Backed Off - Need a new players card
Is it possible for me to get a new players card? I actually moved to a different state, so I have a new ID. Obviously my name and birthdate is the same.
I'd love to be able to sign up as a new player and get a new card.
Any thoughts / comments?
Thanks
I guess there could be people with the exact same name a day date of birth but they also have your picture from the old ID.
Quote: Baccaratfrom79I played for years unrated until the day I went over $10k Buy-in in collectively and that was it. But that was at only one place. Why cant you AP'ers just play without rating as 'Seat 1' or 'Seat 2', etc. If you are AP'er you don't need their measly free crap??? Just wondering. No offense.
Playing unrated can be big red flag to the pit. If you play unrated at Borgata, for example, your betting is automatically restricted before you play one hand.
Aliases are legal and used quite often, especially in the entertainment world.
John Wayne is the best example. That is what appeared on all his legal identification. But look up his birth certificate and SS # and that is not the name you would see.
Quote: FleaStiffbacked off or "trespassed warning"???
Those are two different things. I said backed off. "Sir you can play anything but blackjack....."
Quote: GWAEWhy would you think a new state would matter?
I guess there could be people with the exact same name a day date of birth but they also have your picture from the old ID.
Are you sure they have my picture from my old ID? If that's the case then I wouldn't be able to get a new ID with the same name.
Quote: VPPlayerAre you sure they have my picture from my old ID? If that's the case then I wouldn't be able to get a new ID with the same name.
Around here, when signing up for a new player's card, they ask for your ID.
They scan the face of your ID into the computer. Any time anyone pulls up your player account at the booth, the pit, the hotel, or restaurant, they can click on the "See ID" button and see that you look like your ID (or not).
Your mileage may vary.
The flipside of that is that they also ask "have you had a players card with us before?" A skillfully chosen one word response may have them push the "new player" button instead of the "lookup existing account" button.
Again, your mileage may vary.
If they hand you a new card and it already has points on the account, you probably didn't get a new account, and you can assume that the new card still says you can't play blackjack.
So yes, it is possible.
Quote: VPPlayerAre you sure they have my picture from my old ID? If that's the case then I wouldn't be able to get a new ID with the same name.
He meant the casino already has your picture from your old ID.
If you go in with your new ID they'll pull the old picture and compare.
Quote: darkozYou can see about getting an alias. The government hands those out. There are certain requirements but the casino will not recognize your new name.
Aliases are legal and used quite often, especially in the entertainment world.
John Wayne is the best example. That is what appeared on all his legal identification. But look up his birth certificate and SS # and that is not the name you would see.
so if i change my name to Ben Dover, that name will appear on my driver's license and that will be the name that I use to apply to jobs, etc? Or can I just use the alias for certain things, such as the casino?
Quote: Baccaratfrom79If you are AP'er you don't need their measly free crap???
The free crap a lot of times isn't measly though.
I've paid team mates' wages with the free crap before. I had one guy work for me all weekend in exchange for bottle service at a nightclub. Another time I got a buddy to hold a seat at a table for half an hour for my team (while a team mate was traveling back from another venue) in exchange for getting my host to walk him and his friends to the front of the line at the club they were going to wait in line for.
For every 100K I win from the casinos I get another 5 - 10K in stuff comped.
Quote: sc15The free crap a lot of times isn't measly though.
I've paid team mates' wages with the free crap before. I had one guy work for me all weekend in exchange for bottle service at a nightclub. Another time I got a buddy to hold a seat at a table for half an hour for my team (while a team mate was traveling back from another venue) in exchange for getting my host to walk him and his friends to the front of the line at the club they were going to wait in line for.
For every 100K I win from the casinos I get another 5 - 10K in stuff comped.
SC15, thanks and I know all about comps. The Grand Deluxe Senators Suite we had at CP was over $1,400.00 a night and we were there for 6 nights. We also had about $4,500 of F&B&I and all the $13-14k was fully comp'd. We only pay cash tips.
But I was saying for the average AP'er he can be undercover, hit and run and no one would anything, I have tons of friends that do it as a profession. They try to hit $1k a day, 4 or 5 days and that is it. The highest majority of them pay $60-80 or so a night for a place to crash and buy there own food.
Quote: Avincowso if i change my name to Ben Dover, that name will appear on my driver's license and that will be the name that I use to apply to jobs, etc? Or can I just use the alias for certain things, such as the casino?
I know Ben Dover. His wife is Eileen.
Quote: arcticfunAside from obtaining a legal alias, can anyone suggest other options? Fake IDs sound like a bad idea though many seem to do so...?
Why are fake IDs a bad idea?
Tons of APers use them.
Quote: sc15Why are fake IDs a bad idea?
Tons of APers use them.
What's the repercussion if you get caught with one? Is it an arrestable or fineable offense? Does it just get confiscated?
My question to the OP, is did you learn your lesson from what caused your original backed off? If the answer is no, then you are just going to spend a lot of time getting new IDs.
Quote: DeucekiesWhat's the repercussion if you get caught with one? Is it an arrestable or fineable offense? Does it just get confiscated?
Don't know.
Never carry a fake ID when you're playing. Use it to set up the player's card and use it to redeem comps, but you don't need to have it with you at the table.
Quote: DeucekiesWhat's the repercussion if you get caught with one? Is it an arrestable or fineable offense? Does it just get confiscated?
Depends on jurisdiction. In some jurisdictions, simply having a fake ID in your possession is a criminal offense with possible penalties including jail time.
Using it (i.e. showing it to a boothling to get a new club card) may be either fraud or uttering a forgery. Assume that either of these cases is a felony.
I am not a lawyer. Consult your lawyer.
Likewise, I'm not a lawyer.
IMO, I'd say get an alias or a name change. Idk, talk to a lawyer.
Quote: RSLong story short, I know someone who isn't me got caught with a fake ID. Everything ended up being fine, but, the police wanted to make sure the ID hadn't been used for setting up any accounts (bank, casino, or whatever other kind of accounts you can have). Since no accounts were linked with the card, everything was fine. But, had that ID been used for an account, then it'd be identity theft.
Likewise, I'm not a lawyer.
IMO, I'd say get an alias or a name change. Idk, talk to a lawyer.
Umm, wouldn't the person have to exist in order for it to be identity theft?
If it's a fabricated identity not based off a real person then how is it identity theft?
Now, if you were to pull someone's real name, address, and birthdate out of the white pages and use that info on a fake ID, you'd be facing some serious charges.
Check out Ian Andersen's book: Burning the tables in Las Vegas.
It talks about camouflage, longevity, legally changing your name in other states, and more.
He mentions having many legally obtained, government issued IDs from different states for the purpose of privacy.
I'm not sure if he uses it to play at places he has been barred at.
He did mention in his book that he played at places he was once barred at and didn't run into issues.
I'm not sure if this is true, but I don't think this would be possible anymore today; floors are much sharper and it is tough to fly under the radar.
I believe all casinos scan the ID when a player's card is made. So if you do happen to change your name, make sure you take a new picture with it. Not only that, but they can swipe your card to verify if the information matches and if the card is legitimate. Therefore, forget about the fake ID and obtain a legal, government issued one.
Quote: sc15Umm, wouldn't the person have to exist in order for it to be identity theft?
If it's a fabricated identity not based off a real person then how is it identity theft?
Now, if you were to pull someone's real name, address, and birthdate out of the white pages and use that info on a fake ID, you'd be facing some serious charges.
You're right [I think]. I left out a key part I thought I included. The number on the DL actually matched up to a real person's DL #. [IMO, that part could'a just been made up by the cops, but whatever.] The matching DL # = Identity Theft.
Using a fake ID for an account = fraud.
At least that's how it was explained to someone who isn't me...and his memory is a bit foggy.
Quote: sc15Don't know.
Never carry a fake ID when you're playing. Use it to set up the player's card and use it to redeem comps, but you don't need to have it with you at the table.
@SC15, do you have experience with this -- and does that mean you use several different player cards at a given joint (or chain of joints, say, MLife)?
I have known people who have done something Like this ro get a new players card. They get the players card but then a few days latet find their old account merged with the new account. I'm thinking it has to do with the DOB. How they know its not someone else born the same year and day you were I don't know.Quote: ShadowlessYou can legally change your name and obtain a government issued ID with the new name on it.
Check out Ian Andersen's book: Burning the tables in Las Vegas.
It talks about camouflage, longevity, legally changing your name in other states, and more.
He mentions having many legally obtained, government issued IDs from different states for the purpose of privacy.
I'm not sure if he uses it to play at places he has been barred at.
He did mention in his book that he played at places he was once barred at and didn't run into issues.
I'm not sure if this is true, but I don't think this would be possible anymore today; floors are much sharper and it is tough to fly under the radar.
I believe all casinos scan the ID when a player's card is made. So if you do happen to change your name, make sure you take a new picture with it. Not only that, but they can swipe your card to verify if the information matches and if the card is legitimate. Therefore, forget about the fake ID and obtain a legal, government issued one.
Quote: 1BBI know Ben Dover. His wife is Eileen.
They are divorced now and Ben married an Asian girl named Irene.
Quote: arcticfun@SC15, do you have experience with this -- and does that mean you use several different player cards at a given joint (or chain of joints, say, MLife)?
I've gotten to the point where I pretty much use a new name almost every time I play at certain places, because I have so many players cards I don't remember which ones are clean and which aren't.
Other places I use my real name since I have things like lines of credit which you can't get with a fake ID unless you're committing some serious fraud.
I don't think using a fake ID in nevada to get player's card is illegal. Or if it is, police won't file charges for it. Because if it was, you would hear about APers getting arrested for using fake IDs all the time.
Quote: sc15I've gotten to the point where I pretty much use a new name almost every time I play at certain places, because I have so many players cards I don't remember which ones are clean and which aren't.
Other places I use my real name since I have things like lines of credit which you can't get with a fake ID unless you're committing some serious fraud.
I don't think using a fake ID in nevada to get player's card is illegal. Or if it is, police won't file charges for it. Because if it was, you would hear about APers getting arrested for using fake IDs all the time.
I spent a lot, way too much, time today trying to put into place another line of credit with one of the major outfits. They want a lot, I may have to date the lady's younger sister at least twice to even be considered. Have you seen that sister? I may give up Blackjack altogether... Just saying. 2F
Quote: sc15
I don't think using a fake ID in nevada to get player's card is illegal. Or if it is, police won't file charges for it. Because if it was, you would hear about APers getting arrested for using fake IDs all the time.
OK so it sounds like a fake ID in the large Vegas casinos can get you a new player's card with a reasonable success rate -- that's how you get the cards? Generally, when getting a new player card, I give my ID to the PB and they do it for me. Would you recommend this method or going to the player card desk?
Quote: arcticfunOK so it sounds like a fake ID in the large Vegas casinos can get you a new player's card with a reasonable success rate -- that's how you get the cards? Generally, when getting a new player card, I give my ID to the PB and they do it for me. Would you recommend this method or going to the player card desk?
definitely go to the player card desk if you're using a bogus ID.
Quote: darkozYou can see about getting an alias. The government hands those out.
Where does the government hand those out?
Quote: sc15definitely go to the player card desk if you're using a bogus ID.
In some places they have ID scanners at the players club but not in the pits.
Quote: AbeFrohmanIn some places they have ID scanners at the players club but not in the pits.
Yeah, I'm not sure if an alias will work with ID scanners.
Remember you are still known by the government as your original identity. You are just using a legal alias like a writer might use a pen name.
The scan of barcode from alias ID might pull up your natural name.
I assume if Dr. Seuss went to the casino, his real name of Theodore Geisel might easily come up when scanning his card.
Quote: AbeFrohmanIn some places they have ID scanners at the players club but not in the pits.
Eh, I never thought of it this way since my IDs scan. Not all of them do when I get them, but I bought one of those scanners the bar bouncers use and toss any ID that doesn't scan properly.
You can always tell the players club desk you don't want your ID scanned. If questioned, it's because of identity theft. It's YOUR ID, so they have no right to scan it if you say they can't. (They have the right to refuse you a player's card, but most places won't. The scanner actually puts your info into the computer automatically so it's really to save time on their end).
Remember a passport has a different ID number from a Drivers License and doesn't have a home address on it. If you go the fake ID route be sure the risk/reward is worth it. If you aren't playing for chunky black action you'd probably just be better off playing unrated.
Quote: sc15
I don't think using a fake ID in nevada to get player's card is illegal. Or if it is, police won't file charges for it. Because if it was, you would hear about APers getting arrested for using fake IDs all the time.
They can charge you with a crime in NV for using a fake NV ID in NV. If you use a fake other state ID in NV it's not a crime unless you are committing fraud. Beware though in other states, Florida for example, just possessing a fake government issued ID from any state is a felony. Good to know the laws state by state before using these items (or taking extra care not to bring them with you to the casino after you get a players card). Getting a players card is not fraud because a players card has zero monetary value until you play on it therefore it's the play, not the card that give it value. I know that some enterprising DA's have tried to charge some players with fraud but I don't know of any instances anywhere where those charges have stuck in a real court. Although I'd suggest you're probably committing fraud by using a bunch of fake ID's to do new player loss rebates, but it isn't fraud to bring busloads of street bums in to do the rebates with you controlling the action and taking most of the money and all of the risk. I do know of a particularly notorious player for a major Boston Team that was forced to payback all comps that he'd ever redeemed under his alias to a tribal casino in the Midwest. The casino simply went to his room and stole his money from his briefcase and then when he sued to get it back deducted the lifetime amount of his comps and told him tough shit they're making their own laws. Still with legal fees and such being pretty expensive in criminal situations it's a good idea to be aware of the risk/reward balance before you begin using these tools.
Quote: bigplayerit's a good idea to be aware of the risk/reward
I wont even touch on this subject again. I feel it is ludicrous to instruct or lend credence for this subject. However, back to the core of business and even personal decisions, 'risk versus reward'. Core basic that should be included in many day to day decision.
Take a minute to reflect on that when you are trying to think if something is worth doing. "What is my risk---What is my reward".
I won 14 hands in a row to finish the shoe. That included 2 blackjacks and a couple of double downs. I don't keep track of things like wins or losses in a row but the dealer was kind enough to do it for me. The count stayed right around even so every bet was a flat $25 much to the chagrin of the dealer who kept encouraging me to take advantage of the "hot" shoe. This dealer also made sure that I knew my success was due to his extraordinary dealing skills.
During the shuffle, the pit boss came over to quietly talk to the dealer after which he flat bet me to one hand at table minimum. That was the first shoe I had played and, remember, I had never raised my bet for the entire shoe. One of the funniest and dumbest things I ever saw.
Quote: bigplayerImagine how many John Smith's born on July 20th are in the Total Rewards system.
...Halloween conception? Not an auspicious date I'd've come up with...
Quote: RogerKintWord is that pit boss switched careers to WOV secret admin.
At least now we know he'll be fair. :-)
Quote: 1BBAt least now we know he'll be fair. :-)
damn it, don't make me laugh at work. I gonna get caught.
