Wino
Wino
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 177
Joined: Dec 13, 2014
December 13th, 2014 at 8:46:35 AM permalink
My question relates to the Basic Strategy chart for double deck where it says to split 6s against dealer's 7 if double after split is allowed otherwise hit. And in the same way to split 7s against dealer's 8. Does card composition make so much of a difference in double deck and if so how/reasoning? Would the computer not worry about player getting two 16s and losing against dealer's 17 or two 17's and dealer getting 18 rather than hitting in both situations as in 6 deck basic strategy instead? I have been searching the internet without success. Thank you for your help.
Wanda Wilcox: “I can’t stand people. I hate them.” Chinaski: “Oh, yeah?” Wanda: “You hate them?” Chinaski: “No, but I seem to feel better when they’re not around.” Barfly, starring Mickey Rourke
RS
RS
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8626
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
December 13th, 2014 at 9:15:51 AM permalink
Quote: Wino

My question relates to the Basic Strategy chart for double deck where it says to split 6s against dealer's 7 if double after split is allowed otherwise hit. And in the same way to split 7s against dealer's 8. Does card composition make so much of a difference in double deck and if so how/reasoning? Would the computer not worry about player getting two 16s and losing against dealer's 17 or two 17's and dealer getting 18 rather than hitting in both situations as in 6 deck basic strategy instead? I have been searching the internet without success. Thank you for your help.



Perhaps I'm wrong. But my intuition:

66v7: Because your hand is composed of two 6's...it is now that much harder to get another 6, thus making 18, which should be a winning hand against a 7. In multi-deck, you have a much better chance at getting another 6, for 18, for a winning hand.

77v8: Same thing, another 7 gets you to 21, which is an awesome hand.

You could get dealt a T on both of your splits, which would suck. But you could also get dealt a 3-5 (4,5 for 66v7, or 3v4 for 77v8) which would mean you'd double down, since you'd have 10 or 11 vs 7 or 8.


Ultimately, I've come conclude: Trust the math & The math is right.

If you're able to simulate the situation, go ahead.



I've always wondered about certain hands, but as of yet, I have never found a fault in a proper strategy (ie: their math was wrong) from a recognized source. Although, it can be useful and nice to know the math behind it.


Some plays are borderline and really don't make a difference, while others have a significant difference. The stupid rarities, like splitting 99v7 or 99vA (at a true 2 or maybe 3?) or doubling 10vT or 10vA (true 4?) occur so infrequently and have such little value.....it doesn't matter what you do! Other hands, like insurance.....those have a big impact on your expected win/loss.
Wino
Wino
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 177
Joined: Dec 13, 2014
December 13th, 2014 at 9:33:44 AM permalink
Thank you RS. That helps a lot.
Wanda Wilcox: “I can’t stand people. I hate them.” Chinaski: “Oh, yeah?” Wanda: “You hate them?” Chinaski: “No, but I seem to feel better when they’re not around.” Barfly, starring Mickey Rourke
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
  • Threads: 135
  • Posts: 2178
Joined: Dec 8, 2013
December 13th, 2014 at 10:22:17 AM permalink
Quote: Wino

My question relates to the Basic Strategy chart for double deck where it says to split 6s against dealer's 7 if double after split is allowed otherwise hit. And in the same way to split 7s against dealer's 8. Does card composition make so much of a difference in double deck and if so how/reasoning? Would the computer not worry about player getting two 16s and losing against dealer's 17 or two 17's and dealer getting 18 rather than hitting in both situations as in 6 deck basic strategy instead? I have been searching the internet without success. Thank you for your help.



To clarify, you would split in DD and SD. Rmemeber each 7 is .3 in count. This makes more difference in 2 or less decks than more decks. Same for 6,6. The TC is higher in SD & DD than 4-8 D; so when you split you're even more likely to double down.
Wino
Wino
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 177
Joined: Dec 13, 2014
December 14th, 2014 at 7:18:53 AM permalink
Nice. Thanks Greasyjohn for helping me see that. Regards.
Wanda Wilcox: “I can’t stand people. I hate them.” Chinaski: “Oh, yeah?” Wanda: “You hate them?” Chinaski: “No, but I seem to feel better when they’re not around.” Barfly, starring Mickey Rourke
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 5542
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
December 14th, 2014 at 9:46:56 AM permalink
Quote: RS

my intuition:

66v7: Because your hand is composed of two 6's...it is now that much harder to get another 6, thus making 18, which should be a winning hand against a 7. In multi-deck, you have a much better chance at getting another 6, for 18, for a winning hand.



My intuition says otherwise.

You're looking to draw a (A, 2), 3, 4, or 5 and double. (A & 2 in parenthesis, because that's not really BS, but ... well, I see quite a few gambler types do it.) None of these draws are particularly helpful to the 12. The ability to double on a (9 or) 10 or 11 vs 7 makes it worthwhile to split.

If you do draw a 6, you resplit. (At this point, you've used at least 3/8ths of the 6's, and the second resplit is increasingly unlikely.)

Since the dealer is showing a 7, you're somewhat less likely to draw a 7 for 19 up front.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Wino
Wino
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 177
Joined: Dec 13, 2014
December 15th, 2014 at 8:50:48 AM permalink
Dieter. Thank you for the explanation. Very much appreciated.
Wanda Wilcox: “I can’t stand people. I hate them.” Chinaski: “Oh, yeah?” Wanda: “You hate them?” Chinaski: “No, but I seem to feel better when they’re not around.” Barfly, starring Mickey Rourke
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
  • Threads: 135
  • Posts: 2178
Joined: Dec 8, 2013
December 18th, 2014 at 12:44:07 AM permalink
A little more information about 7,7. In SD you stand vs dealer 10 up. Part of the reason why is because drawing to a powerful hand by getting another 7 is lessened (only 2 more in the deck). In DD you stand when the TC is +4 in this same scenario. Same reasoning. So if 7,7 is weaker in 1 or 2 decks than it is in 6 or 8 decks you're more likely to split. Splitting 7,7 vs dealer 8 if DAS is a very close play. On the face of it you would think the deck is neutral. But remember that each 7 is + .3 so the count is +.6. Splitting 7,7 vs 8 if the TC is +1 or greater is a rough approximation. And it is BS when 7,7 vs 8 in SD & DD if DAS.
Wino
Wino
  • Threads: 45
  • Posts: 177
Joined: Dec 13, 2014
December 18th, 2014 at 7:29:37 AM permalink
Interesting. Thanks again Greasyjohn.
Wanda Wilcox: “I can’t stand people. I hate them.” Chinaski: “Oh, yeah?” Wanda: “You hate them?” Chinaski: “No, but I seem to feel better when they’re not around.” Barfly, starring Mickey Rourke
  • Jump to: