$100 bonus with 30 blackjacks at Tuscany Casino in Vegas.
May 1st, 2010 at 1:18:19 AM
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Tuscany has a current promotion of a $100 bonus with 30 blackjacks within 30 days with $10 minimum average bet.
Assuming flat betting at $10, it effectively means being paid an additional $3.33 for every blackjack. Does this actually make the game a slight edge for the player?
Regards,
Rob
Assuming flat betting at $10, it effectively means being paid an additional $3.33 for every blackjack. Does this actually make the game a slight edge for the player?
Regards,
Rob
May 1st, 2010 at 3:07:52 AM
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That does work out to player advantage unless it is 6:5 blackjack . What's more is it isn't that difficult to achieve as it requires only about 8 hours of play over 30 days.
Since a blackjack comes every 21 plays you should meet the requirement in 21*30=630 hands which should take about 8 hours. The $100 should be 15.87 cents per hand. Assuming you stick to the minimum of $10, that is 1.56% player advantage which should clear even the worst play. If you do it report back how much you were down when you won the $100.
I suspect that will be a popular promotion, and fill their 9 blackjack tables quickly. They have two craps tables if you have to wait, but you may want to go on off hours. Since it is a promotion you could make if you are visiting Tuscany and not a local there may be some guests that try it.
Since a blackjack comes every 21 plays you should meet the requirement in 21*30=630 hands which should take about 8 hours. The $100 should be 15.87 cents per hand. Assuming you stick to the minimum of $10, that is 1.56% player advantage which should clear even the worst play. If you do it report back how much you were down when you won the $100.
I suspect that will be a popular promotion, and fill their 9 blackjack tables quickly. They have two craps tables if you have to wait, but you may want to go on off hours. Since it is a promotion you could make if you are visiting Tuscany and not a local there may be some guests that try it.
May 1st, 2010 at 3:29:21 AM
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I don't have the bankroll for the Terrible's promotion, but I do for this one! Thanks for posting.
May 1st, 2010 at 4:20:50 AM
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When I was at Tuscany a month or so ago, I befriended a guy doing this promotion. He lost like $800 and maybe 10 hour getting it? He was playing average basic strategy, so that's one reason he lost so much.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
May 1st, 2010 at 4:50:41 AM
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Quote: ahiromuWhen I was at Tuscany a month or so ago, I befriended a guy doing this promotion. He lost like $800 and maybe 10 hour getting it? He was playing average basic strategy, so that's one reason he lost so much.
Does average basic strategy mean that he didn't really know basic strategy and made a lot of mistakes?
May 1st, 2010 at 5:23:20 AM
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Quote: pacomartinDoes average basic strategy mean that he didn't really know basic strategy and made a lot of mistakes?
Yeah, I can't remember any specifics but I do remember shaking my head a few times (but not saying anything).
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
May 1st, 2010 at 10:11:39 AM
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What's the Terrible's promotion?
May 1st, 2010 at 10:15:58 AM
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https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/las-vegas-casinos/terribles/1624-10-cashback/
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
May 1st, 2010 at 10:05:28 PM
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I wonder if they will let me play two $10 hands at one time. That way, I can maybe get the bonus in 4 hours.
May 2nd, 2010 at 4:10:56 AM
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I think it gets players in the door and it keeps them from opening their yaps about a five dollar table.
That is probably worth it to the casino. Even if they have to pay out on this, they are still getting alot of visitors. Once they discontinue the promotion... those visitors will still be in the habit of going to the Tuscany. They have been running this promotion since January, I believe.
Anyone suspicious about the Full Details in the Pit notice on their website. The details should be on the website too and if they are not, then something is probably being concealed.
That is probably worth it to the casino. Even if they have to pay out on this, they are still getting alot of visitors. Once they discontinue the promotion... those visitors will still be in the habit of going to the Tuscany. They have been running this promotion since January, I believe.
Anyone suspicious about the Full Details in the Pit notice on their website. The details should be on the website too and if they are not, then something is probably being concealed.
May 2nd, 2010 at 4:24:08 AM
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>>Does average basic strategy mean that he didn't really know basic strategy and made a lot of mistakes?
>Yeah, I can't remember any specifics but I do remember shaking my head a few times (but not saying anything).
A great many people seem to have a vague idea of what Basic Strategy is and will often make personal modifications of it based on their perceptions of recent history or simply due to the fact that they become excited. Sometimes a player will say congratulations to me or say "that was well done" when I noticeably depart from Basic Strategy and it proves successful. I don't know what they silently say to themselves when I depart from basic strategy and lose.
>Yeah, I can't remember any specifics but I do remember shaking my head a few times (but not saying anything).
A great many people seem to have a vague idea of what Basic Strategy is and will often make personal modifications of it based on their perceptions of recent history or simply due to the fact that they become excited. Sometimes a player will say congratulations to me or say "that was well done" when I noticeably depart from Basic Strategy and it proves successful. I don't know what they silently say to themselves when I depart from basic strategy and lose.
May 2nd, 2010 at 7:26:13 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffA great many people seem to have a vague idea of what Basic Strategy is and will often make personal modifications of it based on their perceptions of recent history or simply due to the fact that they become excited.
There seems to be a folk basic strategy that many people follow. They're absolutely convinced that this is correct play. So many people play this way that actual basic strategy generates dirty looks and head shakes.
Some of the most common rules of folk basic strategy:
1. Always stay on soft 18
2. Stand on a hard 12 against a 6 or less (corrected EDIT)
3. Insure a "good hand" (my favorite)
4. Never double against a 10 or ace
I've also heard a lot of these moves suggested by dealers. It amazes me that they don't even have enough interest in the game they deal to learn how to play.
May 2nd, 2010 at 7:49:35 AM
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You are highlighting some fairly minor errors. Many people always stay on a soft 17, not distinguishing it from a hard 17. I read somewhere that people who take "even money" was some incredible 95%.
There is almost no way to intuitively understand the best option for player 12 against a dealer 3, and a player 13 against a dealer 2. You would simply have to lay out all the hundreds of ways for the cards to play out, or trust the mathematician who has done it for you.
There is almost no way to intuitively understand the best option for player 12 against a dealer 3, and a player 13 against a dealer 2. You would simply have to lay out all the hundreds of ways for the cards to play out, or trust the mathematician who has done it for you.
May 2nd, 2010 at 8:12:10 AM
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That should read hard 12 (no 13). Pretty sure all or most basic strategy charts advise hitting a hard 12 versus a dealer 2 or 3.
May 2nd, 2010 at 9:07:32 AM
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The promotion has been effect since January. I think your comment about filling the waiting time in with a few rolls at the craps table indicates part of the value of the promotion. It gets people in the door and once there they tend to make wagers! That would mean that even if there was a slight player's advantage to this promotion the casino has determined that it is worth it.Quote: pacomartinI suspect that will be a popular promotion, and fill their 9 blackjack tables quickly. They have two craps tables if you have to wait ...
No one yaps about a five dollar table. Even if they offer a five dollar table, people will tend to play at the ten dollar level so as to qualify for the 100.00 bonus. The people who play at the ten dollar level may not be high rollers but they are not fleas. Its a fairly cheap way to compete for customers.
May 2nd, 2010 at 9:15:53 AM
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Quote: ahiromuWhen I was at Tuscany a month or so ago, I befriended a guy doing this promotion. He lost like $800 and maybe 10 hour getting it? He was playing average basic strategy, so that's one reason he lost so much.
Did you take note of his betting style? With a continuous flat bet of $10 on one hand, your chance of being down $800 after 10 hours of play is 1.5%. Either this guy had the worst luck imaginable or he was overbetting.
Surprised no-one has answered the above posters question: will they let you play two hands of $10? If so, this becomes eminently more doable. I doubt they will because (1) the common rule that if you are playing two spots you must play double the minimum on both spots (but maybe that would be $10?) and (2) pit bosses will always rule against the player.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
May 2nd, 2010 at 11:14:25 AM
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I suspect that the web site statement about " full details available in the Pit " indicates there is some fine print that deals with that issue.Quote: teddysSurprised no-one has answered the above posters question: will they let you play two hands of $10?
May 2nd, 2010 at 11:33:49 AM
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Quote: nyuhoosier
Some of the most common rules of folk basic strategy:
4. Never double against a 10 or ace
Ummm... when would you double against an ace? In multi-deck, never. Right?
May 2nd, 2010 at 11:41:13 AM
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Quote: MelmanUmmm... when would you double against an ace? In multi-deck, never. Right?
Depends on the rules. In most "hit soft 17" games, you would double against an ace with 11.
I forget that some people play games where dealer stands on soft 17. Those aren't available at my table minimums.
May 2nd, 2010 at 11:41:14 AM
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Quote: MelmanUmmm... when would you double against an ace? In multi-deck, never. Right?
Depends on the rules. In most "hit soft 17" games, you would double against an ace with 11.
I forget that some people play games where dealer stands on soft 17. Those aren't available at my table minimums.
May 2nd, 2010 at 12:24:19 PM
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Back to the promotion.
In a Vegas where blackjack has dropped 34% in revenue in the last 28 months that casino must have a valid reason to offer a slight player advantage game. Maybe it sells a few dozen extra hotel rooms per month. Maybe it attracts locals who also buy dinner. Maybe some of the guests try out the promotion, and then simply run out of hours or energy to make it to the 30 blackjacks.
Maybe they consider it an effective way to increase their database.
Sometimes people ask about getting a giant suite for a reunion. They don't realize how expensive suites are in Vegas. I suggest Tuscany because the rooms are large and inexpensive. That way they can afford a bunch of rooms, and the rooms are big enough so that they can gather and drink and talk.
In a Vegas where blackjack has dropped 34% in revenue in the last 28 months that casino must have a valid reason to offer a slight player advantage game. Maybe it sells a few dozen extra hotel rooms per month. Maybe it attracts locals who also buy dinner. Maybe some of the guests try out the promotion, and then simply run out of hours or energy to make it to the 30 blackjacks.
Maybe they consider it an effective way to increase their database.
Sometimes people ask about getting a giant suite for a reunion. They don't realize how expensive suites are in Vegas. I suggest Tuscany because the rooms are large and inexpensive. That way they can afford a bunch of rooms, and the rooms are big enough so that they can gather and drink and talk.
May 2nd, 2010 at 1:05:27 PM
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Quote: teddysDid you take note of his betting style? With a continuous flat bet of $10 on one hand, your chance of being down $800 after 10 hours of play is 1.5%. Either this guy had the worst luck imaginable or he was overbetting.
Surprised no-one has answered the above posters question: will they let you play two hands of $10? If so, this becomes eminently more doable. I doubt they will because (1) the common rule that if you are playing two spots you must play double the minimum on both spots (but maybe that would be $10?) and (2) pit bosses will always rule against the player.
He was overbetting reasonably often. The minimum was $5, I forget if they let you play two hands at the same time.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
May 11th, 2010 at 1:40:19 PM
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Hi,
I was there on Sunday night, but they raised the minimum to $15 now for the promo. They said they just raised it from $10 last week, and previously was just $5. I asked if it was too busy at the lower limits, and they said it wasn't but just management decision. It was fairly quiet when I was there with 3 blackjack tables open, and I was just playing with one other player, and played 2 hands at a time for $15 each. I played for about 2 1/2 hours, and reached my goal of getting 15 blackjacks, so I can get the rest the next visit. That's about what's expected, and I am ahead of the dealer blackjacks of 8 while I was there. I am up $485 while I was there as I had a good run before the cards turned sour the last shoe. If I wasn't flat betting purely for the promotion, I would have easily been up over a grand.
I was there on Sunday night, but they raised the minimum to $15 now for the promo. They said they just raised it from $10 last week, and previously was just $5. I asked if it was too busy at the lower limits, and they said it wasn't but just management decision. It was fairly quiet when I was there with 3 blackjack tables open, and I was just playing with one other player, and played 2 hands at a time for $15 each. I played for about 2 1/2 hours, and reached my goal of getting 15 blackjacks, so I can get the rest the next visit. That's about what's expected, and I am ahead of the dealer blackjacks of 8 while I was there. I am up $485 while I was there as I had a good run before the cards turned sour the last shoe. If I wasn't flat betting purely for the promotion, I would have easily been up over a grand.
May 11th, 2010 at 4:55:33 PM
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Quote: RobmorrowI was there on Sunday night, but they raised the minimum to $15 now for the promo. They said they just raised it from $10 last week, and previously was just $5. I asked if it was too busy at the lower limits, and they said it wasn't but just management decision.
I wrote to complain to the casino manager about this change. My email and his response are below. Can anyone tell me if the figure I quoted (8 hours) is correct?
Mr. Angelo:
A recent post on a Vegas forum online says Tuscany has upped the minimum
required bet to $15 for its blackjack promotion.
I just wanted to express my disappointment in this change, if it is
true. I never had a chance to take advantage of the promotion, and doubt
I will be able to now. The amount of time necessary to receive 30
blackjacks (I'm told about 8 hours of continuous play) seems
unreasonable at $15/hand, when the promotion still offers only $100.
I would urge you to consider reinstituting a level of play that is
attainable for locals as well as tourists (or giving locals a pass on
the higher minimum). Although the change might seem small, it means the
difference between a person such as me being in the casino three times a
week over the next few weeks in pursuit of the promotion, and being
priced out. Thanks for reading my letter.
Hi [name], in response to your e-mail on the blackjack blackout promotion,
I'm not sure where you received your information on how long it takes to
complete the blackout card we've seen players complete the card in less
than four hours. Also you have thirty days in which to complete the
card, I hope you understand this is not a task that is unreachable with
that much time. I THANKYOU for your letter it's good to hear feedback
from our customers, hope you can give it try and win some money!
Thankyou Jimmy
May 11th, 2010 at 5:54:27 PM
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Quote: nyuhoosierI wrote to complain to the casino manager about this change. My email and his response are below. Can anyone tell me if the figure I quoted (8 hours) is correct?
My game comparison page lists blackjack at 70 (corrected) hands per hour. Assuming any blackjack will do (including ties), the probability per hand is 4.75%. So the expected blackjacks per hour is 70 × 0.0475 = 3.32. The expected time to get 30 blackjacks, playing one hand at a time, is 9.02 hours.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 11th, 2010 at 6:38:04 PM
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Wiz, did you mean to say 70 hands per hour? The table at the bottom of the page has 70.
May 11th, 2010 at 8:28:15 PM
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Quote: nyuhoosierWiz, did you mean to say 70 hands per hour? The table at the bottom of the page has 70.
Doh! I just went back and corrected it, thanks.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 11th, 2010 at 8:37:47 PM
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Quote: RobmorrowTuscany has a current promotion of a $100 bonus with 30 blackjacks within 30 days with $10 minimum average bet.
Wow. That makes the free golf shirt I got at the Fremont for 15 blackjacks in a 24-hour period, sound pretty crappy in comparison.
May 11th, 2010 at 8:37:57 PM
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what does the 48 hands/hr in craps mean?
is that 48 passline decisions resolved?
is that 48 passline decisions resolved?
May 12th, 2010 at 4:42:52 AM
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Yes. I would quite agree with that statement, although some people might place great value on some particularly humorous or impressive shirt. The main difference is that the Fremont is Downtown and Tuscany Resorts is Off-Strip although its a variable distance off-strip depending upon sex, age, time of day, etc.Quote: MelmanWow. That makes the free golf shirt I got at the Fremont for 15 blackjacks in a 24-hour period, sound pretty crappy in comparison.
I wonder if a bus ride or cab ride, given the time and expense, would really have changed your mind on which promotion you would choose? If you are staying downtown the trek to Tuscany makes the promotion of little real value. If you are within a few blocks of Tuscany, then yes... by all means its worth the trek. If you happen to live in Las Vegas then it becomes even more of an easy decision for you. I think this is a promotion that is attractive but not stupendously so. Its a very subtle way of raising table limits in an effective manner but its not enough to induce me to buy an airline ticket.
May 12th, 2010 at 2:41:38 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffI wonder if a bus ride or cab ride, given the time and expense, would really have changed your mind on which promotion you would choose? If you are staying downtown the trek to Tuscany makes the promotion of little real value. If you are within a few blocks of Tuscany, then yes... by all means its worth the trek. If you happen to live in Las Vegas then it becomes even more of an easy decision for you. I think this is a promotion that is attractive but not stupendously so. Its a very subtle way of raising table limits in an effective manner but its not enough to induce me to buy an airline ticket.
The bus is only $15 for three days, and you might purchase the ticket anyway. Beside Tuscany rooms are as cheap as downtown, and the Cafe at nearby Ellis Island is just as cheap as downtown. But no, it is not worth an airline ticket, but it may change your mind about where you were going to stay.
May 22nd, 2010 at 5:04:11 PM
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I finished my 30 blackjacks last weekend. It took me 3 1/2 hours playing two hands to get another 15 blackjacks. The last 2 blackjacks took over an hour to get, as I had something like 10 Aces dealt for the first card, but never a face or 10 to match it on the 2nd card. I ended up losing $130, but got my $100 bonus so ended up losing $30 for the night. Overall, I am still ahead $455, as I won $485 the prior weekend. The pit boss did say I was welcome to complete another 30 Blackjack Knockout card to earn the bonus again.
January 13th, 2014 at 11:20:32 AM
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I want to run a similar promotion at our Casino. If anyone remembers, two quick questions:
1. If you played more than one hand at a time, did all hands count?
2. Anyone remember how the actual promotion was run? Were you given some sort of card? Was the card stamped? Stickers?
Thanks,
Oscar
1. If you played more than one hand at a time, did all hands count?
2. Anyone remember how the actual promotion was run? Were you given some sort of card? Was the card stamped? Stickers?
Thanks,
Oscar
January 13th, 2014 at 11:34:16 AM
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I did not participate in this promotion, but as a player, I'd expect that all my hands would count. Why shouldn't I; I'm betting two spots legitimately. (Similarly, I'd expect to have twice the chance to win in any kind of seat-based drawing, but that'd never happen...) Now, if you wanted to limit people to one spot during the promotion (to get more people in the door), that's fine... but allowing two hands, and excluding one hand from the promotion just seems sour.
January 13th, 2014 at 11:35:48 AM
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Oscar,
Seems to me the cheap way to do this would be to go down to the hobby store and buy one hand punch per table and chain it next to the dealer. Pick a strange shape, like a cloverleaf, and give out tickets with squares marked.
Seems to me all hands should count; money is money, and you could always make people play 2x minimum to get 2 hands or something during the promotion, but it shouldn't be necessary at equal value per spot. But you were asking what the other casino did, so my answer to that is, I don't know.
Good luck! I think it's a fun promotion and I hope you do it.
Seems to me the cheap way to do this would be to go down to the hobby store and buy one hand punch per table and chain it next to the dealer. Pick a strange shape, like a cloverleaf, and give out tickets with squares marked.
Seems to me all hands should count; money is money, and you could always make people play 2x minimum to get 2 hands or something during the promotion, but it shouldn't be necessary at equal value per spot. But you were asking what the other casino did, so my answer to that is, I don't know.
Good luck! I think it's a fun promotion and I hope you do it.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
January 13th, 2014 at 11:39:03 AM
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They have had this promotion in the past. I think you had to get less blackjacks,I cant remember 100% on that fact.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
January 13th, 2014 at 12:00:45 PM
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A few weeks ago, the Tuscany had a promotion where six BJs earned a bottle of wine. They gave the player a ticket after each BJ which then had to be presented to the pit boss when six were earned. All hands counted.
100% risk of ruin
January 13th, 2014 at 2:07:03 PM
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Quote: pacomartinThat does work out to player advantage unless it is 6:5 blackjack . What's more is it isn't that difficult to achieve as it requires only about 8 hours of play over 30 days.
Since a blackjack comes every 21 plays you should meet the requirement in 21*30=630 hands which should take about 8 hours. The $100 should be 15.87 cents per hand. Assuming you stick to the minimum of $10, that is 1.56% player advantage which should clear even the worst play. If you do it report back how much you were down when you won the $100.
I suspect that will be a popular promotion, and fill their 9 blackjack tables quickly. They have two craps tables if you have to wait, but you may want to go on off hours. Since it is a promotion you could make if you are visiting Tuscany and not a local there may be some guests that try it.
I believe that figure is the increase in favorability to the player. You should subtract the house edge for a figure that represents actual player advantage. Rather than flat betting 10, he should flat bet the maximum, ramping down if the count goes down. Or add 2 to the true count before placing every bet with limited BR.
January 13th, 2014 at 4:45:39 PM
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Quote: RogerKintA few weeks ago, the Tuscany had a promotion where six BJs earned a bottle of wine. They gave the player a ticket after each BJ which then had to be presented to the pit boss when six were earned. All hands counted.
Several years ago, Tuscany had a promo where, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, each Blackjack with a $ 10 bet got a bottle of wine. And you could trade 3 bottles for a nicer bottle. I think the winery was Bella Vista or something like that, and it retailed back home for about $ 7 per bottle.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
