Many players / Dealer less 21

Well i suppose sitting a full or almost full table is better than heads up... is it true that the dealer has less % of getting the ace because he deals to 4-5 players... if it was heads up it would be 50%-50% of him getting it... for double deck where you cant or shouldn't stay not betting , getting aces is better even playing minus counts?

Quote: GeorgePane

is it true that the dealer has less % of getting the ace because he deals to 4-5 players... if it was heads up it would be 50%-50% of him getting it

No.

Either your or the dealer would have to get an ace for each hand dealt for it to be 50/50.

By way of example, say you have a 5 card deck: A,2,3,4,5, and the dealer is going to deal one card per person.

The dealer deals one card to himself and 4 players.

each person and the dealer has a 20% chance of having the ace.

Same deck, just the dealer and you:

dealer deals one card to himself and you.

there is a 20% chance the dealer has an A
there is a 20% chance that you have an A
there is a 60% chance that the A has not been dealt - 20% chance for each of the 3 remaining cards.

well yes but you dont lose when other players have it... i mean it lowers the edge for his blackjack , meaning you play safer on minus count right?

You are making an assumption that an ace is going to come out in the round and ignoring the possibility where no ace comes out. The dealer has roughly 1/13 chance of receiving an ace, just as everyone else at the table does, regardless of how many people are playing.

Quote: GeorgePane

well yes but you dont lose when other players have it... i mean it lowers the edge for his blackjack , meaning you play safer on minus count right?

A heads up table is technically better because YOU have a better chance of getting the ace as well. What happens if you blackjack, then the dealer blackjacks? You win money because you get paid 3-2 for your blackjacks, the dealer does not. So yes, the dealer will get the ace more often heads up, but SO WILL YOU, and yours are worth more, so it's a very good trade off.

Also, when you play heads up you get a TON more hands per hour, which as you should know by now definitely ups your EV. Yet another good thing: If you're playing heads up, that means you have empty spots all around you that you could spread to multiple hands too, whereas you could not at a full table.

Quote: GeorgePane

well yes but you dont lose when other players have it... i mean it lowers the edge for his blackjack , meaning you play safer on minus count right?

Other players' hands do not affect you. Forget everything that the dealers or other players tell you about blackjack being a team game. They are wrong! How I play my hand doesn't affect you

I understand all of these but in a minus count double deck, you play less often while the deck is dealt around, meaning more money saved by playing less hands... On the other hand heads up does involve better chances getting dealt blackjack, but you play whole deck minus.... I'm not aiming long run... Just $2K only double deck 10$ min probably....Ace side could help but if will be my first time playing so ill struggle getting the count correctly than evolved tricks :p

Quote: GeorgePane

I understand all of these but in a minus count double deck, you play less often while the deck is dealt around, meaning more money saved by playing less hands... On the other hand heads up does involve better chances getting dealt blackjack, but you play whole deck minus.... I'm not aiming long run... Just $2K only double deck 10$ min probably....Ace side could help but if will be my first time playing so ill struggle getting the count correctly than evolved tricks :p

So you play table minimum in negative counts, big whoop. Raise your bets in positive counts. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. You are going to play negative counts an equal number of times as high counts. You have more money on the table when the count is positive, so you make money.

Quote: Avincow

So you play table minimum in negative counts, big whoop. Raise your bets in positive counts. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. You are going to play negative counts an equal number of times as high counts. You have more money on the table when the count is positive, so you make money.

This, kind of. You know your spread... and as mentioned before in DD you might have to play down in to some negative counts. If others are at the table I'll sit out at TC = -2 for double deck. If I'm playing heads up you kind of can't sit out because then they won't shuffle and it will be too obvious, so you'll have to play more negative counts (but the benefits of playing alone make up for this). You see, as you said you're upping your odds of getting dealt the aces and blackjacks when you play heads up... Now what if you're heads up and the count is good and you add a second hand? ;)... You've effectively raised your odds of getting the aces/blackjacks yet again over the dealer (plus yours pay more).

I would not recommend you use an aces side count. That can certainly confuse things and even if it helped you a little I'd be willing to bet you'd make too many mistakes with your general count and thus lose money there. Stick to just your main count and have it down like a machine. You'll do just fine =).

lastly what about 6:5 double deck? i know avoid at all costs 6:5 ;p , but suppose from the 8 aces they 2 aces arent dealt due to penetration... so 6 in play (again suppose)... from this imagine in the best case scenario you get dealt all of them , and even better scenario all of these are blackjacks.... on 6:5 instead of 15$ i get 12$ , so its like -3 x 6 aces = -18 $ .... if i was gonna play 8 sessions in my trip 144$ isnt a lot.... its like i lost a complete session... but im not gonna get all of them as blackjacks , so ± 100$ lost.... i could even play at 5$ mins then finding these tables and just bet more aggresively on + counts by your "burning down " technique until barred on non sister hotels....

any ideas? i know confusing questions just trying to get the most of the short run as im there for fun :))

deleted - wrong duplicate post :P

Quote: GeorgePane

lastly what about 6:5 double deck? i know avoid at all costs 6:5 ;p , but ...

You clearly don't know to avoid it at all costs. 6:5 quadrouples the house edge. Do you know what that does to your counting? When you have a TC +3, that means you STILL don't have an advantage. That would ruin your entire spread/EV/etc... You're losing a lot more money than you think by playing a game like that.

Avoid at ALL costs any 6:5 'blackjack' game.

Quote: GeorgePane

... any ideas? i know confusing questions just trying to get the most of the short run as im there for fun :))

An ace has the same chance of coming out of the deck for each card dealt no matter how many are playing. Not even the number of decks used will change that.

I suggest you go a few times, have some honest fun to see what all the hype is about. You don't want to become locked in the mind set of seeing an advantage everywhere. Not even in the pennies which can often be saved at the local grocery.

by the way im dealing myself many many times buying in with 200$... sometimes i get a streak and reach like 700$.... should i try to hide winnings there by pocketing chips or have everything out there seen by the cameras? should i leave before winning so much? if running count still + 6 or w/e , should i keep firing 100$ - 120$ bets on 10$ table?

Quote: GeorgePane

...Ace side could help but if will be my first time playing so ill struggle...

by the way im dealing myself many many times buying in with 200$... sometimes i get a streak and reach like 700$.... should i try to hide winnings there by pocketing chips or have everything out there seen by the cameras? should i leave before winning so much? if running count still + 6 or w/e , should i keep firing 100$ - 120$ bets on 10$ table?

Sorry to say this George, but you seem to be living in a dream.
Anyone playing ordinary basic strategy can expect to treble, quadrupal, or even do better with their modest bankroll quite quickly. That is a perfectly normal part of the rollercoaster that is Blackjack.But then, it is equally normal to get slaughtered quite often and give it all back.
A really skilled and experienced counter, playing the best games available will still have only the tiniest of advantages and will frequently have devastatingly bad trips. Card counting is not an easy road to riches. It can enhance the fun and could just about become a way of life, without ever being profitable.

Well as i mentioned before im trying the best for short run... Im not living in america so trips cost a lot yet that im not working anywhere... Trying the hi lo for the short run just to have more advantage... I dont know when its the right time to quit when count stays positive all shoe and im quadrupling my bankroll.., That happens once every 5-6 games when i play myself.. What if that hot streak happens when im on trip? I must exploit it as much as i can... So firing large bets is good when running count gets over 7,8... After all i play for excitement and i dont care at all if ill lose the trips bankroll. Who cares? So my question is throwin large bets suddenly gonna grab attention? Ive learned the part to count and bs, i just dont know how to manage money... Any ideas?

Quote: GeorgePane

Ive learned the part to count and bs, i just dont know how to manage money... Any ideas?

Seriously... The best of luck to you. I wish losing meant so little to me, but then winning wouldn't mean much either.
You do seem to be taking it for granted that you'll win. If the cost of travelling is so significant, how can you care so little about losing?

When playing for practice, maybe the sessions where you go broke are shorter and so less memorable?
What happens if you start your trip badly? Would you just fly back home?

Well i dont have $15K bankroll yet i just turned 21 and want to make the most money in this trip with my 1500$. If my trip starts badly i lose 2 sessions (150$ morning and 150$ at night) and the same next day, probably i wouldnt keep gambling.. I'll consider serious play in 10 years or so when ill have enough spending money =) my win this time is not to make thousands, bust doubling the session's 150$

Quote: GeorgePane

Well i dont have $15K bankroll yet i just turned 21 and want to make the most money in this trip with my 1500$. If my trip starts badly i lose 2 sessions (150$ morning and 150$ at night) and the same next day, probably i wouldnt keep gambling.. I'll consider serious play in 10 years or so when ill have enough spending money =) my win this time is not to make thousands, bust doubling the session's 150$

This is really disappointing to hear. We exchanged dozens and dozens of PM's with you asking me all kinds of detailed questions each of which I took a sufficient amount of time to answer properly. You should know everything you need to know at this point and just be left with practicing and becoming proficient. You should not be saying "$150 for morning, $150 for evening." You have a bankroll, you need to get a certain number of hours/hands per day to reach expectation. This has been discussed many times. There are no session numbers, such as $150 if lose stop playing. There are also no win limits, such as double your $150 buy in and quit. Again, as discussed previously it's about getting hours/hands.

If you're going to take more of a passive, recreational gambler approach, that's fine, but I don't see why you'd be so interested in asking literally dozens and dozens of detailed questions, nor continuing to ask such detailed questions. If you're going to primarily have fun, then I hope you have fun, but I hope you understand the time/effort it takes to answer all of these detailed questions correctly, and how it might be disappointing to hear that you're going to ask 100 questions, get 100 detailed answers, then go "eh, I don't care if I lose my bankroll I'm just gonna have fun."

i prefer not losing all of it in on the first day than spend it divided... of course if count was +++++ i would buy more chips but after a point i cant keep playing

and my goal isnt to win 2500$ , just to double days bankroll because you said i need overbet for that achievement

also doubling the days 300 , gets my to 600$ x 5 days = 3000$ more than what i want to achieve ... is that correct? and not needed to play 25$ mins