beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
  • Threads: 100
  • Posts: 14267
Joined: May 21, 2013
February 13th, 2015 at 8:42:46 AM permalink
Quote: nvr55xx

This nonsense about "players ruining the order of the cards" is why Blackjack is dying. A first time player (Bob) walks up to a table with an empty spot, and one or more players yells "Wait! You can't come in now, it'll ruin the order of the cards". So Bob sits for 10 minutes, when he would rather be playing. On the first hand, Bob gets dealt A7 vs the dealer's 10 up card, while all the other players are dealt hard 19. Knowing that it is a basic strategy hit Bob taps the table and draws a 3 for 21. Rather than congratulating him, all the other players say "You took the dealer's bust card!". The dealer has a 6 under for 16 and then deals a 4 for a total of 20. All the other players complain and yell at him. "You selfish jerk. If you stood, you would have saved the table!" Pointing out that it's a basic strategy hit and that he would have lost his own hand had he stood, the other players respond with "So what? When you play at a full table, you have to think about the other players." Getting tired of being yelled at, Bob leaves and decides to play Ultimate Texas Hold'em instead.

Unfortunately, dealers and casino personelle often spread these myths. I'm pretty sure that in the 60's you could have split 10's against a 5 or 6, enter mid-shoe, etc. and nobody would have said anything.



+100. The casinos need to take the lead on this and stop bullying by players at the table. If they can't play well with others, they're the ones who need to be moved on, not the people there to play socially. Can't tell you how many people I know who've walked away from the game that was supposed to be entertainment. And you-all need the "ploppy" cover we provide.

The more they let this go on, the more the misinformation and bully tactics spread.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 1264
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
February 13th, 2015 at 8:52:35 AM permalink
Quote: nvr55xx

A first time player (Bob) walks up to a table with an empty spot, and one or more players yells "Wait! You can't come in now, it'll ruin the order of the cards". So Bob sits for 10 minutes, when he would rather be playing. On the first hand, Bob gets dealt A7 vs the dealer's 10 up card, while all the other players are dealt hard 19. Knowing that it is a basic strategy hit Bob taps the table and draws a 3 for 21. Rather than congratulating him, all the other players say "You took the dealer's bust card!". The dealer has a 6 under for 16 and then deals a 4 for a total of 20. All the other players complain and yell at him. "You selfish jerk. If you stood, you would have saved the table!"



How did drawing a 3 "take the dealer's bust card", ... ever? A dealer will never bust with a draw of A, 2, 3, 4, or 5. If I was at the table, I'd be pleased to see a player at third base draw a three , while I sat on a 19 with with a dealer 10 card showing.
Romes
Romes
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 5604
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
February 13th, 2015 at 9:04:02 AM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP

How did drawing a 3 "take the dealer's bust card", ... ever? A dealer will never bust with a draw of A, 2, 3, 4, or 5. If I was at the table, I'd be pleased to see a player at third base draw a three , while I sat on a 19 with with a dealer 10 card showing.


You get the idea... 1) the 3 would have made the dealer 19 for a push to the other players, the 4 that came made them all lose... 2) Replace 3 with 10 and you get the desired results as well.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 5583
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
February 13th, 2015 at 10:07:30 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

The casinos need to take the lead on this and stop bullying by players at the table.



Most places I play, the floors do exactly this. They'll allow a little grousing, but as soon as anybody starts getting really ornery, they step in and remind the table that everyone is allowed to make whatever play decisions they like on their hand.

A few things in the hinterlands are OK.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
  • Threads: 135
  • Posts: 2178
Joined: Dec 8, 2013
February 13th, 2015 at 10:57:19 AM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP

How did drawing a 3 "take the dealer's bust card", ... ever? A dealer will never bust with a draw of A, 2, 3, 4, or 5. If I was at the table, I'd be pleased to see a player at third base draw a three , while I sat on a 19 with with a dealer 10 card showing.



I noticed this too. Clearly he made a mistake in putting together an otherwise good scenario.
RS
RS
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8626
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
February 13th, 2015 at 11:03:37 AM permalink
I love saying "I saved the table" when nothing I did effected anyone's win loss. Usually something like hitting 9vT, catch a Ten (for 19), dealer pulls a 6 under (for 16) then draws a face card for a bust. A surprising (well, not really surprising) amount of the time people are like, "Wow you're right nice hit!! You saved the table!"..... Even though I'd be an idiot to hit 19vT.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 1264
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
February 13th, 2015 at 11:48:03 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

You get the idea... 1) the 3 would have made the dealer 19 for a push to the other players, the 4 that came made them all lose... 2) Replace 3 with 10 and you get the desired results as well.



I get the scenario, but when the other players saw the 3 and immediately claimed that 'Bob' "took the bust card" before the dealer flipped his card, doesn't make sense, as a 3 will never bust the dealer.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 1264
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
February 13th, 2015 at 11:49:21 AM permalink
Quote: Greasyjohn

I noticed this too. Clearly he made a mistake in putting together an otherwise good scenario.



Yes, I almost didn't say anything, because I think the intent of the post is valid.
1BB
1BB
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 5339
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
February 13th, 2015 at 12:14:15 PM permalink
Quote: nvr55xx

This nonsense about "players ruining the order of the cards" is why Blackjack is dying. A first time player (Bob) walks up to a table with an empty spot, and one or more players yells "Wait! You can't come in now, it'll ruin the order of the cards". So Bob sits for 10 minutes, when he would rather be playing. On the first hand, Bob gets dealt A7 vs the dealer's 10 up card, while all the other players are dealt hard 19. Knowing that it is a basic strategy hit Bob taps the table and draws a 3 for 21. Rather than congratulating him, all the other players say "You took the dealer's bust card!". The dealer has a 6 under for 16 and then deals a 4 for a total of 20. All the other players complain and yell at him. "You selfish jerk. If you stood, you would have saved the table!" Pointing out that it's a basic strategy hit and that he would have lost his own hand had he stood, the other players respond with "So what? When you play at a full table, you have to think about the other players." Getting tired of being yelled at, Bob leaves and decides to play Ultimate Texas Hold'em instead.

Unfortunately, dealers and casino personelle often spread these myths. I'm pretty sure that in the 60's you could have split 10's against a 5 or 6, enter mid-shoe, etc. and nobody would have said anything.



I know I've mentioned this before. Have you ever tried asking the other players or the dealer for advice? They love it when you do and it makes them feel like we're all on the same "team". I'll ask them on a close play such as 12 vs a 2, 3 or even a 4 and on a 3 card 16 vs a 10. Many times it will be what I was going to do anyway. Since these hands are not played the same way every time, things could go sideways but I seldom hang around that long.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Mow21
Mow21
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 28
Joined: Feb 9, 2015
February 13th, 2015 at 12:42:15 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Most places I play, the floors do exactly this. They'll allow a little grousing, but as soon as anybody starts getting really ornery, they step in and remind the table that everyone is allowed to make whatever play decisions they like on their hand.

A few things in the hinterlands are OK.



I wish this were the case in my neck of the woods. It seems the pit is composed of people that don't know proper BS or simply don't want to be there. If the pit were more interactive I think people would be much more understanding and tolerant of everyone's plays.
Edge21
Edge21
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 29
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
February 13th, 2015 at 12:53:48 PM permalink
I've witnessed a Ploppy getting so angry for not getting the cards that he wanted at Blackjack, and threw the cards at the dealer. One guy even went for his zipper and told the dealer that he would whip it out and slap it across her face for being a c*nt of a dealer!? Pit boss laughed it off and told the poor girl that he's a good customer. (Good as in he drops loads of cash and never wins.)

What the hell?
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 5583
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
February 13th, 2015 at 1:04:12 PM permalink
Quote: Mow21

the pit is composed of people that don't know proper BS



Most of them don't know BS here, either. ("No, you never double soft 19!") I think I've met one floor who actually knew BS.

They just don't tolerate players bullying other players. Many cases someone has been starting to yell at someone else for "taking his bust card", or some other thing, and they'll come over and say "he has the right to play his hand like he wants, just like you do."

Everyone just needs to remember that half the time a "nonstandard" play helps everyone else, half the time it hurts everyone else, and the third half of the time it makes no difference whatsoever.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Romes
Romes
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 5604
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
February 13th, 2015 at 1:11:49 PM permalink
Quote: Edge21

I've witnessed a Ploppy getting so angry for not getting the cards that he wanted at Blackjack, and threw the cards at the dealer. One guy even went for his zipper and told the dealer that he would whip it out and slap it across her face for being a c*nt of a dealer!? Pit boss laughed it off and told the poor girl that he's a good customer. (Good as in he drops loads of cash and never wins.)

What the hell?


I would have personally escorted the guy to the nearest security officer. There wouldn't have been an option for him not to leave the table at that point. Unwanted attention or not, that's not something I would ever allow to happen in my presence to anyone. Same thing if I was in a diner and someone threw bread at a server or something. I'm glad I've never seen something that bad. The worst I've seen is poppies berating the dealer, telling them they suck, or they hate them, etc... but at that point I chime in and say something like "See the cards in that shoe? They're already there... The person pulling them out doesn't change the order that they're in. Yelling at a dealer just shows how little you know about the game." I'm not a huge guy, but I'm also not a small guy, and when I say something like that I say it so I know my point is heard. Thankfully every time that's happened the person usually leaves, shuts up, or directs their anger at the cards and stops berating the dealer at least.

Now the million dollar question: Would I still speak up and draw unwanted attention if this was my full time profession? Especially if I were at my fav place, already getting heat, or something? ...That would be an interesting situation to be in. My guess is I'd still handle it the same.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Sonuvabish
Sonuvabish
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 1342
Joined: Feb 5, 2014
February 14th, 2015 at 1:30:33 AM permalink
I occassionally point out to a stupid table that I saved the table, after doubling an 11. If I wouldn't have taken a card, everyone would have lost.
Sonuvabish
Sonuvabish
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 1342
Joined: Feb 5, 2014
February 14th, 2015 at 1:38:37 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Everyone just needs to remember that half the time a "nonstandard" play helps everyone else, half the time it hurts everyone else, and the third half of the time it makes no difference whatsoever.



I'm pretty sure that's 150% of the time. Is there time travel involved????
Hubomba
Hubomba
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 17
Joined: Feb 24, 2015
February 24th, 2015 at 7:52:40 PM permalink
I don't understand, you made all of the correct playing decisions, usually those psychos only get mad when you play out of book, but from the hands you described you didn't even have the opportunity to vary your BS based on the count. Regardless ignore these ploppy psychos, there is no convincing them of anything and they are morons.
Avincow
Avincow
  • Threads: 24
  • Posts: 395
Joined: Oct 17, 2014
February 24th, 2015 at 11:05:58 PM permalink
People get mad if you hit 12 v 3, if you stand 12 v 3, if you split, if you hit/double anything over 16, if you surrender, if you take the dealer's bust card, if you let the dealer take your small card etc. The player who tries to please everyone, pleases no one, especially himself.
Nostron
Nostron
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 140
Joined: Jan 7, 2013
February 25th, 2015 at 7:45:18 AM permalink
I'm curious where you guys play that you encounter all these assholes? I have played thousands of hours from Vegas to New Orleans to Cherokee to Tampa to cruise ships to gambling boats.

I have seen the occasional eye roll and grumbling but only twice in my 20 years or so of gambling have I seen any rude behavior and both times the pissed off player got up and left quickly.
1BB
1BB
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 5339
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
February 25th, 2015 at 8:06:28 AM permalink
Quote: Nostron

I'm curious where you guys play that you encounter all these assholes? I have played thousands of hours from Vegas to New Orleans to Cherokee to Tampa to cruise ships to gambling boats.

I have seen the occasional eye roll and grumbling but only twice in my 20 years or so of gambling have I seen any rude behavior and both times the pissed off player got up and left quickly.



I'm pretty sure that I've played more blackjack than most of the good folks on this site and in at least as many countries.

I agree completely, Nostron. This just doesn't happen all that often. When it does, we tend to remember. I know I do. Even if it's been a while, I do not forget a rude, disruptive person. No one ever speaks about all the wonderful people you meet over the years because, quite frankly, it's not exciting. I don't know if that falls under selective memory or just remembering the ones who make the biggest impression, albeit the wrong one.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
chupacabra31
chupacabra31
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 14
Joined: Feb 19, 2015
February 25th, 2015 at 10:20:12 AM permalink
I played next to a player like that! He kept slamming the table and screaming at the other players. Why didnt you hit on that!! You should have doubled! Raaawww! He was VERY threatening looking too. I swear he was packing. He was doing very well with $29 bets then a hand came up (dont remember the exact hand) where it might be advisable to split and he kept yelling should I split or hit. So some of the players told him to split. So he split and lost. He slammed the table and walked away. I was so greatful. The next thing I know he is back and standing right behind me of all people! He is basically telling me how to play. Which is fine because he kind of seems to know bs. However he wants me to hit when I have a 15 and the dealer has a 3. I went against his play, because well I am pretty sure he is wrong and unfortunately the dealer got 21. He starts berating me you should have hit! The next hand is very similar, again I stay and he is yelling you should have hit! Well the dealer bust. He still says I should have hit! lol! He then says if I win you this next hand gimmie $20! What?! Seriously? I dont even know this guy! I won back my money and enough to pay for gas on the next hand and I got the hell out of there. He followed me and asked me if he could have $20!!
thegov2k2
thegov2k2
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 69
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
February 25th, 2015 at 10:53:43 AM permalink
Quote: Nostron

I'm curious where you guys play that you encounter all these assholes? I have played thousands of hours from Vegas to New Orleans to Cherokee to Tampa to cruise ships to gambling boats.

I have seen the occasional eye roll and grumbling but only twice in my 20 years or so of gambling have I seen any rude behavior and both times the pissed off player got up and left quickly.



The most egregious instance I've seen was in Montreal. I was playing with a friend who really had no grasp of basic strategy and was doing whatever the hell he wanted. The player next to me, after a hand where my friend made some sort of boneheaded play, stood up out of his seat, pounded his fists on the table, and started SCREAMING at my friend in French. Not being French speakers, we had no idea what he was saying. Whatever the play was pissed this guy off so much that at the end of the shoe, he got up and left. The dealer just said "they're your cards, play them however you like". Nobody said anything to the incensed player. In Atlantic City, such behavior would have gotten him escorted out.
mickeycrimm
mickeycrimm
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 2299
Joined: Jul 13, 2013
February 25th, 2015 at 12:01:31 PM permalink
Quote: DrawingDead

Something similar to this crap happens at poker tables, often in the form of: "How could you call me with that trash!" Of course the person doing it is always the least competent player at the table, and is always wrong. Always, every time. And when a weak staff chooses not to do their job and step in to deal with it as they should, one develops a few handy stock responses to shut them up enough to move on, so they can finish losing their money. Don't know if this works the same in the pit, but some of mine are:

    1. MP3 player + earbuds + volume knob.

    2. "No hablo Inglés, Senor."

    3. Psycho gibberish, delivered with a crooked maniacal smile & slightly themed to the game at the table: "The hypoteneuse of the reverse implied Sklansky ace outs exceeded the square root of stack to kettle ratio... so I called." I find his one works best when you're seriously short on sleep & haven't had a chance to shave in a couple of days so you may plausibly look like someone who's supposed to be on some kind of serious medication, but isn't.



My response to the guy that says "How can you call with that?" when I win the pot with nothing but an Ace high is "How can you bet nothing into a calling station?" Of course the guy has no clue that I've been watching him bluff the pot for the last two hours.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 333
Joined: Feb 3, 2015
February 26th, 2015 at 10:29:53 AM permalink
Sometimes I think it's easier to survive hitting a 16 over a 12. 12's really annoy me. I have no problem hitting them, even against a 6. The other day 3 of us at the table all got 12's against a 5. The other 2 actually decide to double. I just hit. They end up losing and I won. Kinda messed up. Later I busted with a 10. Nobody else hit and it would have been the bust card. So instead of us all winning, we all lost. Kinda felt bad about that but that's the way it goes. I'm not one of those guys who believes in the flow of the cards so I dont get mad at other players. The other day a guy split 5's against a 10! Yes split, not doubled. I just shook my head the whole time. When the dealer busted I told the him he was one lucky guy.

Sometimes the real degenerate types can be annoying to play with. You just have to deal with it. I find it best to not say anything back to them or just shrug your shoulders. I was playing next to a lady once. There was an open spot between us. I had played 2 hands a few times and she did as well. I noticed the count getting a little high, so I asked her if I could play it. A guy next to her who had maybe been there 5 minutes looked at me and said I'll let you know know in one minute if that was a good idea. The dealer then turned a 5 into 21. He got all mad and stomped off. The lady turned to me and said thanks for getting rid of him.
  • Jump to: