Newbie question for card counters

Forgive me if this is a silly question but I have to ask - How is it possible to still be a successful card counter today?

Before joining this site it's been my understanding that casino's now have software that can ID card counters by their play, then add their face to a list which any casino can access and ban them from ever entering. I saw a doc on Netflix (I can't remember the name) about card counters who have to disguise themselves and even when they do it's only a matter of time before they get thrown out and their money seized. Even Ben Affleck with all his celebrity wasn't above getting thrown out!

I would've thought this would discourage people from card counting for anything more than an initial run. But on all the different forum's I've recently joined it looks like card counting is alive and well with card counters happily talking about their craft. So how is it you guys are all still playing???

Yes people are making a living counting cards as we speak. Keep in mind most places surveillance is actually watching more for casino employee theft with cheaters and APers as secondary concern. No one is going to tell you specifics on how they are currently beating heat...that would make no sense whatsoever. It's not really hard to figure out how people are getting away with it. (if you have no imagination, there are plenty of stories from years past people have shared)

Even with software it's not realistic for casinos to watch every player. They're generally only going to start analyzing a players play if someone in the pit gets suspicious. If you camouflage your play well, that can keep them off your trail for a while. If you're playing low stakes they're probably not looking to closely, anyway.

And the play analysis and facial recognition software is also a cost that some casinos may not invest in. Moreover, that software if less effective than they'd like you to believe. Once you do get tagged as a counter it makes it easier to keep track of you, but it's not as easy to get to that point as you may think. As far as Ben Affleck goes, his celebrity probably worked against him. People were watching him because he was Ben Affleck, not some anonymous gambler.

It's a cat and mouse game, but the cats aren't as all powerful as they would have you believe.

A lot of players employ a hit and run style, moving from one casino to another after only 2 to 3 shoes to keep heat down. Also Most casinos don't sweat red chip action unless your win is excessive. High stakes players get heat and deal with many more backoffs. The truth of the matter is most smart casinos know the vast majority of counters are just wannabees that lack the skill to actually get a decent edge. Most people spreading bets are not doing it quite right to gain a meaningful edge. Software is not a factor at most casinos unless they can run 100,s of hands to make a judgement. The game has always been a cat and mouse battle, yet good players still grind out profit.

Quote: BW21

A lot of players employ a hit and run style, moving from one casino to another after only 2 to 3 shoes to keep heat down. Also Most casinos don't sweat red chip action unless your win is excessive. High stakes players get heat and deal with many more backoffs.

Put me squarely in the hit and run category. I rarely play more than an hour at a time. I'll often play 20 or 30 minutes in the morning on my way to work. I'm also playing mostly at the red chip level, so heat's never been much of an issue for me.

To be a successful card counter, you must also master the art of hiding in plain site. You can hit and run, you can play normally half the time, you can do any number of things, but if you only count cards and don't learn to play the cat and mouse games with the casinos, your career will be pretty short.

Quote: dutchman

Forgive me if this is a silly question but I have to ask - How is it possible to still be a successful card counter today?...

Wouldn't you know it, the 3 articles I wrote literally answer this question =). I suggest reading all 3, but if you want the answer as to how it's possibly alone, Article 3 will give you that.

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-in-Blackjack/
https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-In-Blackjack-2/
https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/A-to-Z-Counting-Cards-in-Blackjack-3/

Quote: DiscreteMaths2

No one is going to tell you specifics on how they are currently beating at would make no sense whatsoever.

You're right. That was dumb of me to ask. Again, rookie here. But thanks for all the replies! This is fascinating.

OK secondary question then: Is it at all possible to be both a card and comp counter? I'm torn between the two and from what you guys describe it seems like you have to pick one or the other. As I don't get to true casino's very much I like the idea of getting treated like a VIP and getting free vacations. But I also want to win money.

Thanks Romes! You rule!

Quote: dutchman

OK secondary question then: Is it at all possible to be both a card and comp counter? I'm torn between the two and from what you guys describe it seems like you have to pick one or the other. As I don't get to true casino's very much I like the idea of getting treated like a VIP and getting free vacations. But I also want to win money.

Many of the people here (not me) make their living by counting cards and other casino based AP moves. To them the risk of being denied playing privileges at a specific casino could have severe negative affects on their ability to earn a living. To properly count cards with a reasonable expectation of winning, you need a bankroll probably way in excess of what you would be willing to lose. Some of the counters here mention spreads as high as 1-16, which means if you start betting $25 you have to be prepared to bet $400 on a single hand, be prepared to split and double of course.
I go to Vegas maybe 2-3 times a year, for 3-5 days at a time, and mostly do low green chip negative games. I am very content with the room and occasional other offers I get from Caesars. Without knowing more about you, I'd play with a card, count as much as your bankroll will tolerate, and report back to the forum on how it goes!

Quote: SOOPOO

I'd play with a card, count as much as your bankroll will tolerate, and report back to the forum on how it goes!

lol it's going to be awhile before that happens. I'm still debating whether or not to even learn