Hacienda removes all table games.
The best game now follows these rules:
2 decks
Stand of soft 17
Double after split allowed
Re-splitting aces allowed
Surrender not allowed
Lots of MGM properties have such rules at mid to high-limit. So does the M.
If anybody is looking to take the "best blackjack" game award, now would be a good time to do so.
NEVER SMARTEN UP A CHUMP
Quote: BuzzardOn tablet can not link but I believe dotty just bought the Hacienda ???
They did. Which basically explains everything. They stripped the good video poker out of the place too.
Quote: BuzzardGuess this answers the often offered suggestion of a casino offer liberal rules to attract players.
NEVER SMARTEN UP A CHUMP
Riviera tried this angle. It had 3-2 single deck D1011 (which actually isn't as great as it sounds), single zero roulette and 1000x times craps. It all went away after about 6 months because they weren't attracting play with it.
Quote: RSThe Riviera is also a total dump. And they have like 50c minimum BJ or something. Was gonna play there but got too scared to pull out $$$.
I almost ate the buffet there when the casino was dead on a Tuesday? night. I panicked and changed my mind when it looked like only one person was eating there. The buffet is now closed.
Quote: tringlomaneI almost ate the buffet there when the casino was dead on a Tuesday? night. I panicked and changed my mind when it looked like only one person was eating there. The buffet is now closed.
That's funny as hell.
Quote: WizardThe Hacienda, formerly home of the most liberal blackjack game in the greater Vegas area, with a house edge of 0.127%, has removed all table games.
The best game now follows these rules:
2 decks
Stand of soft 17
Double after split allowed
Re-splitting aces allowed
Surrender not allowed
Lots of MGM properties have such rules at mid to high-limit. So does the M.
If anybody is looking to take the "best blackjack" game award, now would be a good time to do so.
The MGM games do not allow re-splitting of aces. I am not sure about the M.
And, wouldn't the El Cortez single-deck be better than this?
Quote: PokeraddictRiviera tried this angle. It had 3-2 single deck D1011 (which actually isn't as great as it sounds), single zero roulette and 1000x times craps. It all went away after about 6 months because they weren't attracting play with it.
Their single-deck game was not that good. The standard Strip six-deck S17 rules are better. They still had the lousy odds on the prop bets in craps. Roulette was not European (lose half on even money bets on a zero). They asked me to endorse them as the best odds in Vegas and I refused.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThe MGM games do not allow re-splitting of aces. I am not sure about the M.
I think you're right and just updated my survey. However, I think the M still allows re-splitting of aces in the game in question. For that reason, I now proclaim the M to have the single best blackjack game in Vegas. The house edge is 0.20% with basic strategy and a cut card. 0.12% the first hand after a shuffle with perfect composition-dependent strategy.
Quote:And, wouldn't the El Cortez single-deck be better than this?
The basic strategy house is 0.30% in the El Cortez single-deck game. Players generally put too much emphasis on the number of decks.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI still prefer the Kewadin Casino 6 deck game here. 3:2, S17, DOA, DAS, LS, double on split aces, $3 minimums.
I believe that's the best game I've ever personally played. I just wish it wasn't at a casino (casinos) 5 hours from nowhere.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceQuote: WizardThe Hacienda, formerly home of the most liberal blackjack game in the greater Vegas area, with a house edge of 0.127%, has removed all table games.
The best game now follows these rules:
2 decks
Stand of soft 17
Double after split allowed
Re-splitting aces allowed
Surrender not allowed
Lots of MGM properties have such rules at mid to high-limit. So does the M.
If anybody is looking to take the "best blackjack" game award, now would be a good time to do so.
The MGM games do not allow re-splitting of aces. I am not sure about the M.
And, wouldn't the El Cortez single-deck be better than this?
Heard of them, never been there. Good for them. Do whatever their business model calls for. If people are gonna enjoy their "type of business" god bless them.
Cbjn says the El Cortex game is 0.18 .Why is your number different than Wong's?Quote: WizardI think you're right and just updated my survey. However, I think the M still allows re-splitting of aces in the game in question. For that reason, I now proclaim the M to have the single best blackjack game in Vegas. The house edge is 0.20% with basic strategy and a cut card. 0.12% the first hand after a shuffle with perfect composition-dependent strategy.
The basic strategy house is 0.30% in the El Cortez single-deck game. Players generally put too much emphasis on the number of decks.
Quote: HunterhillCbjn says the El Cortex game is 0.18 .Why is your number different than Wong's?
Correct me if I'm wrong (as always) but Wong's figures are based on a shuffle after every hand. My 0.30% assumes a cut card. Per my blackjack appendix 10, the cut card effect costs the player 0.11% in a single-deck game. 0.30% - 0.11% = 0.19%. Wong is at 0.18%. Since both figures are simulation based, that may explain the difference of 0.01%.
Quote: WizardThe basic strategy house is 0.30% in the El Cortez single-deck game. Players generally put too much emphasis on the number of decks.
Edit: read the Wizard's response.
They don't use a cut card in that game, so it's not really fair to ding them for the cut card effect :)
Also, composition-dependent basic strategy makes a real difference in SD. I would go with the optimal results, not the "realistic" ones.
Quote: WizardTheir single-deck game was not that good. The standard Strip six-deck S17 rules are better. They still had the lousy odds on the prop bets in craps. Roulette was not European (lose half on even money bets on a zero). They asked me to endorse them as the best odds in Vegas and I refused.
I agree with you but for a $5 grind joint they were better than anything else on the Strip.
Quote: kewljWhat about the Longhorn/Bighorn games. I don't know how to figure it, but I am under the impression that the doubling on 3 cards along with the 5-2 suited blackjack payout, brings the house edge down to almost zero. Is this not considered because the suited blackjack payout is considered a promotion and not part of the ordinary rules? Every time I have played there it has been in effect. Of course it is only good for a $5 bettor, which I am not. lol
The "Horn" games are based on six decks and H17. The rule about doubling on any number of cards gets us to 0.48% only. There is a $5 bonus for a blackjack in diamonds, with a bet of at least $5. Since that bonus isn't based on the bet amount, I ignore that rule. However, for a $5 player, it would get the house edge down to 0.18%.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceRE: El Cortez
They don't use a cut card in that game, so it's not really fair to ding them for the cut card effect :)
How do the dealers know when to shuffle?
Whenever the count is negative, you can be sure they will deal out one more round. And when the count is high, they will shuffle.
If anyone has difficulty understanding the "cut card effect", you should play the single-deck game at El Co.
Quote: IbeatyouracesTypically $50+, sometimes $25.
At MGM casinos, I have never seen it at $25 (and I am there a lot). I have seen it at $50 only once, at NYNY. It is usually $100 or $200, sometimes more.
Note that I am talking about the double-deck game. They also have a 6-deck game with slightly better rules (surrender is allowed) but the change to 6 decks more than makes up for the surrender rules so the house edge is still higher. It's still a good game though! The 6-deck game is often at $50 and it would not surprise me if it was sometimes at $25 too. But the DD game generally has 2x the minimum of the 6D game.
Quote: WizardHow do the dealers know when to shuffle?
I have only played it once, just to check it out (this was a long time ago). The table was full and they were dealing 2 rounds per deck. I was not playing for serious money (I would have to study up on single-deck basic strategy, not to mention the composition-dependent variations, even if I wasn't counting. I never play SD so I don't know them) There was absolutely no preferential shuffling going on; we were getting the same number of rounds each time, and I played for quite a long time.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAt MGM casinos, I have never seen it at $25 (and I am there a lot). I have seen it at $50 only once, at NYNY. It is usually $100 or $200, sometimes more.
The high limit room at Monte Carlo also has the DD game, and I have played it several times at $50 minimum.
Quote: RSThe Riviera is also a total dump. And they have like 50c minimum BJ or something. Was gonna play there but got too scared to pull out $$$.
How's that? I was there last month and I didn't think it was so bad. Colorful Craps Table, nice guys, lots of fun. One guy betting Green and took Odds on my Point of Four, which I made, tipped me $10!!! That was fun, but he pressed the PL and Odds on the Point of Ten I established on the next roll and lost, so I gave him the $10 back because I felt bad taking it at that point...
EDIT: Pursuant to PM request for clarification, by, 'Colorful,' I meant, 'Interesting.' My statement had nothing to do with the cultural/ethnic/racial backgrounds of anyone at the Craps table. Specifically, the entire table was Caucasian, except the crew, one of whom was Asian and one of the player may have been Half-Hispanic.
Quote: HowManyWhenever the count is negative, you can be sure they will deal out one more round. And when the count is high, they will shuffle.
That would be much worse than a cut card.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI believe they use the "rule of six."
I would be interested to know who is right between you and HowMany. Seems to me a lot of dealers go on feel in single-deck games with no cut card. This can be a bad thing for players. For example, with three players there are often plenty of cards after two rounds for one more round. However, in such cases it is likely because a lot of big cards went out, leaving the small ones.
Quote: WizardI would be interested to know who is right between you and HowMany. Seems to me a lot of dealers go on feel in single-deck games with no cut card. This can be a bad thing for players. For example, with three players there are often plenty of cards after two rounds for one more round. However, in such cases it is likely because a lot of big cards went out, leaving the small ones.
Well, that's the cut card effect :) I have always thought that the best way to explain the cut card effect to someone who already understands blackjack and card counting is that it's just a weak form of a preferential shuffle.
My experience was 2 rounds per deck, no matter what, at a full table. You should go check it out the next time you're downtown (assuming that you are welcome to play there?) Even if they are preferential shuffling on you, I think you can play for as little as $5/hand so it won't cost you much.
Quote: WizardI think you're right and just updated my survey. However, I think the M still allows re-splitting of aces in the game in question. For that reason, I now proclaim the M to have the single best blackjack game in Vegas.
A place owned by Penn gaming has a blackjack game with the lowest house edge in Vegas? This just does not compute. I would double check those rules if it hasn't been done recently.
I wish the M's video poker was this good; it's more in line with what you'd expect from Penn gaming for an off-strip. They do have 90+ comped beers at the bar with 9/6 ddb for dollars; it could be worse i suppose.
I think the place is very nice though. Hope to get back there soon and burn some marquee rewards.
Quote: WizardThe Hacienda, formerly home of the most liberal blackjack game in the greater Vegas area, with a house edge of 0.127%, has removed all table games.
The best game now follows these rules:
2 decks
Stand of soft 17
Double after split allowed
Re-splitting aces allowed
Surrender not allowed
Lots of MGM properties have such rules at mid to high-limit. So does the M.
If anybody is looking to take the "best blackjack" game award, now would be a good time to do so.
I used to play there often. Then, I just figured the 3/4 hour I would play there wasn't worth the gallon of gas and the one-hour round trip. The place was real relaxed, no heat, friendly dealers, great comps. You could get a 1-6 spread--they didn't seem to recognize the threat. Once I was playing their SD game and the dealer ran out of cards during the round. Had to shuffle to complete it.
The road from Boulder City to the Hacienda was a speed trap.
Quote: tringlomaneA place owned by Penn gaming has a blackjack game with the lowest house edge in Vegas? This just does not compute. I would double check those rules if it hasn't been done recently.
The CBJN reports the same rules I do. Maybe we're both out of date. I hardly ever go there.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAt MGM casinos, I have never seen it at $25 (and I am there a lot). I have seen it at $50 only once, at NYNY. It is usually $100 or $200, sometimes more.
Note that I am talking about the double-deck game. They also have a 6-deck game with slightly better rules (surrender is allowed) but the change to 6 decks more than makes up for the surrender rules so the house edge is still higher. It's still a good game though! The 6-deck game is often at $50 and it would not surprise me if it was sometimes at $25 too. But the DD game generally has 2x the minimum of the 6D game.
I will defer to Vegas locals for current conditions, but I played the DD game at the Mirage in June 2013 on a Thursday and Friday and the minimum was at $25 most of the time. I played it at MGM in January 2014 for $100 on a weekday night, but a guy at the table was grandfathered at $50.
Quote: JimRockfordI will defer to Vegas locals for current conditions, but I played the DD game at the Mirage in June 2013 on a Thursday and Friday and the minimum was at $25 most of the time. I played it at MGM in January 2014 for $100 on a weekday night, but a guy at the table was grandfathered at $50.
Maybe I'm just not playing at the right places. The places where it's been mentioned that it was $25 (Mirage and Monte Carlo) are places that I have never played since I've moved up to higher limits. (I'm not a local, but I'm in Vegas at least once a month).
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceMaybe I'm just not playing at the right places. The places where it's been mentioned that it was $25 (Mirage and Monte Carlo) are places that I have never played since I've moved up to higher limits. (I'm not a local, but I'm in Vegas at least once a month).
Aria had it at $25 the last time I was there and it's also listed as $25 in the CBJN. If you're going to find it 3 o'clock on a weekday afternoon is usually the best time to try.
Quote: IbeatyouracesThe good DD game was regularly $25 during the day a couple years ago. I tore it up on the trip with Teddy. He'll vouch for me and it.
I don't doubt you. I've just never seen it.
I tend to be there on weekends only, and perhaps not at the same casinos. I am pretty much never going to be in Vegas on a Wednesday afternoon (I live close enough that frequent weekend trips make more sense than occasional long trips)
