How did you learn Basic Strategy?
I'm not a very visual learner, and there's no way I can memorize a color coded chart of boxes.
I quickly threw together a 1 page strategy sheet that, to me, is far easier to memorize. Check it out here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6TkUueCoFB0ZGdVdmRSckRDZXM
How did you get basic strategy down 200%? I am thinking about flashcards as well...
http://www.hitorstand.net/game_m.html
https://wizardofvegas.com/games/blackjack/
I think the only problem that somebody would have with it is, if you move it around and somebody thinks that you are using the card's position to track the count somehow.
I associated baseball players with numbers, as I'm a baseball fan. 2= Jeter, 3= Ruth , 12= Boggs. Etc.
For me, I did what you did--made my own spreadsheet by copying a strategy chart from the WoV (using the rules from the local casino where I play). Somehow making my own copy helped to internalize the strategy. (I also color coded it to help.)
By the way, I noticed some differences between my chart and what you have (particularly re: splitting)--perhaps because you have No Double After Split allowed and my chart allows for that? Here's what I use:
https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/
I practiced A LOT on the Wiz's trainer until almost everything was down pat. I'd occasionally forget a few subtle things (like doubling an A-8 against the dealer's 6), but before too long I had it all down. Now I don't even think about it when playing. Now, as I'm (still) in the early stages of learning to count cards I've amended my table to include the "Illustrious 18." (The local casinos here don't allow surrender, so I didn't include the 'Fab 4'.)
Good luck on your journey!
ie: "12: Stand vs 4-6 otherwise hit" or "10: double 2-9 otherwise hit". Etc. Instead of learning "Dealer 2: hit 9 or lower, double 10 and 11, hit 12, stand 13 or higher, split 2-6"....you look at your own hand and see what the possibilities are.
I just memorized every hand, but they're grouped together nicely and make intuitive sense (to a degree).
Quote: RSOne easy way to learn it is "do X on Y otherwise Z"
ie: "12: Stand vs 4-6 otherwise hit" or "10: double 2-9 otherwise hit". Etc. Instead of learning "Dealer 2: hit 9 or lower, double 10 and 11, hit 12, stand 13 or higher, split 2-6"....you look at your own hand and see what the possibilities are.
For me that would be Boggs vs Righetti, .
Quote: gamerfreakSide note, why does BS say to double a soft 19 against a 6?
In a S17 game you don't. You do in a H17 game to take advantage of the dealer busting when hitting on his A, 6 when he has it.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIn a S17 game you don't. You do in a H17 game to take advantage of the dealer busting when hitting on his A, 6 when he has it.
Do counters ever ignore the more obscure strategies like this to avoid heat? I feel like only an AP would ever hit a 19 (with these rules) .
Quote: gamerfreakDo counters ever ignore the more obscure strategies like this to avoid heat? I feel like only an AP would ever hit a 19 (with these rules) .
I'm sure some do. And with H17 now being more prevalent than S17, always doubling A,8 vs 6 cuts down on some pit heat.
Quote: RSThere are lots of plays you can do to cut down on heat and hardly affects (effects?) your hourly. A8vs6 is one of them (as well as splitting TT). As well as others.
Always standing on 16, doubling 9 v 2, always insuring blackjack, doubling Ten v Ten, but not splitting TT, that's got to be an attention getter. In my opinion the two examples you just gave could attract heat rather than cut down on it. What does the average recreational player do with A8 v 6?
Quote: gamerfreakDo counters ever ignore the more obscure strategies like this to avoid heat? I feel like only an AP would ever hit a 19 (with these rules) .
For extra credit, when should you hit a 4-card soft 19 v Ten?
Quote: bobbartopAlways standing on 16, doubling 9 v 2, always insuring blackjack, doubling Ten v Ten, but not splitting TT, that's got to be an attention getter. In my opinion the two examples you just gave could attract heat rather than cut down on it. What does the average recreational player do with A8 v 6?
I don't see standing on A8vs6, TT, nor 16vT would be an attention getter. I think 100% of recreational players stand on A8 vs 6.
Quote: RSI think 100% of recreational players stand on A8 vs 6.
Mainly because the most prevalent BS card they learn from is the S17 one. Doubling this hand on a H17 game gets heat from other players, not the pit.
Quote: RSI don't see standing on A8vs6, TT, nor 16vT would be an attention getter. I think 100% of recreational players stand on A8 vs 6.
Either you misunderstood me or I didn't say it very well. Always standing on 16vT just shows the House that you "don't know BS", which is a good thing. Of course, it's a very close play. And when the play is wrong, you are probably betting small. When you have your larger bets out the play is correct.
The same as above with always insuring a BJ. Ploppies do it, so should you.
A8v6 is also a very close play, why not stand and look like a recreational player?
But splitting TT is definitely an attention getter. Who needs that?
Did I misunderstand anything?
You must be able to play without thinking and trying to memorizing anything. For instance if soft 18vs 9 comes up you must automatically know what is the correct play without thinking and trying to memorizing anything.
Just like a pilot in an aero plane if an emergency situation arises he must be able to execute the correct move without thinking anything. For that they have to undergo flight simulator training so every often.
It should be the same for your BJ play.
Here is where I get my flight simulator training for BJ.
(Not sure this is allowed here). Up to the moderator here. https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackjack-strategy-trainer/
Quote: Deck007It is not a matter of memorizing the correct play.
You must be able to play without thinking and trying to memorizing anything. For instance if soft 18vs 9 comes up you must automatically know what is the correct play without thinking and trying to memorizing anything.
Just like a pilot in an aero plane if an emergency situation arises he must be able to execute the correct move without thinking anything. For that they have to undergo flight simulator training so every often.
It should be the same for your BJ play.
Here is where I get my flight simulator training for BJ.
(Not sure this is allowed here). Up to the moderator here. https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackjack-strategy-trainer/
That is a great site.
I initially tried to remember basic strategy by having the Basic Strategy card at the the $5 table. Then I would try to play without it and correct myself on the tough ones like soft doubles and certain splits; I learn from applying and re-applying. It was still hard for me to just memorize the chart as is, I can only memorize things when I understand the logic behind things and so I Googled the reason why we should split 88 vs 10, and pretty much any other question I had, like why not double 8 or lower against dealer 5 or 6 etc. After 3 months of playing at the $5 table, I decided to buckle down and just memorize by pounding it into my head. Going on to the next stage of Card Counting is what partly motivated me to memorize it once and for all.
I noticed that your 1 page strategy that you made was for No Double After Split; is this the game that you play most often? I would think Blackjack for the most part would allow double-after split?
PS. I relied on the Wizard's Basic Strategy chart because the casino ones I found were inconsistent.
Quote: bobbartopEither you misunderstood me or I didn't say it very well. Always standing on 16vT just shows the House that you "don't know BS", which is a good thing. Of course, it's a very close play. And when the play is wrong, you are probably betting small. When you have your larger bets out the play is correct.
The same as above with always insuring a BJ. Ploppies do it, so should you.
A8v6 is also a very close play, why not stand and look like a recreational player?
But splitting TT is definitely an attention getter. Who needs that?
Did I misunderstand anything?
Recreational players also don't hit A,7 vs 9-A and that's a huge mistake considering how often it comes up.
Quote: IbeatyouracesRecreational players also don't hit A,7 vs 9-A and that's a huge mistake considering how often it comes up.
Is it really, though? A "huge" mistake?
Have you examined the charts in Blackjack Attack, specifically on "absolute penalty for deviating from basic strategy"?
If I were an eye in the sky, one of the first things I would think I should watch is how a player plays A-7. Let me ask you a question. How much harm would it do to ALWAYS stand on A-7? Under any circumstance.
Quote: bobbartopFor extra credit, when should you hit a 4-card soft 19 v Ten?
No one attempted this yet?
Here's a clue if anyone gives a sh*t. It comes up often enough when I play video blackjack.
Quote: Ibeatyouraces5 card Charlie.
Well, I have to give you credit. Frankly, it's not quite what I was thinking, because video blackjack often has 6-card Charlie and I have never even played 5-card Charlie. But you win a Bartop Gold Star. Very good!
(2) The play that gives you away as knowing your onions, is hitting soft 18 vs 9.
(3) I've always hit 16 vs 10, since that's what I learnt (but also knew it was a very close decision) - however if you're varying your bet you possibly shouldn't (as presumably you have a lower bet out when it's wrong).
Quote: WizardI made flash cards and am a big advocate of that method. Trainers are fine but the soft hands and splits don't happen often enough to test those situations properly. Maybe I should make a setting in the trainer to only do those hands.
I have played in places where they don't allow you to use flash cards. It slows down the game and is valid reason why they disallow them.
Sorry I didn't know you have a trainer here.
I stand by my statement that to play perfect BS you need a trainer just like the compulsory flight simulator training for airline pilots.
For BJ the learner playing at 1000 hands per hour he would need 10 hours on the trainer to play to 95% accuracy. He would need another 10 hours to play to very close to 100% accuracy.
I think you would agree that that having played 20,000 hands the soft hands and splits would show up fairly often. That is my experience anyway.
Quote: Deck007I have played in places where they don't allow you to use flash cards. It slows down the game and is valid reason why they disallow them.
Sorry I didn't know you have a trainer here.
I stand by my statement that to play perfect BS you need a trainer just like the compulsory flight simulator training for airline pilots.
For BJ the learner playing at 1000 hands per hour he would need 10 hours on the trainer to play to 95% accuracy. He would need another 10 hours to play to very close to 100% accuracy.
I think you would agree that that having played 20,000 hands the soft hands and splits would show up fairly often. That is my experience anyway.
Flash cards aren't for the table, they're for memorizing beforehand.
Quote: Deck007I have played in places where they don't allow you to use flash cards. It slows down the game and is valid reason why they disallow them.
A flash card is something that has a question on one side and the answer on the other. They are often used to memorize things, like vocabulary words for a foreign language class.
I think you're thinking of a basic strategy chart. I've used those at the table the first time I played back at the Silver City in 1986. The dealer was clearly annoyed at me slowing down the game over a $1 bet but never told me I couldn't use it.
Quote: WizardA flash card is something that has a question on one side and the answer on the other. They are often used to memorize things, like vocabulary words for a foreign language class.
I'm assuming you do the same for Pai Gow Tile pairs?
Quote: WizardA flash card is something that has a question on one side and the answer on the other. They are often used to memorize things, like vocabulary words for a foreign language class.
I think you're thinking of a basic strategy chart. I've used those at the table the first time I played back at the Silver City in 1986. The dealer was clearly annoyed at me slowing down the game over a $1 bet but never told me I couldn't use it.
Yes BS chart. I have seen the pit boss disallow the player from using it.
Quote: DRichIn the 1980's I programmed my T.I. calculator to do drill and practice for BJ basic strategy based on a chart I found in a book.
and T.I.'s have not changed one bit since
I think that is a great idea, Wizard! You might also want to include double and surrender hands.Quote: WizardI made flash cards and am a big advocate of that method. Trainers are fine but the soft hands and splits don't happen often enough to test those situations properly. Maybe I should make a setting in the trainer to only do those hands.
The array of boxes shown in WOO for Basic Strategies hurt my head. I had to find a way to remember. I learned a 'basic' many years before WOO, same concepts and 'almost' identical decisions.
I wrote down something in English, in paragraphs if you will.
3 paragraphs to be exact. Went something like: (Knowing that pairs and soft hands have their own paragraphs, and this example is for H17, no surrender etc)
Two cards up to 8 total, hit vs any Dealer upcard.
Two cards of 9 total, double vs 3 thru 6, hit 2 and 7 thru Ace.
Two cards of 10 total.....
Etc....
You can finish that paragraph, do the whole thing in your own words so you can remember it. It is a short paragraph.
Then tackle pairs:
2s or 3s, split vs 2-7 ( I actually said 2s, 3s split to seven, it needs to roll off the tongue ), hit 8 thru Ace.
4s hit 'cept 5 & 6 doubles.
5s.......
6s........
Etc. you need it in your own words.......
Then tackle soft hands:
A,2 A,3 double vs dealers 5 or 6, otherwise hit
A,4 A,5 double vs dealers 4, 5, 6...........
A6...
Treat 3 or more cards at a live table as a total just like 2 cards (OK I stand 3 card 16 ;-)
Just the most Basic of Basic....
Three short paragraphs, in words. There is symmetry in the order often, which makes it easier.
Not a bunch of boxes, just 3 paragraphs. You can recite them driving down the road, or with your head on your pillow as you go to sleep, or as you are walking into the casino. Once you know them, you can repeat them.
Paragraph about 2 card totals.
Paragraph about pairs.
Paragraph about soft hands.
None are long paragraphs.
If you sit down and deal yourself a couple hundred thousand hands from a six deck shoe, you will never have to repeat them again. You couldn't play it wrong if you wanted to, it's automatic - no thinking.
I actually never wrote any of that down, I just taught myself in paragraphs. I then repeated them to myself.
That worked well for me, but then my mind works in mysterious ways, when it works at all ;-!
Then you can focus on 'other' things.
Quote: Deck007It is not a matter of memorizing the correct play.
You must be able to play without thinking and trying to memorizing anything. For instance if soft 18vs 9 comes up you must automatically know what is the correct play without thinking and trying to memorizing anything.
Just like a pilot in an aero plane if an emergency situation arises he must be able to execute the correct move without thinking anything. For that they have to undergo flight simulator training so every often.
It should be the same for your BJ play.
Here is where I get my flight simulator training for BJ.
(Not sure this is allowed here). Up to the moderator here. https://www.blackjackinfo.com/blackjack-strategy-trainer/
Grey area for me. I'm going to leave it up because:
The version first found is free.
Reputable site known to many members.
Might be of use to some.
However;
Free version doesn't work on all devices, including my phone, so I can't fully check the link atm.
Free version is a teaser for an expensive pro version below it.
WoV is not endorsing or recommending either the free or paid version of this program, with me leaving the link available. It may yet be removed.
Quote: gamerfreakI've never played at a Blackjack Table because I absolutely hate playing any game where I do not know the optimal strategy while sleeping.
I'm not a very visual learner, and there's no way I can memorize a color coded chart of boxes.
I quickly threw together a 1 page strategy sheet that, to me, is far easier to memorize. Check it out here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6TkUueCoFB0ZGdVdmRSckRDZXM
How did you get basic strategy down 200%? I am thinking about flashcards as well...
I have a photographic memory so for me just straight memorization. If you like colors, use color charts that appeal to you visually.
The booklet was only $2 back then. The scotch tape was added later.
So take my comments with this in mind: I've no PLAYING experience.
So for the last couple of weeks I've been practicing the Wizard of Odds BJ Game & Trainer - up to a couple of hundred hands a day. I shuddered thinking of the 200+ cells to memorize in Basic Strategy, but came across the Wizard's Simple Strategy with only 21 cells to memorize.
Then in the Wizard's website, Jeff Pepper made a strategy listing the exceptions, and also made a colorized card.
https://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/images/wizard-simple-exceptions.gif
This has only 18 cells to memorize - but don't forget, as other posters have stated, you can bring your card with you to the table. I have the Jeff Pepper card down pat, I would say. I make maybe 1 (careless) mistake every 80 hands or so (1.25% error, in case you are math-oriented). That is my signal to stop practicing, and might be a good indicator when I get to a table to stop or take a break after 80 deals - or if my buy-in is close to 0.
I don't have PLAYING experience to share with you (yet), but I'm happy to share my LEARNING experiences with you and how I was able to memorize the 18 cells in Jeff Pepper's strategy card.
If you don't want to memorize a strategy card or bring one with you, at least read through this forum, and capitalize on the experiences the others are happy to share with you!
http://blackjackscience.com/productdetails.php?id=74
