Suggestions for Double deck vs. 6 deck vs. Super Fun 21 from counters

Hello,

I've been playing blackjack since the late summer and made the mistake of relying on basic strategy and betting systems or betting larger when I'm on a roll. I've recently come to count cards, and had some pretty good success for a couple of trips, but I've been having terrible results with 6 deck blackjack (4.5 deck penetration, 3:2 BJ, hand shuffled shoe, DAS, Surrender any dealer upcard, dealer hits on S17) the last couple months (around 60 hours of play). Part of it is I haven't really had much of a bet spread (1-4 when I was making money, 1-3 when I was getting my ass reamed by the dealers), too persistent in trying to grind out a larger profit (I couldn't bring myself to leave after making $30 playing for 10 hours and then I'd lose my $200 buy-in and another $200 in 20 minutes during high counts), haven't Wonged out until recently in negative counts, and just started to try back counting (this one is not working out that well cause the tables are often full during busy times) although a good chunk of me losing around $2000 during this time period in $5 tables is that I'm losing a huge percentage of the bigger bets vs. the dealer in high counts. I use Hi-Lo for this game, and I'm an expert at keeping the count.

Anyway, I'm super frustrated and weary and sad and in pain because I literally whip and hit myself with a belt as self-punishment. I'm looking at some of the other blackjack games here and seeing what the feeling is for these games:

Super Fun 21 Single Deck (so far I've tried about 10 hours of play recently on these tables and lost around $700): $10 minimum, even money BJ, Player BJ is automatic winner, Double anytime including split Aces, surrender anytime, dealer hits on S17, 4-5 hands for single player, 3 hands for 2 players, 2 hands for 3 or more players. A couple of days ago on my trip to the casino I first became aware of Hi-Opt I and thought that was good for this game so I learned it in the car and used it later that day for the Super Fun 21. Approximately 25 cards are dealt before shuffle assuming 3 players in the game. I used Hi-Lo for this one too prior to my last trip where I used Hi-Opt I. I was up around $200 after a few hours of play (mostly flat betting $10 and occasionally going to $15) and I just kept staying in until I was down $100 after the dealer curb stomped me for 10 minutes in a row (this time just flat betting). I was extremely retarded for not leaving earlier so that is on me. Anyway, I like Hi-Opt I because it doesn't count the Ace, but I'm really not sure where to really take advantage of the side count of Aces outside of being a little more aware of my chances on getting a 10 card vs. an Ace when doubling down. Also I don't think that I've ever seen a running count go higher than +4. It could factor into pretty good TC converting by fractions, but I find it astounding.

Now, for Double-deck. Pitch game with the same good rules pretty much as the 6-deck but penetration is around 50% and minimum bets are $25. Player shuffles at end of deck and puts in a machine and takes out a different shuffled double deck) I've never played this. Problems that I have with this game are as follows: Pitch game (I can't see the cards to count, which I find stupid), deck penetration (I really don't even see the benefit of counting when penetration is so low), and finally the minimum bet is high (I don't have much of a bank roll and can't afford many more losing sessions like I've been having).

I prefer playing heads up, and I'm very good at the keeping the running count, converting true count, fractions for single deck, etc. I guess I'd like some input from the forum on these games. Whether I should stick with 6 deck, move up to DD for a bit, different counting systems good for the games, and other thoughts.

Thanks!

Why don't you buy a real blackjack program designed for card counters, run the numbers for the games you're playing, and that should answer all your questions. Why rely on the opinions of people you don't know when you can answer all your questions yourself?

OK, first of all, I don't understand the self punishment thing? If you are 'literally' doing this, as you say....for god sakes stop.

I don't play superfun21, so I have no comment about that.

Double deck: I play some very mediocre conditions and games that other counters won't bother with, but even I wouldn't play that dd game with 50% pen. The penetration is just too bad, which means not enough good counts. To make that game worthwhile, you need a decent spread. The kind of spread that draws too much attention at dd. Without a big spread you will just be spinning your wheels. Maybe playing a marginal winning game, but really your results either way, will be mostly about just variance.

6 deck: The news here is even worse for you. While I WOULD play this mediocre six deck game that you described, I would attack it with a decent spread, at least 1-16. Attacking with a smaller spread of say 1-6 or 1-8, would put you right back in the same place as above. Without aggressive wonging out, you may be playing a marginal winning game, but you really will be stuck in the mud, going back and forth, with any significant swings just being due to variance. Now, the way you are playing this six deck game, play all with a very small spread, you probably aren't even playing a margjnal winning game. You are most likely still playing a longterm losing game.

Sorry to be a downer, but the fact is card counting provides you with just a very slim advantage, IF you play right and bet right, and that means a reasonable spread. There is very little margin for error. And not using a big enough spread is an error. You need a big enough spread on those very few hands that you have an advantage to overcome all the many hands that you don't have an advantage.

I change my mind.