning to them and still playing there.
Im settling this cheating nonsense tomorrow. I hope to god the cards are in order so i can finally just play in peace. If it's pre shuffled ill try to do some type of RC to see if it ends +, - or neutral.
By the way it hasnt been a few hours, its been 40 hours. Still short term data, but just correcting you.
Quote: ZenKinGI listened, just wanted a precise time and no one has given me it yet. Maybe you guys are the ones that do not listen? It doesnt even matter anyway, only off strip properties have the cards come in order. Even if i get there when the table opens, all the cards will be pre shuffled, there wont be any way to see if they're stacking the decks, unless i do a quick running count.
What are you talking about? No one ever said that strip properties have pre shuffled. Actually a few posts up in this page max said he has seen it at every strip property except 1.
Seriously this is getting ridiculous. If you really think this is happening then you should pick a property and camp there all day/night to watch this happen. Would it not be worth a day of your time to confirm your thoughts.
Threads like this make me miss varmenti
Quote: GWAEWhat are you talking about? No one ever said that strip properties have pre shuffled. Actually a few posts up in this page max said he has seen it at every strip property except 1.
Seriously this is getting ridiculous. If you really think this is happening then you should pick a property and camp there all day/night to watch this happen. Would it not be worth a day of your time to confirm your thoughts.
Threads like this make me miss varmenti
I came to the conclusion through the process of elimination. He said dozens of casinos but only '1 strip' property and i know which property he is talking about because of several PMs we have exchanged. SLS is not a strip property. It is a downtown property. You didnt read carefully either. He said a dozen casino, BUT only 1 strip property, in which he saw cards in ORDER. He cant verify for the other stores.
Quote: RSIf this thread exceeds 60 pages, I'm pretty sure we all win $100.
I'm pretty sure we all lose as this thread keeps getting longer and longer.
Quote: ZenKinGIm settling this cheating nonsense tomorrow. I hope to god the cards are in order so i can finally just play in peace. If it's pre shuffled ill try to do some type of RC to see if it ends +, - or neutral.
By the way it hasnt been a few hours, its been 40 hours. Still short term data, but just correcting you.
40 hours is a few hours.
That's what, at best maybe 4,000 rounds? At most 1/3'rd of 1 N0?
Quote: RS40 hours is a few hours.
That's what, at best maybe 4,000 rounds? At most 1/3'rd of 1 N0?
Probably less. I would say 2500 rounds. I dont know why everyone uses the standard 100 rounds an hour, many people get far less than that. Like i said, im not too bothered about the losing, it's the unknown of getting cheated, that's always been the discussion. I know the swings of the game and have gone through them and come out the other side. I think all of you are wrong though about the cards coming in order, at least when talking about STRIP properties. They come pre shuffled. Im going to have to do a quick running count somehow
So at 2500 rounds, that's at best 1/5 of 1 N0 (~12k rounds?), I'm guessing.
Quote: RSWhich is why I said at best 4K rounds. But even at 100 HPH, that's 1 round every 36 seconds. You're not playing in crowded conditions, are ya?
So at 2500 rounds, that's at best 1/5 of 1 N0 (~12k rounds?), I'm guessing.
I do a lot of backcounting and thats why i use a conservative 60 rounds an hour. Ive done more off the top play since i got to vegas as backcounting hasnt been as easy as back home. Maybe im more at 70 rounds an hour now. I would say I do about 65% backcounting and 35% off the top play. I also wong out aggressively at -1. Finding an open table to backcount or play off the top is not that easy in vegas due to limited tables with 3:2 that are open etc. I try my best to avoid crowded tables, but sometimes people just randomly join while im backcounting or while playing.
And no, my N0 is around 17k, give or take depending on the pen, which is pretty good considering Vegas deteriorating conditions. Im playing strictly H17, DAS, LS, which is a decent game considering I cant play the high limit $100 S17 tables just yet. I make sure i always play with surrender as it really helps curb the variance and boost SCORE
Multiply that by every table every day and it adds up.
As a player I much prefer the preshuffled cards.
If the casinos are cheating,they're not doing a very good job,or maybe they only let some of us win,and only cheat the highly skilled players such as yourself :)
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I am also willing to bet you $5,000 that if we pick a random strip casino that I can show you that they are not using pre-shuffled cards and that they spread the deck out for you to see every card. If you are right and they are pre-shuffled you win $5k, if I am right I win $5k and you win peace of mind. When would you like to do this?
I want to know where in the "card counting mantra" that it says it's impossible to lose for longggggggggggg stretches at a time. I hate to bring up his name, but did KJ mention somewhere that he lost for 6 months straight?!?!
