What to do during a backoff or when flat-betted
Quote: kewljI thought I read somewhere (a while ago) that surveillance people were kept almost completely segregated from other casino employees, because a large part of their responsibility was monitoring employees. So much so, that surveillance had separate entrances, to minimimze contact with other employees.
I'm sure some casinos might do stuff like have separate entrances for them, it's unlikely that all casinos (especially smaller ones) do that.
I do see the benefits of that though. If you have employee A investigating employee B for internal theft, you don't really want them talking to each other.
Quote: sc15I do see the benefits of that though. If you have employee A investigating employee B for internal theft, you don't really want them talking to each other.
Yes, you're correct. And it get's really interesting when one of them has a hot spot time share property that they like to rent out. But that's a story for another time.
Quote: KeyserUnless you're a cocktail waitress, then you likely hate your job in the casino, and you probably suffer from some of the following: moral decay, anxiety, cynicism, and or depression.
Working in casinos really has a devastating effect on most people. Casinos should do more to help people leaving casino employment cope in the outside world.
Casino is just another job/clientele, but it tends to bring out traits in us faster than most.
Quote: KeyserAnd it get's really interesting when one of them has a hot spot time share property that they like to rent out.
I knew a player who was up there in the real world before his wife sued for half of it, and he got into gambling. He knew a lot of the casino higher-ups, and seemed to be able to tell me about my own late night action here and there in the morning, when he came in to play, before I had time to digest it myself.
Quote: WandererSo the general consensus here if you get a tap on the shoulder is to politely talk to the person (or persons). If they mention card counting or wanting to take you off the floor to some back room, just respectfully tell them you want to leave and then calmly walk out the door. And if they try to physically prevent you from doing so and detain you, you have a good chance in a lawsuit. And if you have chips, cash them another day on a different shift. Does that sum it up?
Would you resident experts agree with this?
That pretty much sums it up. Don't have an extended conversation. Don't try to get them to change their minds. The less interaction the better.Quote: WandererWould you resident experts agree with this?
Quote: WandererWould you resident experts agree with this?
In more of a summed up fashion, yes, I would agree with your statement.
ZCore13
Quote: WandererQuote: WandererSo the general consensus here if you get a tap on the shoulder is to politely talk to the person (or persons). If they mention card counting or wanting to take you off the floor to some back room, just respectfully tell them you want to leave and then calmly walk out the door. And if they try to physically prevent you from doing so and detain you, you have a good chance in a lawsuit. And if you have chips, cash them another day on a different shift. Does that sum it up?
Would you resident experts agree with this?
Hesitate to call myself an expert, but yeah that's a good summary. Also don't show ID, as ZCore mentioned.
I feel compelled not to let this thread end, by adding these 2 you tube videos of this gentleman's force-able backroom situation after denying to produce I.D. Cops were also called to the scene.
WATCH:
Video 1: Casino floor footage of casino personal physically forcing the man into the backroom against his will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBdk1yG2pmU (no audio)
Video 2: backroom with police.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlMexfd2e8s (has audio)
Listen to what this cop says: 0:35 - 1:03
(His justification for detainment is all over the place)
Cop says: "Counting cards is what they are accusing you of."
Justin says: "Card counting is legal."
Cop replies: "That might be legal in your mind, but unfortunately not here. There are ordinates - .... mumble.... mumble (not sure what he says after that)."
Cop says: "This is a private establishment, they need your id, to ban you from coming back. You can't leave here until we id who you are."
Thoughts? Opinions? Does he have a chance at a lawsuit?
Quote: stabworldJust got finished reading this whole thread.
I feel compelled not to let this thread end, by adding these 2 you tube videos of this gentleman's force-able backroom situation after denying to produce I.D. Cops were also called to the scene.
WATCH:
Video 1: Casino floor footage of casino personal physically forcing the man into the backroom against his will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBdk1yG2pmU (no audio)
Video 2: backroom with police.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlMexfd2e8s (has audio)
Listen to what this cop says: 0:35 - 1:03
(His justification for detainment is all over the place)
Cop says: "Counting cards is what they are accusing you of."
Justin says: "Card counting is legal."
Cop replies: "That might be legal in your mind, but unfortunately not here. There are ordinates - .... mumble.... mumble (not sure what he says after that)."
Cop says: "This is a private establishment, they need your id, to ban you from coming back. You can't leave here until we id who you are."
Thoughts? Opinions? Does he have a chance at a lawsuit?
I believe the case is winding through the courts at this time. Justin Mills is a member of a few forums including Norm's.
On the day of his run in, the casino sent a limo to pick him up. He was on his own for the ride home. :-(
Unfortunately, I think he may have some trouble there, since he wasn't assaulted or roughed up. Of course, he was illegally detained....but I don't know how much he would get just from that (I don't think very much).
Quote: 1BBOn the day of his run in, the casino sent a limo to pick him up
Which means that they didn't actually need to get his ID
I don't know how to count cards. But my position is if you're not using any devices (other than your brain) to count it should not be illegal or against the house rules unless otherwise posted. Or like someone mentioned if casinos really don't want anyone using skill to gain an advantage in a game of chance then the game needs to be modified to neutralize the real/perceived advantage.
Of course casinos are businesses and want to rake in your money, not bleed to you long term. So they will be sleazy and allow sheeps to play but mess with you smart cunning coyotes that really know how to count.
My favorite games are: Craps > PGP (with $5 bonus every hand) >>>>>> then much farther down my interest level:> LIR > Roulette > Bac/BJ.
As I shall forever remain a sheep in the gambling world, I think I will continue to be welcome.
Quote: 1BBI believe the case is winding through the courts at this time. Justin Mills is a member of a few forums including Norm's.
On the day of his run in, the casino sent a limo to pick him up. He was on his own for the ride home. :-(
It makes you wonder if the casino already knew he was a counter, and baited him into coming by sending the limo.
Wait is it ka-yo-tea or ka-yoat?
Quote: Zcore13It couldn't be any more simple. They tell you they don't want your action anymore. You say, Ok thank you and you leave. If they ask for any ID or any other information say no thank you and continue to leave. That ends 99.9% of all back-offs.
ZCore13
I got backed off roulette a couple weeks
ago on a Fri night because I wasn't betting
every spin. A PitDick came up and said 'bet
every spin or leave the table.' I said, if I
argue, what will happen. He said 'what do
you think will happen.' I cashed in and left.
I saw his point. All the color was gone and
people were waiting for an opening and
I'm not betting every spin. On Fri they care,
during the week it never happens.
Quote: EvenBobI got backed off roulette a couple weeks
ago on a Fri night because I wasn't betting
every spin. A PitDick came up and said 'bet
every spin or leave the table.' I said, if I
argue, what will happen. He said 'what do
you think will happen.' I cashed in and left.
I saw his point. All the color was gone and
people were waiting for an opening and
I'm not betting every spin. On Fri they care,
during the week it never happens.
Yup. Pretty simple way to handle it. You didn't cause a scene and/or give them a chance to make one. You now have the choice to go back and play some other time or not.
Is there a rule anywhere that says one has to play every roll? No. Could you have caused a scene asking them where that rule is? Of course. But why bother. It's rarely (very rarely) a winning battle.
ZCore13
Quote: RSA "smart cunning coyote"....I like the sounds of that.
Wait is it ka-yo-tea or ka-yoat?
Haha I say "ko-yo-tea" for the animal and "co-yo-te" Spanish for the smuggler. Never pronounced it "ka-yoat."
