Hi/Lo Count with Ace/Five cards @ -2-5

Just testing some alterations to the Hi/Lo count. Considering I am far from being equal to the intelligence of the people who designed card counting strategies, I yet decided to play around with card counting strategies in my spare time.

In books and articles I have read the mention of the A and 5 card keep introducing themselves as important factors when counting cards. The Ace benefits the player with blackjacks and other beneficial combos without busting; the 5 card hurts the player (at low counts?) by helping the dealer make their hands without busting.

So I have been testing an altered Hi/Lo count:

Cards 2,3,4,6 = +1

Cards 7,8,9 = 0

Cards 10, J, Q, K = -1

Card 5 = +2

Card A = -2

While playing I've noticed spikes of higher/lower counts greater than what I am accustomed to when playing normal Hi/Lo. Like normal Hi/Lo this "spike" happens not too often -- the golden shoe when high, or the walk-away shoe when very low.

But when this positive spike occurs, as if it is an accelerated, unusual "ramp-up", I can assume more lows cards, especially 5's have come into play. In addition, more Ace's are yet in the shoe. Seemingly a great opportunity depending on true count. Almost as if a side count of Aces/fives have been implemented.

Anyhow, its difficult to say how this alternative count actually performs without simulation, but so far I've noticed when the count ramps up and I bet big I win more. Could be luck of the cards, coincidence, or whatever. Any incite or comments would be appreciated.

Sorry, heading reads wrong, should be @-2Ace, +2five

Quote: Stocks72

Just testing some alterations to the Hi/Lo count. Considering I am far from being equal to the intelligence of the people who designed card counting strategies, I yet decided to play around with card counting strategies in my spare time.

In books and articles I have read the mention of the A and 5 card keep introducing themselves as important factors when counting cards. The Ace benefits the player with blackjacks and other beneficial combos without busting; the 5 card hurts the player (at low counts?) by helping the dealer make their hands without busting.

So I have been testing an altered Hi/Lo count:

Cards 2,3,4,6 = +1

Cards 7,8,9 = 0

Card 5 = +2

Card A = -2

While playing I've noticed spikes of higher/lower counts greater than what I am accustomed to when playing normal Hi/Lo. Like normal Hi/Lo this "spike" happens not too often -- the golden shoe when high, or the walk-away shoe when very low.

But when this positive spike occurs, as if it is an accelerated, unusual "ramp-up", I can assume more lows cards, especially 5's have come into play. In addition, more Ace's are yet in the shoe. Seemingly a great opportunity depending on true count. Almost as if a side count of Aces/fives have been implemented.

Anyhow, its difficult to say how this alternative count actually performs without simulation, but so far I've noticed when the count ramps up and I bet big I win more. Could be luck of the cards, coincidence, or whatever. Any incite or comments would be appreciated.

Sorry, heading reads wrong, should be @-2Ace, +2five

why not just do hi/lo with Ace side count?

Quote: Stocks72

Just testing some alterations to the Hi/Lo count. Considering I am far from being equal to the intelligence of the people who designed card counting strategies, I yet decided to play around with card counting strategies in my spare time.

In books and articles I have read the mention of the A and 5 card keep introducing themselves as important factors when counting cards. The Ace benefits the player with blackjacks and other beneficial combos without busting; the 5 card hurts the player (at low counts?) by helping the dealer make their hands without busting.

So I have been testing an altered Hi/Lo count:

Cards 2,3,4,6 = +1

Cards 7,8,9 = 0

Card 5 = +2

Card A = -2

While playing I've noticed spikes of higher/lower counts greater than what I am accustomed to when playing normal Hi/Lo. Like normal Hi/Lo this "spike" happens not too often -- the golden shoe when high, or the walk-away shoe when very low.

But when this positive spike occurs, as if it is an accelerated, unusual "ramp-up", I can assume more lows cards, especially 5's have come into play. In addition, more Ace's are yet in the shoe. Seemingly a great opportunity depending on true count. Almost as if a side count of Aces/fives have been implemented.

Anyhow, its difficult to say how this alternative count actually performs without simulation, but so far I've noticed when the count ramps up and I bet big I win more. Could be luck of the cards, coincidence, or whatever. Any incite or comments would be appreciated.

Sorry, heading reads wrong, should be @-2Ace, +2five

Well, you have a balanced count there but what about the 10s?

I forgot to list the tens in my OP.

10 value cards = -1


As for a side count, Id rather perform one count. That's why I bumped the Aces to -2.

So I've actually done this and it worked pretty well. Not enough experience to say whether it was just lucky, though. I remember one particular situation where many 5s but not many As had showed up, about two decks into a 6-deck game, after which I was betting at least double what I should have been if counting purely according to Hi-Lo. I think this sort of flexibility and "situational awareness" can be hugely beneficial, if a little risky, over strict perfect counting Hi-Lo play.

I would consider using A/5 as a blackjack marker, and hi/lo as a count. When BOTH are favorable split-Aces, Blackjack, and soft double are good bets. Marginal near zero counts not so. I would also NOT raise on a loss or a push especially in the weak but favorable conditions.

I purchased a simulation software program yesterday. I'm currently running this count for 10000 sims @ 50 hands each. It includes bet ramp, indexes, running count and true count, blackjack rules, players (2 for now), # of decks and penetration, and a few other things.

I am somewhat confused about the "50 hands each". I can change it down to one or up to 1,000,000+. Anyone want to explain please do.

I will run same sim with standard HI/LO after it is done to compare.

Program is called Blackjack Simulator and Trainer for $19.95.

Quote: Stocks72

I purchased a simulation software program yesterday. I'm currently running this count for 10000 sims @ 50 hands each. It includes bet ramp, indexes, running count and true count, blackjack rules, players (2 for now), # of decks and penetration, and a few other things.

I am somewhat confused about the "50 hands each". I can change it down to one or up to 1,000,000+. Anyone want to explain please do.

I will run same sim with standard HI/LO after it is done to compare.

Program is called Blackjack Simulator and Trainer for $19.95.

What are you confused about on the 50 hands each? You can change it to any amount that you want. I would set it for whatever your average time at the table is. If you normally play for 2 hours at a time then I would change it to maybe 120 hands. If you want a truer sim over the "long run" then I would set it for 100k or more.

I am doing 4000 simulations@500 hands.

So far both hi/lo and my alternate count equal results and both are negative. Almost break even in the end.

$15 min-$350max
using hi/lo indexes
hit soft 17
no surrender
8 deck with 75% pen
blackjack pays 3/2
das
split up to 4 hands
split aces with no more hits

crappy rules but when I bump up min bet to $25 for no hit soft 17 I get similar results. Slightly better.

I may try varying betting ramp.

Quote: Stocks72

I am doing 4000 simulations@500 hands.

So far both hi/lo and my alternate count equal results and both are negative. Almost break even in the end.

$15 min-$350max
using hi/lo indexes
hit soft 17
no surrender
8 deck with 75% pen
blackjack pays 3/2
das
split up to 4 hands
split aces with no more hits

crappy rules but when I bump up min bet to $25 for no hit soft 17 I get similar results. Slightly better.

I may try varying betting ramp.

you shouldn't mess with the rules. Put in the rules for the game that you will play.

I play $15 table (hit 17); $25 table (stand 17) at my local casino.

So far my alternate count performs a little better. I changed the betting ramp/true count slightly (same for both simulations of hi/lo and alternate count). Now both result with positive outcome after 2000 simulations @ 2000 hands. Takes about 20 minutes for process to configure.

After 4,000,000 hands each at $15 table rules:

Alternate count gain 53% (against house)
Hilo gains 50.7%

Still running sims after more tweaks.

Time to write a book. Don't give it a title yet. Make it a contest. Let us submit our suggestions and you mention the winner in the foreword.

Quote: Stocks72

Just testing some alterations to the Hi/Lo count. Considering I am far from being equal to the intelligence of the people who designed card counting strategies, I yet decided to play around with card counting strategies in my spare time.

In books and articles I have read the mention of the A and 5 card keep introducing themselves as important factors when counting cards. The Ace benefits the player with blackjacks and other beneficial combos without busting; the 5 card hurts the player (at low counts?) by helping the dealer make their hands without busting.

So I have been testing an altered Hi/Lo count:

Cards 2,3,4,6 = +1

Cards 7,8,9 = 0

Cards 10, J, Q, K = -1

Card 5 = +2

Card A = -2

While playing I've noticed spikes of higher/lower counts greater than what I am accustomed to when playing normal Hi/Lo. Like normal Hi/Lo this "spike" happens not too often -- the golden shoe when high, or the walk-away shoe when very low.

But when this positive spike occurs, as if it is an accelerated, unusual "ramp-up", I can assume more lows cards, especially 5's have come into play. In addition, more Ace's are yet in the shoe. Seemingly a great opportunity depending on true count. Almost as if a side count of Aces/fives have been implemented.

Anyhow, its difficult to say how this alternative count actually performs without simulation, but so far I've noticed when the count ramps up and I bet big I win more. Could be luck of the cards, coincidence, or whatever. Any incite or comments would be appreciated.

Sorry, heading reads wrong, should be @-2Ace, +2five

I like the way you think. Using hi-lo as a template is exactly how I created my own custom count. If you enjoy blackjack, and are tenacious and disciplined, you certainly could be an excellent player. You are certainly showing the initiative. Don't sell yourself short on intelligence, you're probably no less smart than the average counter. The ones who unmistakably think they are geniuses make me blah in my mouth...the few who actually are, I imagine act more normal.

To comment on your count, I think you're going in the wrong the direction. True, the 5 is the worst card and the Ace the best. But their hi-lo value is not so far off, in relation to the other cards, to double the value. If you were to take a closer look at the effect of removal (EOR), you'd realize the 7 and the 2 are the most inaccurately valued cards in the count. The 2 is valued too high (it's no where near a 5), and the 7 too low (it's almost the same as a 2). If you only wanted to mess with the Ace and 5, then adding +/- 1/2 (rather than a full point) would slightly strengthen your count if you are not highly dependent on strategy deviations. As it stands, the way you want to alter your count weakens it compared to hi-lo.

If it is of any concern to you, what I did was master hi-lo and a full range of playing indices. Then I fiddled with the values of the 2 and 7 to strengthen the count's accuracy. You should not simply double the value of the Ace and 5.