Ayjacks
Ayjacks
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October 31st, 2015 at 4:45:16 PM permalink
i am looking to talk with people about spanish 21 who have done research, have experience, or believe that spanish 21 is a beatable game like i do. if you feel it is not a beatable game please do not respond. thank you
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
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October 31st, 2015 at 5:17:28 PM permalink
Beatable in what way? Obviously hole carding can beat it easily
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
Francisco
Francisco
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October 31st, 2015 at 6:19:05 PM permalink
I am not AP, I have no experience, but I read "pro's guide to Spanish 21 " by Katarina Walker , and I think the game is beatable if you are good.
sabre
sabre
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October 31st, 2015 at 6:59:23 PM permalink
Quote: Ayjacks

i am looking to talk with people about spanish 21 who have done research, have experience, or believe that spanish 21 is a beatable game like i do. if you feel it is not a beatable game please do not respond. thank you



I responded. Too bad.
RS
RS
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October 31st, 2015 at 11:22:52 PM permalink
Quote: Francisco

I am not AP, I have no experience, but I read "pro's guide to Spanish 21 " by Katarina Walker , and I think the game is beatable if you are good.



Does that book talk about card counting in Sp21?
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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November 1st, 2015 at 6:24:25 AM permalink
Somewhere the Wizard relates playing a lot of Spanish 21 at one point in his life - IIRC while living in Baltimore.

This certainly suggests he felt it could be beat. I don't believe he went on to explain.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
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November 1st, 2015 at 6:52:54 AM permalink
I don't want to quote him however I don't think he said it Could be beat but I do remember him distinctly saying in some jurisdictions it's the best blackjack odds that are offered, however it definitely was not Baltimore because at the time they did not have casinos
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
Francisco
Francisco
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November 1st, 2015 at 4:07:05 PM permalink
Yes. It's a complete book for Spanish 21 and Pontoon. Card counting and every thing. Wizard thinks she is the best in that field. You can get the book from Amazon.
Ayjacks
Ayjacks
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November 2nd, 2015 at 9:01:59 AM permalink
thank you. i havnt learned about hole card counting yet. im sure there are many ways to beat this game. what i mean by beatable is anything to give the player and edge and come out on top in the long run.
Ayjacks
Ayjacks
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November 2nd, 2015 at 9:15:04 AM permalink
thank you. it seems that most people only know of that book. i study the wizards strategy and its very similar to walkers book as he has stated. i know her way of card counting. im interested in other strategies people may have created and studied. if read of card counting for match the dealer. someone off this post has mentioned whole card counting for it. i have seen on other posts people mentioning a certain count they heard of but no studies or research to back it up. im alo interested in studies done with sims from software people may have.
Stealth
Stealth
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November 25th, 2015 at 9:12:26 PM permalink
Yes, it is beatable with counting.
Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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November 25th, 2015 at 10:01:49 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Somewhere the Wizard relates playing a lot of Spanish 21 at one point in his life - IIRC while living in Baltimore.

This certainly suggests he felt it could be beat. I don't believe he went on to explain.



Yes, my ten years in Baltimore my gambling playground was Atlantic City and Spanish 21 was the best bet the time. I don't recall ever saying it was beatable. At the time, the game was still rather new and the dealers often didn't understand the rules properly, or pretended they didn't. For example, paying 3-1 for something that should have paid 3-2. I got the impression that some dealers were trying to hint to me that they would make misplays in my favor if I tipped well, but that crosses a line that I don't cross.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Tarzan
Tarzan
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November 28th, 2015 at 4:19:22 AM permalink
Katarina Walker passed away relatively recently, unfortunately. It's a great book, the place to start if you want to play Spanish21. There is beyond her book also, specialized counts, side counts and things I haven't even begun to look at closely enough yet. I have a friend that is the best I know of at this game and it's intricacies. I don't know enough about it to play it but it's certainly an interesting game! It's sort of like starting off at TC-4.2 off the top of the shoe, which is horrible but the various player friendly rules offset this. The basic strategy for the game is relatively complex compared to blackjack basic strategy.
Spanish21er
Spanish21er
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January 26th, 2016 at 10:43:24 AM permalink
Hi Wizard... First off just want to say thank you for your Spanish 21 guide... I try to use this by heart when going to the casino here in Canada, where they stay on soft 17's.

This game, I think, is by far the best at the casino, in my opinion. And correct me if I'm wrong, but incremental betting can really help in this game, especially when the maximum is high. So really, it's "possible" to beat the house in the long run... Maybe not by the hands, but in terms of the amount of money. Do you think this is right or wrong?

Also, I've been searching everywhere for this answer but can't seem to find one... Just for my curiosity, do you happen to know what the probability of winning a single hand in Spanish 21 is? I don't think this is the same as house edge, which is why I was asking.

Whether you see this or not, thanks for all of your posts and help. You've help me save money, if not win. I'm still at an overall loss, like most gamblers, but hoping to see if this game can help me out with correct strategy and betting.

Thanks again!! Take care.
sabre
sabre
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January 26th, 2016 at 10:58:07 AM permalink
Quote: Spanish21er

And correct me if I'm wrong, but incremental betting can really help in this game, especially when the maximum is high.



You're wrong.
teddys
teddys
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January 26th, 2016 at 2:14:37 PM permalink
You are wrong. But counting can help you in this game.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Bondy3
Bondy3
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February 1st, 2016 at 11:52:09 AM permalink
This game is beatable with counting, but the variance is higher and you need a larger spread
Spanish21er
Spanish21er
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February 26th, 2016 at 8:28:18 AM permalink
What games would you recommend? I'm 21 years old and have lost $11000 in blackjack and in Spanish 21 (both games where I play, the dealer stands on a soft 17).

I know I'm not that deep in the hole, but I have a bad addiction. Even so, I'd rather play the best games that have the best odds of me winning, like Spanish 21, so that if I'm not going to win, atleast id lose less.

Any suggestions?? I do follow the Wizard's basic strategy by heart.
Bondy3
Bondy3
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February 28th, 2016 at 3:04:52 PM permalink
Quote: Spanish21er

What games would you recommend? I'm 21 years old and have lost $11000 in blackjack and in Spanish 21 (both games where I play, the dealer stands on a soft 17).

I know I'm not that deep in the hole, but I have a bad addiction. Even so, I'd rather play the best games that have the best odds of me winning, like Spanish 21, so that if I'm not going to win, atleast id lose less.

Any suggestions?? I do follow the Wizard's basic strategy by heart.



spanish 21 is great, I know multiple people who use it as a sole source of income as APs.

if you just play for fun, use a basic hi-lo count and spread 1-4 units, Here is a great article on it
http://discountgambling.net/2009/02/24/does-card-counting-work-for-spanish21/
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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February 28th, 2016 at 6:01:07 PM permalink
Quote: Spanish21er



I know I'm not that deep in the hole, but I have a bad addiction..

Wonderful.

"if I'm not going to win, atleast id lose less."<<<< That's very sad and disturbing to hear

This is probably not the best site to be visiting.

If your only 21 there is plenty of time to get help and you should. From what I have seen it only gets worst with age.

http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/ga/
National Problem Gambling Helpline Network 1-800-522-4700

I probably shouldn't say this but it's the truth.
I have seen a few rare AP's that are addicted but they are able to use that addiction successfully only on +EV games, however they are extremely smart with a wealth of knowledge and dedicated to AP. They have the ability to find and calculate situations most others cant.

Blackjack isn't their AP game of choice unless it's something with significant edge. They know all the playable AP games. Normally they are playing things with a high percentage where they are descent favorite be ahead in the short run. Blackjack rarely has good opportunities like that. Counting cards certainly isn't going to fall into that category.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
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