BJ survery, a zero percent house edge?
Too good to be true? Anyone seen this?
Quote: IbeatyouracesThey're getting as bad as Caesars.
What!?
Quote: IbeatyouracesNeed all of the playing rules. But highly doubtful for an MGM property. They're getting as bad as Caesars.
Decks 8, hit Soft 17, DAS yes, Surrender, RSA
Depends on what you consider off the wall. Early surrender will get you pretty close to 0 with Pennsylvania rules. Add in resplit aces and you'd be in the black.Quote: DeucekiesEven with all the best rules, you can't get a 0% HE in blackjack with 4+ decks without doing something off the wall, like offering more than 3:2 on a blackjack.
Quote: geoffDepends on what you consider off the wall. Early surrender will get you pretty close to 0 with Pennsylvania rules. Add in resplit aces and you'd be in the black.
Except Pa doesn't have EARLY surrender, it has late surrender. Very few places in US have early surrender.
That's why I said it depends on what you consider off the wall. In the US early surrender is rare, but it's not that rare elsewhere.Quote: kewljExcept Pa doesn't have EARLY surrender, it has late surrender. Very few places in US have early surrender.
Quote: kewljThere is a game in Henderson, standard 6 deck, low limit game that has a promotion where if your pair 20, (two 10's, 2 J's, 2 Q's 2 K's) loses to a dealer BJ or drawn 21, you win $50 on your $5 bet. The 20 has to be a pair, it cannot be a jack and queen. I have no idea what this is worth. When I first heard it I thought it must be worth something significant, but playing the game, you realize this occurs less than you think, especially with the 'pair' 20 stipulation.
If I have done the math right and with a little help from https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/2b/ it should occur about every 1 in 365.1075 hands. When this happens do you keep your original bet too?
If you don't keep your original bet, you still gain 10 units for every 365.1075 hands.
Are the rest of the rules in this game terrible? This adds a couple of percent here if you are always getting 10 to 1 when this happens. I definitely would play this game for cheap since I'm poor.
Quote: kewljThere is a game in Henderson, standard 6 deck, low limit game that has a promotion where if your pair 20, (two 10's, 2 J's, 2 Q's 2 K's) loses to a dealer BJ or drawn 21, you win $50 on your $5 bet. The 20 has to be a pair, it cannot be a jack and queen. I have no idea what this is worth. When I first heard it I thought it must be worth something significant, but playing the game, you realize this occurs less than you think, especially with the 'pair' 20 stipulation.
I play there often. It's actually 5:1 and max bet is $10. It's not only their 6 deck shoe and it's not just a promotion either. If you have a player's card, get it, you lose the $10, but you earn $50. You can only do this once a wk. This is a significant advantage for the player because this is not a side bet!
Quote: IbeatyouracesNeed all of the playing rules. But highly doubtful for an MGM property. They're getting as bad as Caesars.
MGM!? HA! You must be kidding me. MGM property high limit has the better rules on the strip
Quote: BlackjackGambitI play there often. It's actually 5:1 and max bet is $10. It's not only their 6 deck shoe and it's not just a promotion either. If you have a player's card, get the it, you lose the $10, but you earn $50. You can only do this once a day. This is a significant advantage for the player because this is not a side bet!
Ok, well then it has changed in the last 3 or 4 months. 5:1 is less than it used to be, but once per day more often than it used to be allowed. I am no longer allowed to play tables games (since January) at this location so haven't played for a while. And since there is only 1 shift per day and 2 or 3 total pit guys, there is no going back on a different shift. lol My partner still plays our machine play and we both like the diner-like café so we do still visit weekly.
Do you know an older woman named Nancy that plays almost everyday? She shows up right about the time tables open and plays for a couple hours. Don't know how late she stays. She is not an AP, just an 80% basic strategy (doesn't always hit her 16 vs 10's or 12 vs 3's...lol), low limit player, but a real nice lady, although quite talkative. One of those that you never have to wonder what she is thinking....lol. I always enjoyed here company.
edit: you know what, in thinking about it you are right. It was $50 bonus for a $10 minimum wager or 5:1. My bad. I played quarters, so was only getting 2:1 and forgot that there is a $10 minimum for the bonus. So obviously, this makes tringlomane's calculations incorrect, but I think someone else said that it takes the game at least close to break even.
Quote: kewljOk, well then it has changes in the last 3 or 4 months. 5:1 is less than it used to be, but once per day more often than it used to be allowed. I am no longer allowed to play tables games (since January) at this location so haven't played for a while. And since there is only 1 shift per day and 2 or 3 total pit guys, there is no going back on a different shift. lol My partner still plays our machine play and we both like the diner-like café so we do still visit weekly.
Do you know an older woman named Nancy that plays almost everyday? She shows up right about the time tables open and plays for a couple hours. Don't know how late she stays. She is not an AP, just an 80% basic strategy (doesn't always hit her 16 vs 10's or 12 vs 3's...lol), low limit player, but a real nice lady, although quite talkative. One of those that you never have to wonder what she is thinking....lol. I always enjoyed here company.
You are right in the sense that they did change it because months ago. Long ago, if you bet $3, you'd get $25 back.
Haha! You got backed-off. That sucks. I keep my sessions long enough to be under radar. I probably did play with Nancy before, but not sure. I don't play when the tables open (late night player).
Gotta love the predictables! Nancy.
I'm really cautious with that place, because even if you make over $200 there and cash out, the cashier calls the pit boss every time!
Quote: BlackjackGambitYou are right in the sense that they did change it because months ago. Long ago, if you bet $3, you'd get $25 back.
Haha! You got backed-off. That sucks. I keep my sessions long enough to be under radar. I probably did play with Nancy before, but not sure. I don't play when the tables open (late night player).
Gotta love the predictables! Nancy.
I'm really cautious with that place, because even if you make over $200 there and cash out, the cashier calls the pit boss every time!
Yes, they do call over on several hundred dollar cashouts. Even machine wins of $300 must be cashed at the cage and not the kiosks. Funny little local's place.
Yeah, I knew my action was going to be more than they could handle. But they have or had decent penetration, so I toned my spread down a bit and figured I would play till they had enough of me. If I had it to do over again, I might play a little lower and milk it a little longer.
If you are counting there and spreading be careful. And just so you know, there is no heat from the pit. Evaluations are done from surveillance and then one day you sit down and the pit guy tells you that you can't play tables any more. Very polite, but never-the-less....
Quote: kewljVery few places in US have early surrender.
Name one, please!
Quote: IbeatyouracesThe only time I've ever got to use early surrender was in a blackjack tournament at Kewadin Casino in St. Ignace and you could only do it against an ace.
When I was in my local casino, I overheard a conversation between a dealer and some pit critters about the difference between early and late surrender. They eventually agreed that late surrender was what you did after a double down in Spanish 21.
Quote: 21formeName one, please!
Bet you can't, not even in the back room of Joe's candy store !
Quote: kewljYes, they do call over on several hundred dollar cashouts. Even machine wins of $300 must be cashed at the cage and not the kiosks. Funny little local's place.
Yeah, I knew my action was going to be more than they could handle. But they have or had decent penetration, so I toned my spread down a bit and figured I would play till they had enough of me. If I had it to do over again, I might play a little lower and milk it a little longer.
If you are counting there and spreading be careful. And just so you know, there is no heat from the pit. Evaluations are done from surveillance and then one day you sit down and the pit guy tells you that you can't play tables any more. Very polite, but never-the-less....
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I could name a few if you include one's that only let you do it because they don't know the difference between late and early surrender.Quote: BuzzardBet you can't, not even in the back room of Joe's candy store !
I asked if they had surrender and she said yes. I asked if I could surrender and she said yes taking half my bet. I've been told blackjack dealer school takes 3-6 weeks so I just have to trust the person who went to school for it.Quote: BuzzardDealer stupidity is not a valid response LOL
Quote: BlackjackGambitMGM!? HA! You must be kidding me. MGM property high limit has the better rules on the strip
Apparently some Vegas CET casinos are modifying their high limit games to be more competitive with MGM properties. I've read on another board that Harrahs and Ballys now offer $25 games of 6 deck S17 BJ in their high limit rooms (apparently Ballys never even had a high limit room for tables and just recently made one). The big change is that these games allow resplitting aces up to four hands, which is uncommon for CET blackjack.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWhen I was in my local casino, I overheard a conversation between a dealer and some pit critters about the difference between early and late surrender. They eventually agreed that late surrender what what you did after a double down in Spanish 21.
*facepalm*
I've tried to get customers (and fellow dealers, for that matter) to correctly differentiate between surrendering and rescuing. No soap.
The same probably applies to US casinos that offer Late Surrender (Early Surrender does not exist as far as I know in US), except maybe for a few knoweledgable dealers or players, they just call it Surrender.
So it is no wonder that dealers would have no clue as to what the term Early or Late refers to if they come across the term.
figures.
Anyway, another rule that I'd like to see actually used somewhere is 5 or 7 card charlie. That only takes place probably every 100 hands or so, but if you're scraping for EV points, it helps.
Quote: UTHfanyeah, a typo huh?
figures.
Anyway, another rule that I'd like to see actually used somewhere is 5 or 7 card charlie. That only takes place probably every 100 hands or so, but if you're scraping for EV points, it helps.
I'd love a 5 card charlie rule, but since it's worth nearly 1.5% most games would be in the players favor from the start. 6 card offers .16% though and would be pretty cool to see.
