As a floor supervisor I am open to any questions about blackjack answered from my point of view
Where are you a supervisor at?Quote: elvisPlease ask any questions about my casino supervision of blackjack. I am interested in the AP game as are many gambling casino workers. I am always fascinated by winners and their stories and am always inspired by big wins that I see and wish I could do the same at some point in the future. I have studied blackjack for many years and have read and reread Uston, Snyder, Humble, Wong,Thorp, and others and know that it takes time and effort to produce positive results. I am ambivalent about casinos reaping large gains from their games and I believe that skilled players should be able to tilt the odds in their favor.
Min 10 max 100 backoff?
10 to 50?
10 to 30?
Quote: AxelWolfWhere are you a supervisor at?
Damn Axel! Here is someone who says they are willing to answer questions, a valuable resource.
And you ask "where do you work"? Why didn't you ask for their employee ID #?
Just saying......
Quote: elvisPlease ask any questions about my casino supervision of blackjack. I am interested in the AP game as are many gambling casino workers. I am always fascinated by winners and their stories and am always inspired by big wins that I see and wish I could do the same at some point in the future. I have studied blackjack for many years and have read and reread Uston, Snyder, Humble, Wong,Thorp, and others and know that it takes time and effort to produce positive results. I am ambivalent about casinos reaping large gains from their games and I believe that skilled players should be able to tilt the odds in their favor.
"As a table games supervisor if a SOB does not tip my dealer after wins I cut his average bet to the minimum". That was you last August in the "Having to tip dealers is ridiculous thread".
Is this still your attitude? How long have you been a supervisor? Does your casino condone this or do they not know?
Quote: 1BB"As a table games supervisor if a SOB does not tip my dealer after wins I cut his average bet to the minimum". That was you last August in the "Having to tip dealers is ridiculous thread".
Is this still your attitude? How long have you been a supervisor? Does your casino condone this or do they not know?
Well now, that question sheds a new and brighter light on the subject, and the OP.
I tip dealers well, too well based on my overall results at the moment.
But if a dealer demanded a tip, or a suit insinuated my opportunity to play my game depended on my level of tips.....
I'm mad just thinking about it. In reality, even with my better sense telling me to stop, now, right here.
I might go native......
Sorry Axel, I was just messin' with you anyway.
Remember, 'no worries'....;-) THE 2F
ZCore13
Also, paragraph spacing is your friend.
Edit:
Quote: JohnzimboParagraphs can be your friend, and ours
You beat me to it.
ZCore13
Quote: TwoFeathersATLDamn Axel! Here is someone who says they are willing to answer questions, a valuable resource.
And you ask "where do you work"? Why didn't you ask for their employee ID #?
Just saying......
Axel knows a thing or two.
Quote: 1BB"As a table games supervisor if a SOB does not tip my dealer after wins I cut his average bet to the minimum". That was you last August in the "Having to tip dealers is ridiculous thread".
Is this still your attitude? How long have you been a supervisor? Does your casino condone this or do they not know?
OK, Elvis, so basically you have admitted to deliberately falsifying player records in the most fundamental aspect of your job to enact some sort of petty revenge against non-tipping players. It's a good thing you haven't shared where you allegedly "work," because you would be fired on the spot.
Imagine if a $200 a hand player gets an average of $10 a hand because he didn't tip -- as you have alleged you do -- that player is overwhelmingly likely to notice that he didn't get proper credit for his play. If the matter is investigated you will have no leeway at all. You are intentionally entering fake records for your employer in the course of your duties.
If this is true you are likely a horrible supervisor and I wouldn't expect you to remain employed long in the gaming industry.
More likely you have never done this and you're probably not even a floorman, judging by your posts. You sound like a pissed-off dealer to be honest.
Quote: elvisI give the correct ratings. Do not piss off dealers or supervisors. Find ways not to do this. I am helping you understand the supervisor. I already told you i was venting against stupid posts that say never to tip dealers. Were you one of them?
You work in a service industry. I doubt the management team would appreciate you having such a seemingly hostile attitude towards your players. Players are under no obligation to tip at all. It's a courtesy that can be attributed towards a pleasant experience.
Quote: elvisI give the correct ratings. Do not piss off dealers or supervisors. Find ways not to do this. I am helping you understand the supervisor. I already told you i was venting against stupid posts that say never to tip dealers. Were you one of them?
So basically you were lying. Why should we trust anything you post now, if you were lying then and calling it "venting" now?
You didn't say "I'd like to falsely adjust their ratings." You said you did falsely adjust them. Now you're saying you don't.
You are totally busted here.Quote: elvisYou are right i was lying before but it was fun to see the replies to that post.
Quote: Zcore13I warned you all...
ZCore13
And you were 100% correct. How did you know?
Quote: sodawater
Interesting that this post has now been removed. If
a player doesn't tip he gets cut back to min bets only?
And management allows this?
Is the casino in your basement?
Quote: EvenBobAnd you were 100% correct. How did you know?
An enhanced sense of people judgement. :)
ZCore13
Quote: EvenBob
Interesting that this post has now been removed. If
a player doesn't tip he gets cut back to min bets only?
And management allows this?
My impression is he implied that he inputs that the player is betting minimum (for comps), but not actually restricting the player to the minimum bet.
let's say a player walks off up 7k from table after 15 minutes with a great shoe, but doesn't tip, table min is 100. is it rational that a player can be +70 units after a shoe at min bet?
Quote: MathExtremistAccounting and player loyalty are not necessarily the same system. But that's a good question for the pit operators here: is there any reconciliation between table accounting and player tracking systems at your casino(s)?
According to Ian Anderson's book, there is some reconciliation between the two systems.
Dam you 1BB. My question about where he worked was in fact for this exact reason. I typed up a following post but didn't send it, I wanted to delay sending it until he responded. Then you come swooping in. before I had a chance to follow up.Quote: 1BB"As a table games supervisor if a SOB does not tip my dealer after wins I cut his average bet to the minimum". That was you last August in the "Having to tip dealers is ridiculous thread".
Is this still your attitude? How long have you been a supervisor? Does your casino condone this or do they not know?
I'm sorry to say this, but I think you give casinos a bad name. IMO you shouldn't be a supervisor. No one should play at your casino.Quote: elvisKeep in mind that every table games supervisor knows or finds out what a player is tipping especially after a large win or series of winning hands. The predominant conversation in the break room among dealers is tipping and who does not tip and their names and descriptions. As a table games supervisor if a SOB does not tip my dealer after wins I cut his average bet to the minimum. I do not give him a break if there is a dispute and I will watch his blackjack play and try to get him fingered by the eye in the sky. Notes can be put on his players card profile which AUTOMATICALLY come up each time the card is entered. These notes stay on for three years. So don't tip you heathen. I will be happy to cut your comps and put notes on your card that you are an advantage player or are suspected of it. Don't anyone ever say they do not tip in front of me. I was a dealer also. Dick.
You're cheating legitimate players out of something they deserve. No wonder people love making moves on the casinos. You F%@K over innocent players just because they don't tip enough? You haven't a clue why they didn't tip. They could be the best tippers around but just forgot.
Casino consider card counters cheats for using their brain. You cheat them out of comps and then make faults claims, claims that unfairly affect them for years, possibly in other casinos. Potentially causing then to get back roomed and 86'ed thus causing them hardship. It's low down and dirty tricks yet again by casino personnel who should know better . No sympathy for anyone who works in any management capacity at a casino.
Perhaps Dan can understand casinos are way worst than any AP. Casinos are on par with the cheats.
First off I don't believe he is a supervisor. But if he was......Quote: TwoFeathersATLDamn Axel! Here is someone who says they are willing to answer questions, a valuable resource.
And you ask "where do you work"? Why didn't you ask for their employee ID #?
Just saying......
Valuable my ass.
Anyone who is willing to screw innocent players for not tipping isn't valuable in my opinion. "I wouldn't believe or listen to him if his tongue came notarized".
Casinos are always crying how bad APs are with counting cards, taking advantage of situations and shot taking, yet guys like this are willing to screw innocent players out of comps and flag them just because they fail to tip? What right do they have to do this? Casinos should be held to a higher standard, they are a place of business. A casino is built around all but blatantly stealing peoples money disguised as entertainment. Now this guy helps steals even more from them?
I remember seeing this BS when he first posted it. I assumed he was just a sock puppet and no way in hell he was supervisor of anything let alone in a casino. AAMAF someone posted something very similar to what he said months ago. I just moved on (hell the name was even suspicious)
Sometime you can just smell BS, in or out of the gambling world. I can oftentimes tell exaggeration from complete lies and everything in between. Will I be wrong sometimes? Sure, but I'm willing to trust my gut and use some logic. You can be the smartest person on earth but you need some logic to go with it.
Hopefully if I'm wrong I can find out the truth. No big harm. I remember Maxpens first few post. I thought he was a sock-puppet of B79 trying to gain fake support, or some BS'ing kid. Mainly because of the timing and foolish bet he made(seriously a very bad bet.) I quickly realized i was wrong, and i now think he's great guy and consider us friends and hope to work with him as much as possible.
Some guys I don't have to meet to realize they are legitimate, honest and good guys. I have lots of examples of this. RS comes to mind. I had never meet him for a long time, but i always thought he was legitimate. After meeting him he exceeded my expectations, and hes one of my favorite persons to hang out with.
I'm off for a while, I'm on my way to suspensionville.
Quote: AxelWolfBTW can anyone tell me what this _________ posted and deleted? That's why I was waiting to expose his other post. I figured that would make him remember what he said before and then he wouldn't post up anything before he thought about it and what he said previously. Now he deleted a bunch of stuff i didn't get to see.
I'm off for a while, I'm on my way to suspensionville.
Jeez, don't get suspended. I'll complain, then someone will complain that I complained, then I'll complain that they complained then the wagons will come out....
I wonder if elvis has left the building or will he delete more posts? Are there any vacancies at Heartbreak Hotel? Let's not get all shook up.
Quote: AxelWolfBTW can anyone tell me what this _________ posted and deleted? That's why I was waiting to expose his other post. I figured that would make him remember what he said before and then he wouldn't post up anything before he thought about it and what he said previously. Now he deleted a bunch of stuff i didn't get to see.
I'm off for a while, I'm on my way to suspensionville.
I don't know what will happen; maybe you'll get some time in the cooler...but the one who needs suspended is the one who started this charade. I had my questions about it to begin with. They were pretty much confirmed. I hope the mods look beyond one post when investigating this....
There is no doubt in my mind that these things happen. Pit boss hates your guts --> rates you poorly, pit boss likes you --> rates you favorably. The reason might be tipping, obnoxiousness, an ugly face, too handsome, whatever... So don't be so shocked.
Quote: AxelWolfYou're cheating legitimate players out of something they deserve.
Strong words. "Cheating" - when Dan accuses APers of cheating, he is rebuffed strongly. The same must apply here. The casino doesn't owe you any comps, so not giving you any hardly constitutes cheating. Also, players don't "deserve" anything for gambling. The casino will offer comps if they believe it will benefit their bottom line in the long run. How they apply their system is entirely up to them.
You want to hear from the casino's side, but only if you like what you hear? I for one appreciate some unfiltered truth from the other side of the felt.
So I wouldn't go so far as to say that a pit boss who underrates players is cheating anyone out of anything, but they are definitely not doing their job vis-a-vis the bigger picture. It's one thing to 86 an AP. It's another to discourage a non-AP from returning by undercomping him. The marketing VP would probably look unfavorably on such a policy.
*Player colors up a sizable win after a 6-hour session of hell*
[doesn't drop $1 when coloring up, and hasn't all night]
"You try pulling that shit at a restaurant, I'm spitting in your food next time you come in"
Quote: RSI'm a dealer...not a supervisor....but I see where Elvis is coming from. Most of the time when the floor asks what someone's average bet is, I'll tell them accurately, whether they tipped or not. But sometimes the player is a total a**hole, plays for hours, doesn't drop a dollar for the dealers, makes it impossible to deal to him.....then yeah, he might get a poor rating.
*Player colors up a sizable win after a 6-hour session of hell*
[doesn't drop $1 when coloring up, and hasn't all night]
"You try pulling that shit at a restaurant, I'm spitting in your food next time you come in"wasn't me who made the comment.
I hesitate to enter another 'tipping' discussion, as I was just involved in an extensive one on Norm's BJ site this week, in which I, the non-tipper was outnumbers and painted as the villain, but.....
My problem with your position RS , or at least the position that you quoted is that I do not view dealers in the same light as waiters, waitresses, barbers, bell hops and other service type jobs that provide a personalized service to me. I view a dealer more as just a common low level customer service type job dealing with the public, like a cashier. I mean no offense to you or anyone when I say that. It's honest work and dealers deserve to be paid an honest wage, whatever than may be, BY THE EMPLOYER.
I resent that the casino owner tries to push the responsibility of paying his workers off on the customer, so that he can put more money in his pockets. They are running a business they should pay their employees. I think the casino industry more than anyone has pushed the notion that dealer is in the class of waiter/waitress as far as tipping. There just is no personalized service like that. Now maybe if the player requests a private game with a private dealer, then tipping is in order. Otherwise I just don't see dealer as a position that requires tipping.
In reality it is in the casino industry's best interest not only to discourage tipping, but they should not allow it. The casino industry's top priority should be protecting integrity of the games at all cost. Tipping opens the door to collusion between player and dealer. It can be something as mild as players working the dealer for better penetration, to something like outright cheating. Either way they SHOULD protect against that compromising of the integrity of the game, but greed does not allow them to do so.
I think if casino's discouraged tipping, they'd find themselves with very few dealers willing to work for $8/hour. The actual dealing part is not too hard to learn....it's everything else that makes it not worth $8/hour...ie: cigar dude, creepy raper dude (if you're a girl), a**hole who throws chips every which way and doesn't know how to set a chip down...or the shot-takers and people complaining.
Quote: Sabretom2I understand completely. I teach graduate level aeronautics for a living and I gotta tell ya, good luck passing any exams if you're a weak or non-tipper.
Good grief.
