video blackjack
I am interested in up to date information regarding the above and how casinos operate what you would expect to be an electronic version of the table game. To make a long story short I am a successful professional sports gambler with a degree in electrical engineering and computer science along with 20 years of developing a core of businesses. I had the knowledge and time to develop excellent methods for sports which have worked extremely well. Recently I became interested in blackjack at first for some fun than more so due to clearly limitless outcomes with some skill obviating the need for waiting game outcomes etc which is limiting. I thrashed through about 30k hands of demo blackjack, applied my methods and set out to test via the video version. That worked fine at low bet levels over the course of 3 to 4 weeks UNFORTUNATELY when I raised my stake levels rather amazing results appeared. In essence when I guttled around at $1-10 it was normalish yet tough at times however when I hit it with 30-75 the dealer BJ's were instant and inordinately frequent with my hands unplayable. The trend was neither subtle or short basically normal normal - stake increased and an immediate 6 straight losses continually. Having read that the game by law should behave as a table up until today I put it down to variation however a session I had all day today was to the point of laughable. I finally did what I had intended to days earlier to make sure that being to speak to the Games/slots manager to explain what was happening and what was the reason. He informed me that these machines were set no different to slots! I then went to the casino next door and enquired about theirs only to be met by waffling and basically a refusal to confirm or deny lol Im stunned really are the casinos not content with running a profitable table game that they want to rig the video version?? I would be grateful for any feedback and if someone could advise me on the regulatory position
many thanks
what were the rules of the game u were playing? How many hamds did u play? Is there some reason why i should take you into special consideratiion because u got your ass kicked in such a small sample space?Quote: bjmongooseHi
I am interested in up to date information regarding the above and how casinos operate what you would expect to be an electronic version of the table game. To make a long story short I am a successful professional sports gambler with a degree in electrical engineering and computer science along with 20 years of developing a core of businesses. I had the knowledge and time to develop excellent methods for sports which have worked extremely well. Recently I became interested in blackjack at first for some fun than more so due to clearly limitless outcomes with some skill obviating the need for waiting game outcomes etc which is limiting. I thrashed through about 30k hands of demo blackjack, applied my methods and set out to test via the video version. That worked fine at low bet levels over the course of 3 to 4 weeks UNFORTUNATELY when I raised my stake levels rather amazing results appeared. In essence when I guttled around at $1-10 it was normalish yet tough at times however when I hit it with 30-75 the dealer BJ's were instant and inordinately frequent with my hands unplayable. The trend was neither subtle or short basically normal normal - stake increased and an immediate 6 straight losses continually. Having read that the game by law should behave as a table up until today I put it down to variation however a session I had all day today was to the point of laughable. I finally did what I had intended to days earlier to make sure that being to speak to the Games/slots manager to explain what was happening and what was the reason. He informed me that these machines were set no different to slots! I then went to the casino next door and enquired about theirs only to be met by waffling and basically a refusal to confirm or deny lol Im stunned really are the casinos not content with running a profitable table game that they want to rig the video version?? I would be grateful for any feedback and if someone could advise me on the regulatory position
many thanks
Quote: bjmongooseHi
I am interested in up to date information regarding the above and how casinos operate what you would expect to be an electronic version of the table game. To make a long story short I am a successful professional sports gambler with a degree in electrical engineering and computer science along with 20 years of developing a core of businesses. I had the knowledge and time to develop excellent methods for sports which have worked extremely well. Recently I became interested in blackjack at first for some fun than more so due to clearly limitless outcomes with some skill obviating the need for waiting game outcomes etc which is limiting. I thrashed through about 30k hands of demo blackjack, applied my methods and set out to test via the video version. That worked fine at low bet levels over the course of 3 to 4 weeks UNFORTUNATELY when I raised my stake levels rather amazing results appeared. In essence when I guttled around at $1-10 it was normalish yet tough at times however when I hit it with 30-75 the dealer BJ's were instant and inordinately frequent with my hands unplayable. The trend was neither subtle or short basically normal normal - stake increased and an immediate 6 straight losses continually. Having read that the game by law should behave as a table up until today I put it down to variation however a session I had all day today was to the point of laughable. I finally did what I had intended to days earlier to make sure that being to speak to the Games/slots manager to explain what was happening and what was the reason. He informed me that these machines were set no different to slots! I then went to the casino next door and enquired about theirs only to be met by waffling and basically a refusal to confirm or deny lol Im stunned really are the casinos not content with running a profitable table game that they want to rig the video version?? I would be grateful for any feedback and if someone could advise me on the regulatory position
many thanks
bjmongoose,
Welcome to the forum. Your initial post was so dense it was very hard to read; but I thought you had a good question, so I edited the paragraphing a bit below to make it easier for the experts to advise you. The basic question is in bold for readers.
Quote:"I am interested in up to date information regarding (video blackjack) and how casinos operate what you would expect to be an electronic version of the table game.
To make a long story short I am a successful professional sports gambler with a degree in electrical engineering and computer science along with 20 years of developing a core of businesses. I had the knowledge and time to develop excellent methods for sports which have worked extremely well.
Recently I became interested in blackjack at first for some fun than more so due to clearly limitless outcomes with some skill obviating the need for waiting game outcomes etc which is limiting. I thrashed through about 30k hands of demo blackjack, applied my methods and set out to test via the video version. That worked fine at low bet levels over the course of 3 to 4 weeks
UNFORTUNATELY when I raised my stake levels rather amazing results appeared. In essence when I guttled around at $1-10 it was normalish yet tough at times however when I hit it with 30-75 the dealer BJ's were instant and inordinately frequent with my hands unplayable. The trend was neither subtle or short basically normal normal - stake increased and an immediate 6 straight losses continually.
Having read that the game by law should behave as a table up until today I put it down to variation however a session I had all day today was to the point of laughable. I finally did what I had intended to days earlier to make sure that being to speak to the Games/slots manager to explain what was happening and what was the reason. He informed me that these machines were set no different to slots! I then went to the casino next door and enquired about theirs only to be met by waffling and basically a refusal to confirm or deny lol
Im stunned really are the casinos not content with running a profitable table game that they want to rig the video version?? I would be grateful for any feedback and if someone could advise me on the regulatory position"
Back to me: I am not an expert. However, I do not believe that an electronic version of a game MUST BY LAW have the same house edge as a live table game. I'm pretty sure they can make a video game look like anything they want, and as long as it pays within the parameters of what they're licensed to offer, you have no assurances otherwise. I could be wrong.
Your question is complicated by there being different classes of gaming, different laws by jurisdiction about what can be offered, the format it's offered in, and how it's represented by statements on the glass, within the instructions, all kinds of things. Chances are the experts would have to know what jurisdiction you were playing in, the exact name of the game, and screen shots of the help menus and front screens to give you an accurate answer.
For example, there are Class II slots which are actually playing bingo with the other slot players in the room, but look exactly like Vegas slots. Florida and California tribes can only offer craps using cards (not dice), and some only electronic, not live roulette. Video poker has different paytables even on the same machine sometimes, and many times among identical-appearing machines in a row. Class II video poker slots are required to meet a certain paytable, so some of them disregard your bad play (via a Genie or something) that fixes your discard with a better one, then gives you the win you were supposed to have.
There are lots of other things they can do, but almost all of them are based on what they can get away with under state, tribal, or other rules established for them in their particular jurisdiction.
clearly if you feel bullish then head in and give it a whirl yourself
Many thanks for the response. I am in Laughlin Nevada and I can confirm the exact machine type I was on in the morning. I can advise now that the other casino I checked with referred specifically to a Shufflemaster and staff who were called to answer my info request would not answer directly but in fact were trying to say that the machine would "payout to a preset level" and that they did not have access to it. Im not worried or complaining in the slightest about losing money only that the play was so severely out of kilter that I nearly called over staff to watch.
my comments regarding video BJ legalities I actually read on this forum via the Wizard on at least 2 different posts hence my understanding. I can look out those threads again if it helps
Record what you are saying. Post it up. Until then, it's all just your word. Thats good enough for your mom and wife but not total strangers. Even if your right(and you could be) we still need 100% reliable evidence.
As an example of todays play within the first 50 hands I experienced a losing of 10 straight hands immediately after raising my stake to $5 per hand (from 1 to 5). After the 6th loss I called over the Gaming Manager who watched the the next 4 hands - I increased to 15 for two hands then 30 for the last two - lose. I showed him my daily log which reflected a split as follows:
Wins 15
losses 30
push 5
Losing streaks of 5 & 10 directly related to stake increases
I then dropped back down and reeled off 4 wins. He said he couldn't more and I would need to contact the Gaming Commission
thanks
Now were talking(got to respect a guy willing to not just yapp, but actually get evidence), I cannot wait. This thread should pick up a lot of traction, If there's any merit to what you're saying .Quote: bjmongooseI will video the machines in action this weekend.
Can you please reference your plans, Prior to the video. time and length of time/hands you will be playing. This will help make sure your not accused of cherry picking.
goose stop the double posting.
As babs mentioned earlier, this is not true everywhere. In my home state of WA they have only the Class II slots or "video lottery terminals" she mentioned. They generally do not offer video BJ or poker games because it would be obvious they are not operating similarly to what one would expect when dealing real cards.
The other effect is deposit amount, exact play from this morning.
mc1 - deposit $5 - win first hand & stopped (played stake $1)
mc2 - deposit $3 - lose first win second & stopped
mc3 - deposit $1000
first hand push
lose next three hands win fourth, the first 20 hands finish 5 wins 12 losses 3 push down $7 1 losing streak of 5
through 41 hands 14 – 22 – 5 down -11
At hand 41 I had lost just lost 3 pushed and won hand 41 and thought perfect time to test my bet increase theory, here are the results:
stake bet $5 – 6 straight losses
stake $15 – 2 further losses
stake $30 – 2 further losses
I cant recall off the top of my head but I know 8 straight is 1 : 173 hands hence a 10 must be rather higher. The kicker to me is being able to “call it” by increasing the bet I mean its truly laughable and as I said I actually had both managers in actual attendance for the last 4 losses!!!
by hand 52 the record is 15 – 32 – 5
This isnt isolated, Ive just been down at the Pioneer and the machines run EXACTLY the same way. It is not remotely blackjack by any stretch unless you stick to playing the absolute minimums and work hard using small increments to finish even or 1 unit ahead. That is possible, either walk if first hit or be prepared to work it hard and finish even. If there is any hint of a more major increase the result will be instantly push – dealer blackjack – unplayable hands, its so predictable its like clockwork.
After playing 6 machines I jumped on a table with myself & dealer only, playing 6 decks, played probably 20 hands and walked away with $90 enjoying normal card results lol It was very refreshing. Im more than happy to meet anyone in Laughlin if they would like to experience this firsthand, its a shame really I can only assume they are trying to drive anyone who wants to play with heavier money to the actual tables??
If anyone wants to suggest exactly what I play and for how long and how much I have no problem doing that and in fact as well as the video I am going to have some witnesses too
thanks again
I have tried searching for Nevada video BJ regulations but haven't uncovered it, can anyone answer this?
Ive just read this notice which would appear to me to prevent or prohibit card sequences being adjusted/predetermined however there is no way in hell that this is even remotely the case. I am assuming that these casinos must have some designation for these devices that is allowing them to somehow circuit around this??
For under $40 you can buy a hidden video pen that is good quality thay fits intonyour shirt pocket. If someone notable like the Wizard comes to the conclusion something Strange is going on send me the pen and ill send you the money for the spy pen.
to many red flags, though you never know!
Quote: bjmongooseII then dropped back down and reeled off 4 wins. He said he couldn't more and I would need to contact the Gaming Commission
thanks
If the manager suspects something HE should be calling Gaming himself.
Like managment has any clue how anything should work.Quote: thecesspitIf the manager suspects something HE should be calling Gaming himself.
way that that was normal behavior. He just gawked at the machine and advised re gaming. What I took from it to be honest was him really saying that
he couldn't do anymore at his paygrade and wasn't or wouldn't get support from above. Ive seen that in business plenty of times
The more I think about it the casino manager was saying I spoke to the slots/machine manager or whatever and he said this is how it works when he clearly is saying its not. Think I will force the issue tomorrow and say fair enough if you wont review the log and comment on the detail to me I will phone Gaming on the spot with my nice new video
he probably doesnt suspect anything, he probably thinks it's absurd and thinks he hears different variations of the same story. So, why are you still playing this machine if you're so sure it's rigged?Quote: thecesspitIf the manager suspects something HE should be calling Gaming himself.
why? because I enjoy the challenge of it and I don't need the money. Once again if you read the initial post I state that I started testing the video machines
this Monday
playing these versions and the results are ludicrous
I don't needs lessons or advice on math & statistics, I have a degree in electrical engineering and physics, if you aren't interested in commenting normally on the thread by all means move on
cheers
with RNG there is or should I say should be randomness hence no counting difference hence how much more do the casinos need?? If the tables are that bad close them down. Should anyone expect that over and above all that they are set to hit you as well? They told me they are set to a yield to which I said fair enough but why the sensitivity to stake increases??? crickets and waffling heard thereafter
I assume this must be happening with the vid poker and Ive noticed a number of fresh posts in that regard
My current thoughts? None of these people actually realize how the machines work and none of their customers complain about it because they don't know better. What pisses me off? As I left this casino a guy who I have seen off and on - 75-80 years old? - was sitting playing a shufflemaster because he is to old to handle the live tables. He wont realize that his results are completely skewed and he is being systematically robbed by the casino, this is exactly the reason this needs to be stopped
Quote: bjmongooseI went to another casino today with exactly the same results
OK, I've now gone from agnostic to full blown doubter. It's not a casino thing but a Shufflemaster thing? Really?
have you tried them?
be prepared for a shock, I can tell you in advance that it will be a 1w 4 loss result AT BEST, if you increase during your first 5 bets you will be smashed for 6 to 7 straight losses as I was this morning
after losing 5-7 then drop to $1 and be ready for 4 to 5 straight wins via perfect hands and BJ's - enjoy!
Quote: bjmongooseits across ALL video machines regardless
have you tried them?
I've tried them.
Somehow I thought you were talking about a single crooked casino, which to me is at least within the realm of possibility.
That all video machines are crooked? Well, if you can prove it, we will be seeing you on TV, a huge celebrity, the guy who busted the biggest, most monumental, approaching trillion dollar, big guy screwing the little guy scam of all time.
If you are for real, don't you know we hear crap like this all the time? Respectfully, you are going to need to put up or shut up now. Come up with the verifiable, non-anecdotal proof or just go away.
I will have the feedback from that girl by Monday/Tuesday however if you disbelieve Skype me right now as Im at a casino and you can see it live for yourself so lets see if you have the balls
The fact that your listening to anything managment has to say, and then repeating it, as if it has any merit, really damages your credibility. 99% of casino employee's know 10x less than the most members on this forum.Quote: bjmongoosefull update later however I went to another casino today with exactly the same results, called over all the staff who mirrored the response of the others HOWEVER this time the member of staff who I asked to bring over management called me over after I finished my discussion which again ended with pure waffle and "call Gaming Commission", SHE said she knew exactly what I was talking about because she was a very good BJ player but had given up video BJ due to the strange results when betting higher amounts!!!! We spoke for quite a while but to make a long story short she advised that she would speak with the casino CEO and find out what was going on. Im going to meet back up with her and see what she has to say. She was so relieved to hear what I had to say lol In summary I advised that casino that I could without exception tell them in advance exactly what hands would be dealt according to my bet levels.
My current thoughts? None of these people actually realize how the machines work and none of their customers complain about it because they don't know better. What pisses me off? As I left this casino a guy who I have seen off and on - 75-80 years old? - was sitting playing a shufflemaster because he is to old to handle the live tables. He wont realize that his results are completely skewed and he is being systematically robbed by the casino, this is exactly the reason this needs to be stopped
I can guarantee you gaming isn't going to do anything. They might come take a report and send you a letter in a few months explaining everything is normal.
Your not the first person to believe machines are gaffed and there may or may not be something to it.
At this point we have nothing other than what reads like fictional conspiracy.
Where is that Video you promised?
2) have you ever played these machines?
If you don't have any experience than what credibility do you have??? Im here to post and protect people I couldn't care less what you think
If you are so knowledgeable and connected with BJ surely you must have contacts in Vegas who test for you? If you don't YOU are just another gambling wannebee who talks a lot of shit but doesn't make a living from it or cant - am I right?? Im in Nevada and ready to meet so why don't YOU shut up and take the sanctimony elsewhere
I will book you in at any hotel in Laughlin
I have a full time suite at the Laughlin River Lodge in Laughlin
If you have the intellect and experience to thoughtfully comment/assist on this situation Skype me on RckDrsy
Do NOT contact me if you ARE NOT a professional gambler in sports/cards/etc, I do not need to hear from amateurs in any capacity
If you make sense on our call I will organize a room for you and you can come visit and see for yourself at my expense
If that isn't a money where your mouth is offer than you don't know what one is
Quote: bjmongooseIf ANYONE can tell me they have played these machines with normalish results Im all ears, nobody even remotely yet.
Are you talking about the Shufflemaster multi-player machines with the virtual on-screen dealer?
this thing?...http://www.slot-machine-resource.com/images/tablemaster.JPG
