Planning a Trip out to Vegas...Any suggested good games out there, at the green chip level?
I'ts been awhile since I last posted on here. I had the "Brand New Counter - $40,000 bankroll - What should be my bet spread and at what table minimum?" - thread. I got a lot of great advice from other members here, which I thank once again.
So, I'm starting to play blackjack again after about a 6 month break. I am planning a trip out to vegas to explore the games out there. (No good for me at A.C. any longer - after all in the same 2 week period, got 2 comp accounts frozen, and over half the casino's are mid shoe shuffling on me, placing my own table limit signs on the felt (management decision), and cutting the shoes at 50%.
I will be doing my own research on games out there, but thought somebody might point me in the right direction, or suggest some good games, with good rules on the green chip level, double decks and 6 decks preferred.
Thanks All.
Quote: mcallister3200Oh, and rent a car and buy one copy of current blackjack news, both will be worth the investment if you're serious.
Yeah, you've mostly got all the info you need already...
1) Consult the Wizards Blackjack Survey... understanding it may be a little out of date on some places (but last I visited it was 'mostly' accurate).
2) Rent a car.
3) The strip quarter games should be 'okay' for you... Bellagio and MGM have good games (MGM is sweaty). At the quarter level you should be able to find playable games on the strip.
4) Off the strip... pick a direction. East is Sam's town / cannery / etc... South-East is Green Valley Ranch area... North West is Stations Casinos... etc, etc. I'd pick one of those off site locations and go hit 3-4 places per shift, then hit another location. None of them are more than 20 mins or so from the strip.
5) Downtown has some 'okay' and 'playable' games, but they're a little sweaty (at least in my opinion). Of course you could go get backed off at El Cortez the moment you spread more than 1-2 in a positive count.
6) Double check every table on the strip that it's NOT a 6:5 table.
Edit - DJTeddyBear made an interactive google maps site and linked it a long time ago. It had all of the casinos on and around the strip. I used this to plan out my route last trip. I can't find the link, but hopefully he'll see this and re-post it? Or you could just PM him.
If you plan on going to Vegas a lot, play unrated and keep your sessions per casino under an hour or two (although you won't get much heat with a $25 unit depending on your spread). If you're only going to go a few times a year, you can probably get away with playing for comped hotels/food with a card for a while.
Do most games in Vegas place betting restrictions if you play unrated like casino's in Atlantic City do? (example: can only play one spot and bet 10X the table minimum.) That wouldn't be good for me, since I alway's play 2 spots, and have a 1-30 spread
Quote: stabworld
Do most games in Vegas place betting restrictions if you play unrated like casino's in Atlantic City do? (example: can only play one spot and bet 10X the table minimum.)
None of them do that
Quite a few casinos will only allow you to move to a maximum of three spots and put lower limits on bets if you spread beyond one spot.
Many times to play two spots you need to be playing 2x table minimum on both spots, and for three spots its 5x on each circle. It varies by casino, some have no restrictions at all.
Quote: DonutsRegardless of if you're playing rated or not, some casinos have rules on spreading/betting mins.
Quite a few casinos will only allow you to move to a maximum of three spots and put lower limits on bets if you spread beyond one spot.
Many times to play two spots you need to be playing 2x table minimum on both spots, and for three spots its 5x on each circle. It varies by casino, some have no restrictions at all.
I have a few places in my regular rotation that have this requirement. There is good and bad in this scenario. On the one hand, it's built in cover. :) How can they evaluate your play, as far as moving money with the count, when their own rules require you to do so? :/
On the flip side, Las Vegas, more than many other places, is very sensitive about spreading horizontally (to multiple hands). Most places in Vegas, view this as much more of a "tell' than other locations do and will often initiate a skill check right at that point.
Quote: kewlj
On the flip side, Las Vegas, more than many other places, is very sensitive about spreading horizontally (to multiple hands). Most places in Vegas, view this as much more of a "tell' than other locations do and will often initiate a skill check right at that point.
You're way more experienced than I am and play at higher stakes, but at the $25 they don't seem to care when you go to 2-3 hands (anecdotal). All of the times me and my partner have been backed off we weren't spreading aggressively. Meanwhile, at other properties, we'd depth charge a double deck game with three hands of 5 units for hours and never get a second glance.
Quote: kewljOn the flip side, Las Vegas, more than many other places, is very sensitive about spreading horizontally (to multiple hands). Most places in Vegas, view this as much more of a "tell' than other locations do and will often initiate a skill check right at that point.
I cannot emphasize enough how IMPORTANT this point is. I got flat-betted at Aria because of ONLY this behavior. (PS - pm me if you want to know why I think so; no use hijacking the thread "derp you probably had heat on you that you didn't know about....")
El Cortez is literally the Amazon Rainforest in January when it comes to sweat.
Quote: stabworldHello All,
I'ts been awhile since I last posted on here. I had the "Brand New Counter - $40,000 bankroll - What should be my bet spread and at what table minimum?" - thread. I got a lot of great advice from other members here, which I thank once again.
So, I'm starting to play blackjack again after about a 6 month break. I am planning a trip out to vegas to explore the games out there. (No good for me at A.C. any longer - after all in the same 2 week period, got 2 comp accounts frozen, and over half the casino's are mid shoe shuffling on me, placing my own table limit signs on the felt (management decision), and cutting the shoes at 50%.
I will be doing my own research on games out there, but thought somebody might point me in the right direction, or suggest some good games, with good rules on the green chip level, double decks and 6 decks preferred.
Thanks All.
That's known as using their brain. I believe card counters brag about doing same. Love it!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: standbymymanThat's known as using their brain. I believe card counters brag about doing same. Love it!!!!!!!!!!!
Huh? (confused...)
Do you think spreading 1-12 on a double deck $25 min is pushing it, and drawing too much unwanted attention?
Thanks.
That Will easily fit in your front pockets and wallet .Quote: stabworldFor those of you who travel with your trip bankroll on flights. How do you transport your money? Travelers checks? Cash? I will have quite a bit of money, over 15k, not sure If I want to travel with that much cash.
5k+ wallet.
Make 2 stacks of 5k. Add a few $1 bills to the outside, fold in half, add a rubber band.
Before you go through security quickly and inconspicuously put it in your carry on. After you get through security take it out of your carry on and put it back in your pockets. A mans hand can palm and hide most, if not all 5k stack. 1 quick smooth motion, no one will notice.
If a player goes through that exercise more than once or twice, it would seem a lot easier -- and less stressful -- to establish a financial relationship with an institution either back home or at the destination. Especially seeing as how that level might provoke intrusive questions.Quote: AxelWolfBefore you go through security quickly and inconspicuously put it in your carry on. After you get through security take it out of your carry on and put it back in your pockets. A mans hand can palm and hide most, if not all 5k stack. 1 quick smooth motion, no one will notice.
Quote: SanchoPanzaIf a player goes through that exercise more than once or twice, it would seem a lot easier -- and less stressful -- to establish a financial relationship with an institution either back home or at the destination. Especially seeing as how that level might provoke intrusive questions.
Banks do not like people who make frequent cash withdrawals and deposits of substantial size. There are several law abiding professional players who have been asked to bank elsewhere by banks for this habit. For some reason banks hate cash, and financial institutions aren't toys. At the least doing so would likely rack up SAR'S
Carrying money through an airport shouldnt be an issue domestically. I've put 10-30k through several times. Straight through carry on, carried it through the scanner in my hands, or placed in a self addressed stamped envelope/package( at this point it would be considered federal property)
There is no good reason why a legitimate casino should have trouble accepting, say, a wire transfer from a legitimate player. Unless, of course, that player did not want to leave any trail behind him.Quote: mcallister3200Banks do not like people who make frequent cash withdrawals and deposits of substantial size. There are several law abiding professional players who have been asked to bank elsewhere by banks for this habit. For some reason banks hate cash. This is the world we've created, carry cash and be treated like a criminal.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThere is no good reason why a legitimate casino should have trouble accepting, say, a wire transfer from a legitimate player. Unless, of course, that player did not want to leave any trail behind him.
I agree. But there's no reason for a lot of things that have gone on between casino's and AP's over the years. In most cases an AP wouldn't want to do this somewhere they play. I imagine casinos wouldn't enjoy doing this for someone who's not playing there.
It really is easier just to bring it through the airport, since it's not an issue anyway and isn't stressful anymore after you've done it twice.
Quote: mcallister3200Banks do not like people who make frequent cash withdrawals and deposits of substantial size. There are several law abiding professional players who have been asked to bank elsewhere by banks for this habit. For some reason banks hate cash, and financial institutions aren't toys. At the least doing so would likely rack up SAR'S
Carrying money through an airport shouldnt be an issue domestically. I've put 10-30k through several times. Straight through carry on, carried it through the scanner in my hands, or placed in a self addressed stamped envelope/package( at this point it would be considered federal property)
Ya, I traveled with it, right around 20k. Just put 2 stacks of 5k, and 1 stack of around 10k wrapped in rubber bands right in the grey bin. The airport security guy told me next time, just keep the cash in your hands. But, I had no problems.
mcallister, I would suggest strongly not to mail large sums of cash to yourself, if 1 shady postal person, steals it, you have no recourse to prove how much cash you had in your package.
Quote: rudeboyoiIm assuming losing a hand there shouldn't be as much difficulty since no chips are currently in the betting spot.
Correct, this is the easiest way to put out anything you want after your bets were just taken. I still would use some discretion on not lowering your bets too much scewed from your last visible bet. Then it might look light very erratic betting spreads, usually indicative of a counter.
Quote: rudeboyoiSay you want to decrease your wager do you take all the chips, both the chips you bet and the chips you won, then put out a bet less than you had before?
If I want to lower my bet, (after getting paid on my previous hand), I will first: take my chips from the win (paid bet from the dealer, assuming there are a bit of greens), then next: simply just take away the amount of chips from my original placed bet to reflect what I want my new bet to be.
If I'm betting just blacks, then that means I only have 6 black chips out there - then I do it all in one step, taking away 4 blacks from a pile of 6, after betting 3 blacks, if I want to go down to a $200 bet from a $300. Taking 4 chips away at once is not difficult, and if I did it in two hand motions, its just wasting time on your hands per hour. It's a different story when, I'm betting $300 in all greens, which happens a lot to me. Then I'm forced to do it in 2-3 hand motions, since I have around 24 chips out on the betting area.
I tend to prefer to bet $300 worth of greens, as opposed to 3 blacks, because a dealer almost always yells black action, once the blacks are out. which is weird, cause a dealer won't yell anything to alert the pit if $300 worth of greens is out there, but will yell black action with 1 black out. I usually play all green, until the dealer suggests or asked if they can pay me in black, which I always say ok - since its more convenient for both the dealer and the player. Also, betting blacks now, dosen't look as bad, because the dealer requested to pay you in blacks.
There's been times where I buy in if I lose my stack during a shoe, and request black, if I had my max bets out - the dealer yells to the floor," BLACKS REQUESTED!". I hate that. Just give me my black chips, and husssshhhh dealer.
Quote: rudeboyoiSay you want to increase your wager do you only increase it up to the amount you won or do you collect all the chips and then put out more chips?
No. I leave what's already out there, (original bet + chips paid by dealer for winning the hand) and just add on what I want to. Again, if your taking all the chips off, then placing chips back on, your just wasting extra time and cutting into your hands dealt per hour.
Quote: stabworld
mcallister, I would suggest strongly not to mail large sums of cash to yourself, if 1 shady postal person, steals it, you have no recourse to prove how much cash you had in your package.
I didn't and wouldn't, not what I was suggesting. You don't actually mail the envelope, you just self address it then take it through or put it in your carry on. I don't really do that anymore but that's what I did the first couple times.
Quote: mcallister3200I didn't and wouldn't, not what I was suggesting. You don't actually mail the envelope, you just self address it then take it through or put it in your carry on. I don't really do that anymore but that's what I did the first couple times.
Ahhhh, I gotcha. Sorry misunderstood, what you were trying to say.
Quote: stabworldFor those of you who travel with your trip bankroll on flights. How do you transport your money? Travelers checks? Cash? I will have quite a bit of money, over 15k, not sure If I want to travel with that much cash.
I've carried that amount and more on my person through airports for years with no problems. I hold it in my hand when going through security and have never been questioned about it. It's a very different story traveling by car where the police can steal your money for no reason if you don't take measures to protect yourself.
That's odd. Since when does the TSA allow anything to be held in the hand? Especially when you have to up hold both arms.Quote: 1BBI've carried that amount and more on my person through airports for years with no problems. I hold it in my hand when going through security and have never been questioned about it.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThat's odd. Since when does the TSA allow anything to be held in the hand? Especially when you have to up hold both arms.
I usually have 10k in hundreds in my shirt pocket. In a bank envelope it is barely a half inch thick. They tell me to take it out and hold it in my hand as I raise my arms, never asking how much is there or any other questions. I also wear a money belt and have only been asked to remove it once. Obviously it has no metal in it.
Quote: stabworldI want to get other BJ AP's opinions on this. I have no problem spreading 1-6 on a $50 min double deck game. But, what about spreading 1-12 on a double deck $25 min game. The hourly expected value is almost the same, but you decrease your ROR by about 50-60%.
Do you think spreading 1-12 on a double deck $25 min is pushing it, and drawing too much unwanted attention?
Thanks.
Spreading 1-12 on $25 game is beyond pushing it and you won't last more than a max bet or two. I accidentally spread 1-12 with NICKELS (2 hands of $60) and I got shuffled on. Spreading to two hands of $150 from $25 will definitely get you more heat than you want.
I always hold my boarding pass in those scanners. I've also gone through holding cash. One time the guy on the other side asked me to fan it out.Quote: SanchoPanzaThat's odd. Since when does the TSA allow anything to be held in the hand? Especially when you have to up hold both arms.
Quote: RomesSpreading 1-12 on $25 game is beyond pushing it and you won't last more than a max bet or two. I accidentally spread 1-12 with NICKELS (2 hands of $60) and I got shuffled on. Spreading to two hands of $150 from $25 will definitely get you more heat than you want.
Dam, well minimum I would want to spread is at least 1-6 with a $150 max bet. Playing 2 hands the whole time, dropping a hand in -1 or -2 counts or below. Dosent even seem worth it to spread just 1-6 on a double deck game, with a max bet of $150, its half of what I can make spreading 1-6 on a $50 min double deck.
Quote: stabworldDam, well minimum I would want to spread is at least 1-6 with a $150 max bet. Playing 2 hands the whole time, dropping a hand in -1 or -2 counts or below. Dosent even seem worth it to spread just 1-6 on a double deck game, with a max bet of $150, its half of what I can make spreading 1-6 on a $50 min double deck.
Usually there will be bigger bettors than you at these games.
Quote: IbeatyouracesUsually there will be bigger bettors than you at these games.
Well thats good news. I'm going to try out my 1-12 spread anyhow.
Quote: IbeatyouracesAll TSA needs to do is alert an airport cop who now may do an asset forfeiture against you.
Show me a single instance of asset forfeiture involving a tourist at an airport with Vegas as an origin or destination.
Quote: stabworldWell, got backed off at 2 properties already. An additional slap in the face - one of the casino's I had a reservation with, called me to tell me, we no longer want your gaming business, and cancelled my comped reservation for my last 2 nights in vegas. So, now I have to find another hotel to stay at at my own expense, since I coordinated my flight with my room reservations.
You were warned in this thread that spreading 1-12 on DD games is absurd. They're mostly counter traps. You can spread 1-20 on shoe games all over the strip for hours at a time with no issues.
Quote: sabreYou were warned in this thread that spreading 1-12 on DD games is absurd. They're mostly counter traps. You can spread 1-20 on shoe games all over the strip for hours at a time with no issues.
The properties I was backed off at, wasn't the double deck games I spread 1-12. It was my own fault, I play rated at both the properties I was backed off at. 1 of which was a sister property of a casino I was restricted at back in AC. They must of had notations in the computer about me.
The 2nd property, I'm not really sure what happened there, I think I just played to long. Played on 1 shift a double deck game, (40 minutes), with only a 1-4 spread. Then the next shift a double deck game with a 1-6 spread (an hour and a half). I stayed longer on the 2nd shift, because the pits weren't showing any interest in my play, I figured I'd just keep playing. Probably the eye in the sky was watching though.
