Free Bet Blackjack
Quote: rhodyBobWonder what's going on with these info cards.
I was there Sunday night ~ 5:00 PM and there were no cards anywhere. The lady next to me, betting all greens, wanted an explanation, and again the language barrier got in the way. Elderly lady, Asian dealer. The floor came by to do the splaynin, and I asked where were those cards "I thought I saw around here the other day". Pit boss or someone more senior came by, said "oh yeah, I saw those back in the office" and off she went. Came back a few minutes later with a stack of cards. Gave one to me, which I gave to the lady, and pit person put the rest of the cards on top of the cabinet that sits in the middle of the pit. They were there when I left ~ 6:00.
If I were to hazard a guess, my bet would be that the worker bees aren't having any of the New Game KoolAid. Like everywhere else, please don't disturb my established working situation. Low-level management climbs in the gerbil wheel and starts walking. No disruption in the normal routine appreciated. The games that were being offered when they started working there are the status quo, with nothing new or different tolerated. With all the watchfulness and paranoia that we see with rating play, accounting for any chip higher than green, and who knows what else, who can blame them?
The cards are there, the cards are not. There. Not. Maybe the players have been asking for them all.
BTW, the tables were all $15 minimum all day Sunday.
That's a very depressing report/guess. I would've hoped the dealers would enjoy the break from same-ole' same-ole'.
Quote: beachbumbabsThat's a very depressing report/guess. I would've hoped the dealers would enjoy the break from same-ole' same-ole'.
Dealers can kill any game. I saw dealers Kill Digital 21 and Let it Ride Bonus at the Isle. Nobody likes to be thrown into a new game without training. And I do mean NOBODY. With Digital 21 management would not allow a dealer to have the reset key for malfunctions. Imagine how happy the players were to sit there will dealer had to try and get pit boss to get his ass over there.
So they told the players the game sucked and was always malfunctioning.
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly
How players signal for a free split or double-down bet is a work in progress.
Yes, this needs to be standardized, as the two places I have played, Casino Royale and Golden Gate, had different ways to do it.
Switch, are there instructions that go out with the game on how to "train" the players in this?
Quote: BigTipYes, this needs to be standardized, as the two places I have played, Casino Royale and Golden Gate, had different ways to do it.
Switch, are there instructions that go out with the game on how to "train" the players in this?
wudged's reply covers the way that I originally trained dealers to handle the free bets. The concern was that a free double is hard to signal as usually the player will place more chips down. The finger point can be construed as a 'hit' if the dealer does not get a confirmation.
Generally a verbal confirmation is enough but The Golden Gate has a very loud atmosphere so we devised a way that the player could show the free double by tapping his clenched fist next to his original wager (actually it was the DTG there that suggested it).
Most casinos are still going with the finger point along with verbal confirmation but there is at least 2 ways to request the free double so it's best to ask the dealer what communication is needed.
I will say that the "tapping" of it got just a tad exuberant at times though! lol
But it was confusing, and led to an unneccesary discussion with the dealer, when changing casinos.
Edit: Added the player training statement.
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyI still like the Free Bet signaling method I posted earlier in this thread: the usual single-digit or split-fingers.
Single digit for a free double would be a disaster. It looks too much like a hit signal, and opens the door too wide for shot-takers. A three comes out, "No, no, I was hitting." An ace falls on the nine, "No, no, that was a free double."
When the pit is called to differentiate hand signal meaning I have always seen them make the call based on whether or not the finger touched the field: touch=hit. I have seen players whine back about intent, but the physical action has always won over mental telepathy. True, Free Bet would involve more "double" signals. For standard play I let my additional bet signal intent to double, except for a 5-pair. By the way, the fist-bump is insufficient for a 5-pair. I split mine facing a dealer's 5 hoping for additional free doubles, free splits or soft doubles. I say the door you refer to as wide open has always been open, it would just be seeing a lot more traffic.Quote: DeucekiesSingle digit for a free double would be a disaster. It looks too much like a hit signal, and opens the door too wide for shot-takers. A three comes out, "No, no, I was hitting." An ace falls on the nine, "No, no, that was a free double."
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyWhen the pit is called to differentiate hand signal meaning I have always seen them make the call based on whether or not the finger touched the field: touch=hit.
That wouldn't fly in most cardrooms I've played in. Touching the table, pointing at the hand, giving a "come here" gesture, they all mean hit. Heck, when we had Blackjack Switch, we considered inventing a different signal for switching because we felt the traditional switch signal was too close to a hit. Any signal for doubling that doesn't involve putting more money out would have to be truly unique. The fist pound is the best suggestion I've seen so far.
Quote:I have seen players whine back about intent, but the physical action has always won over mental telepathy. True, Free Bet would involve more "double" signals. For standard play I let my additional bet signal intent to double, except for a 5-pair. By the way, the fist-bump is insufficient for a 5-pair. I split mine facing a dealer's 5 hoping for additional free doubles, free splits or soft doubles. I say the door you refer to as wide open has always been open, it would just be seeing a lot more traffic.
If you split your 5-pair, you're giving the two-finger signal, correct? A tap would be a hit, and a fist-bump would be a free double.
Bottom line is this. Pit calls and rulings slow down the game and lead to upset customers. No sense in letting that happen if you don't have to.
Quote: DeucekiesSingle digit for a free double would be a disaster. It looks too much like a hit signal, and opens the door too wide for shot-takers. A three comes out, "No, no, I was hitting." An ace falls on the nine, "No, no, that was a free double."
The free doubles have been causing a lot of confusion. Some players point to the felt next to the original bet, some tap the felt, some express it verbally while others do a combination of these. Some dealers are too quick to give a card and some of that is deliberate in my opinion. The result is too many calls to the floor and even the pit boss, further slowing down the game.
Players are now being told to verbally express their wish to free double but they still don't always know what to do with their hands. Surveillance cannot hear a verbal request, obviously, but are somewhat used to that. This casino has never had a hand signal for surrender and the same problems routinely pop up. The only thing I can think of would be a free double lammer that the player could use.
In the meantime, if you want to free double or surrender at Mohegan Sun, the first thing to do is put both hands on your lap and only then make the verbal request. That effectively takes them out of play.
Brilliant! *sigh* I would not be surprised to hear they won.Quote: kitties666...many players entered not realizing [Free Bet] is not a standard blackjack game, but most played anyway & figured it out.
I've had a really hectic couple of weeks, due to various reasons, and I'm working through my backlog of 'things to do' list.
I will post them out tomorrow and they should take around 7-10 days to arrive.
I hope that they are worth the wait :-)
Personally my gesture, unless hitting or standing or adding real money, is to place my hand on the table and leave it there.Quote: 1BBSome players...tap the felt...
If I want to split I use a "2nd down" (i.e. fist clenched with Index and Little finger extended); if I want a free double I use "4th down" (i.e. fist clenched, no fingers). For the record with Switch I made an X shape using my two forearms.
Then I say nothing until the dealers acts - usually realising I want the freebie; otherwise I'll make a verbal request - thus this usually has the desired effect (since I have not used a hit nor stand gesture).
PS Geoff - I hope to be at Coventry, if you have a spare FB token I'll see you there and can buy you a beer!!
Quote: charliepatrick
PS Geoff - I hope to be at Coventry, if you have a spare FB token I'll see you there and can buy you a beer!!
Deal ! :-)
Monday was a Massachusetts holiday so business was good. Once again the Free Bet tables were $15 minimum as were the S17 regular tables nearby. Once again I decided the H17, $5 tables were a better deal for me even though they are in another casino. On Tuesday morning half of pit 5 was closed either for cleaning or maintenance so only two Free Bet tables were open. Both Free Bet tables were $15 minimum. I thought the dozen or so S17 standard tables nearby with a $10 minimum were a better deal, so that’s where I played. Later in the day the rest of pit 5 opened except one of the Free Bet tables was not staffed. Huh? Free Bet table minimums remained at $15 so I continued to play at the S17, $10 standard tables. On Wednesday morning several pit 5 tables, including two Free Bet tables, were once again out of action for maintenance. The remaining two Free Bet tables were now at a $10 minimum which I would have played had I not been on my way out the door.
So, no Free Bet for me this trip due to the table minimums Mohegan Sun chooses to set most of the time. As mentioned in this thread a $10 Free Bet table minimum is competitive with the always-open $5 H17 tables. $15 minimum Free Bet tables are not attractive to me when surrounded by $10 minimum S17 standard tables. I think Mohegan Sun would give Free Bet a better chance at success with constant $10 minimums, not to mention keeping all the tables open. Most players are not betting the table minimum, so I don’t see where raising the minimum is going to produce that much more revenue. Anyone have an opinion on whether or not Mohegan Sun is giving Free Bet a fair shot?
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyI visited Mohegan Sun this past weekend hoping to play Free Bet. After meeting friends for brunch Sunday noon at another Indian-owned casino in the area *cough* I rolled into Mohegan Sun late in the afternoon. All four Free Bet tables were open and 20 of the 24 seats were taken. Unfortunately for me the table minimum on all was $15 so I just watched a few hands played at each. The S17 BJ tables nearby were also set at $15 or more. I noticed that there now seems to be a de facto method for Free Bets. The dealers are proactively offering to post the lammers without a player request. Hey, that works! Later at night the Free Bet tables were still all $15 with most of the spots being played. Some dealer-22 site bets were also being played. I saw one lucky duck get a same-color-22 on a $50 side bet. The dude got up to do a little victory dance as the dealer measured out the $1000 worth of black chips won.
Monday was a Massachusetts holiday so business was good. Once again the Free Bet tables were $15 minimum as were the S17 regular tables nearby. Once again I decided the H17, $5 tables were a better deal for me even though they are in another casino. On Tuesday morning half of pit 5 was closed either for cleaning or maintenance so only two Free Bet tables were open. Both Free Bet tables were $15 minimum. I thought the dozen or so S17 standard tables nearby with a $10 minimum were a better deal, so that’s where I played. Later in the day the rest of pit 5 opened except one of the Free Bet tables was not staffed. Huh? Free Bet table minimums remained at $15 so I continued to play at the S17, $10 standard tables. On Wednesday morning several pit 5 tables, including two Free Bet tables, were once again out of action for maintenance. The remaining two Free Bet tables were now at a $10 minimum which I would have played had I not been on my way out the door.
So, no Free Bet for me this trip due to the table minimums Mohegan Sun chooses to set most of the time. As mentioned in this thread a $10 Free Bet table minimum is competitive with the always-open $5 H17 tables. $15 minimum Free Bet tables are not attractive to me when surrounded by $10 minimum S17 standard tables. I think Mohegan Sun would give Free Bet a better chance at success with constant $10 minimums, not to mention keeping all the tables open. Most players are not betting the table minimum, so I don’t see where raising the minimum is going to produce that much more revenue. Anyone have an opinion on whether or not Mohegan Sun is giving Free Bet a fair shot?
Great trip report and personal observations BCS !!!
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyI visited Mohegan Sun this past weekend hoping to play Free Bet. After meeting friends for brunch Sunday noon at another Indian-owned casino in the area *cough* I rolled into Mohegan Sun late in the afternoon. All four Free Bet tables were open and 20 of the 24 seats were taken. Unfortunately for me the table minimum on all was $15 so I just watched a few hands played at each. The S17 BJ tables nearby were also set at $15 or more. I noticed that there now seems to be a de facto method for Free Bets. The dealers are proactively offering to post the lammers without a player request. Hey, that works! Later at night the Free Bet tables were still all $15 with most of the spots being played. Some dealer-22 site bets were also being played. I saw one lucky duck get a same-color-22 on a $50 side bet. The dude got up to do a little victory dance as the dealer measured out the $1000 worth of black chips won.
Monday was a Massachusetts holiday so business was good. Once again the Free Bet tables were $15 minimum as were the S17 regular tables nearby. Once again I decided the H17, $5 tables were a better deal for me even though they are in another casino. On Tuesday morning half of pit 5 was closed either for cleaning or maintenance so only two Free Bet tables were open. Both Free Bet tables were $15 minimum. I thought the dozen or so S17 standard tables nearby with a $10 minimum were a better deal, so that’s where I played. Later in the day the rest of pit 5 opened except one of the Free Bet tables was not staffed. Huh? Free Bet table minimums remained at $15 so I continued to play at the S17, $10 standard tables. On Wednesday morning several pit 5 tables, including two Free Bet tables, were once again out of action for maintenance. The remaining two Free Bet tables were now at a $10 minimum which I would have played had I not been on my way out the door.
So, no Free Bet for me this trip due to the table minimums Mohegan Sun chooses to set most of the time. As mentioned in this thread a $10 Free Bet table minimum is competitive with the always-open $5 H17 tables. $15 minimum Free Bet tables are not attractive to me when surrounded by $10 minimum S17 standard tables. I think Mohegan Sun would give Free Bet a better chance at success with constant $10 minimums, not to mention keeping all the tables open. Most players are not betting the table minimum, so I don’t see where raising the minimum is going to produce that much more revenue. Anyone have an opinion on whether or not Mohegan Sun is giving Free Bet a fair shot?
The casino seems to be giving the game a fair shot in that even during slower periods all four tables remain open while some regular blackjack tables are not. There are still no rack cards.
The dealers have settled in and are no longer bad mouthing the game like they were originally and they are dealing faster and better. Hey, it ain't rocket surgery!
I'm no rumor monger but I've got to share this one. Here goes. The house is losing it's shirt because players are exploiting the game by betting table max and getting multiple free splits and doubles. As a result they are considering lowering the table max. This from clueless bosses, floors and dealers. Aren't they the ones the casino goes to first? I'd want a second opinion from the restroom attendant. Actually, if I were trying to promote a game, I'd say the same thing. What better way to get people to sit down.
If the game doesn't show enough profit to suit the casino, I would hope they would tweak it slightly before giving up on it. Take away surrender and or S17 and I doubt many would even notice.
Quote: 1BBHey, it ain't rocket surgery!
What's rocket surgery? :p
I didn't get a chance to play this on my last trip to Vegas. I did take a peek at how it was doing at NYNY (that's where I prefer to play it) and the table was always full or very close to being full.
Quote: ams288What's rocket surgery? :p
I didn't get a chance to play this on my last trip to Vegas. I did take a peek at how it was doing at NYNY (that's where I prefer to play it) and the table was always full or very close to being full.
It's one of those "duh" moments where you mix rocket science with brain surgery like a clueless dealer would do. Sorry dealers, I know you're not all clueless.
Hearing rumors that folks bet higher than they would normally in order to leverage any freebet splits and doubles makes sense. Clearly that's because free splits and doubles obviously improve player odds.
So what part of the game claws back that benefit? Obviously, a push on a dealer 22 does some of it, but is that enough to make the game worthwhile to the casino? We do know that this game is NOT offered because the odds for the player are BETTER than regular blackjack (it IS their house, after all...), so where is the improvement in house edge that there has to be in this game?
The 22 side-bet is strongly in the house's favor, so there's that. But if I don't bet it (and I don't) then the house gains zero advantage there.
But I DO always take the free doubles and splits. I split sixes against a ten. I double a 9 against an ace. These are moves I would NEVER make in a straight blackjack game. I understand that the easily understood rules (always split, always double) are sometimes good moves, but ALWAYS?
In a straight game, we double or split, every time it's appropriate, solely in anticipation of a win - doubling an ace against a six doesn't improve the hand any, it just anticipates the dealer busting on his six. We don't double in a regular game to try and improve a bad hand, we do it because it's a GOOD hand and we want to bring more money onto the table to take advantage of its good-ness. (That's not absolute, I acknowledge. We split eights because a single hand of 16 always sucks, but you get the point...)
What IS my point? Well, either the house benefit of (push on a dealer 22) + (22 side-bet) > player benefit of (free splits + free doubles), thereby making it a game with higher house edge than straight blackjack, or there's some other house-edge improvement in this game that makes the casino want to offer it. Where?
Quote: ams288What's rocket surgery? :p
Super-duper really tricky, a mix of rocket science AND brain surgery hard, like too many complex game rules.
Quote: rhodyBob
So what part of the game claws back that benefit? Obviously, a push on a dealer 22 does some of it, but is that enough to make the game worthwhile to the casino? We do know that this game is NOT offered because the odds for the player are BETTER than regular blackjack (it IS their house, after all...), so where is the improvement in house edge that there has to be in this game?
Remember that the Push 22 is always in play, but you don't always get those splitting and doubling hands. If you get a run of 13s and 15s, or even a streak of 19s and 20s, you're just playing regular blackjack against a Push 22 rule.
Quote: geoffDepending on how the rules are set out free-bet blackjack has a similar HE to regular and in most cases is only slightly worse for the player. That's because the push 22 rule really is worth that much to the HE. Something like 7% iirc.
I think you meant .7%. The Mohegan Sun version of Free Bet has a house edge of 0.58%. Regular blackjack has a house edge of 0.35%. There is the tiniest increase on the 0.35% because that game has unlimited pair splitting. It's nothing to get excited about.
We stopped in this morning and, as I've done dozens of times to no avail, I had my wife ask for a rack card. There are still none on the tables. Lo and behold, after some rummaging around, the floor gave her the last one. Now we feel guilty for taking it.
Two of the Free Bet tables were closed a few mornings this week while surveillance worked on the overhead cameras but all four were working today.
In regular Blackjack they say you need your doubles to win - with FreeBet there's two ways: either few 22s or more freebies, with the additional thrill of the occasional flukey win (e.g. dbl 9 vs T) paying double.Quote: Deucekies...Push 22 is always in play...[vs]...get those splitting and doubling hands...
Quote: 1BBI think you meant .7%. The Mohegan Sun version of Free Bet has a house edge of 0.58%. Regular blackjack has a house edge of 0.35%. There is the tiniest increase on the 0.35% because that game has unlimited pair splitting. It's nothing to get excited about.
We stopped in this morning and, as I've done dozens of times to no avail, I had my wife ask for a rack card. There are still none on the tables. Lo and behold, after some rummaging around, the floor gave her the last one. Now we feel guilty for taking it.
Two of the Free Bet tables were closed a few mornings this week while surveillance worked on the overhead cameras but all four were working today.
By 7% I mean the HE of the push 22 in and of itself. I can't find a source for the number so I could very well be off by a few points. The HE of a typical H17 Freebet blackjack game is .57%
Quote: geoffBy 7% I mean the HE of the push 22 in and of itself. I can't find a source for the number so I could very well be off by a few points. The HE of a typical H17 Freebet blackjack game is .57%
Sorry, I misunderstood that you meant the side bet. The 7% edge is right. Isn't it awful?
Quote: geoffBy 7% I mean the HE of the push 22 in and of itself. I can't find a source for the number so I could very well be off by a few points. The HE of a typical H17 Freebet blackjack game is .57%
You were close enough. 6.91% if you want to be technical. So obviously these free doubles and splits are important to take.
It would be truly sad if Mohegan Sun did this solely due to inept game management. If they have detected some AP methods we don't know about, well then they might be smarter than the lot of us. Otherwise, the rumored lowering of maximum bets might just be a knee-jerk reaction to some unfavorable small-sample statistics. Or, as 1BB theorized, the rumor might just be a rumor planted to drum up enthusiasm for the game.Quote: 1BB[Mohegan Sun is rumored to be] losing it's shirt because players are exploiting the game by betting table max and getting multiple free splits and doubles. As a result they are considering lowering the table max.
The HE makes it a -EV game, the same as all other games offered. The casino may lose money short term, but they will get it back and much more long term. AP aside, betting systems will NOT defeat the house edge long term. It is highly desirable for the casinos to let players place high bets. If Mohegan Sun doesn't believe this, there are plenty of casinos standing by that do. And more on the way.
Detecting and correcting that would would be squarely in the purview of game management, especially for a new game being evaluated. If it is not being done, once again sad, sad sad.Quote: tringlomaneIt is possible that dealer errors are too frequent still? Treating one "Push 22" per hour as a win probably swings the game in the players favor?
Consensus of dealers who had dealt it was that the game was too user-friendly, so long as you avoided the side bet. Players who took the time to learn the game figured that out, so that the dealers said they were paying out a lot, and the smarter players might have killed the goose.
In most I've seen [UK] they've ignored the "22" bet and left the normal choice from {Perfect Pairs, Top 3, 21+3} - so people still play these. The downside with the "22" bet is it is only settled later, and that slows down the dealing, but it does remind dealers about the 22=stand-off.
The game is "user-friendly" but there's still scope to make money as long as dealers remember the 22 rule and the side-bets are popular.
Quote: charliepatrick
The game is "user-friendly" but there's still scope to make money as long as dealers remember the 22 rule and the side-bets are popular.
Yeah I feel like it was management's fault that made the Mohegan game fail from all the previous descriptions I've read about how the game was run.
Quote: rhodyBobI heard that the four Free Bet tables at Mohegan CT are no more. Dealers and players thought that they may have been moved, but nobody knew where, as if the got moved out altogether.
Consensus of dealers who had dealt it was that the game was too user-friendly, so long as you avoided the side bet. Players who took the time to learn the game figured that out, so that the dealers said they were paying out a lot, and the smarter players might have killed the goose.
Not true. I saw the tables with my own eyes not even two hours ago. They are right where they have always been. The game has become quite popular. I'm not privy to the casino's profit and don't want to spread rumors other than I hear the game is doing well. Remember, these are some of the best rules you'll find anywhere for this game. If profits are not where the casino feels they should be, those rules can be tweaked before any thoughts of pulling the game.
Three of the four tables were full and the fourth had only two empty seats. There was a fair amount of green and black action on two of them with one player flat betting 2x$300.
Quote: 1BBNot true. I saw the tables with my own eyes not even two hours ago. They are right where they have always been. The game has become quite popular. I'm not privy to the casino's profit and don't want to spread rumors other than I hear the game is doing well. Remember, these are some of the best rules you'll find anywhere for this game. If profits are not where the casino feels they should be, those rules can be tweaked before any thoughts of pulling the game.
Three of the four tables were full and the fourth had only two empty seats. There was a fair amount of green and black action on two of them with one player flat betting 2x$300.
1BB, are you sure that they were Free Bet tables? I was told that all 4 tables were to be removed due to low hold % which is unfortunate if the game proved popular.
As one poster stated, you can always tweak the game rather than removing it altogether but I don't know the full story so there may be more to it than that.
With the rules being Stand Soft 17, along with allowing 'Surrender', then this gives a house edge of just under 0.5%. Considering that doubles and splits are played correctly by any player that takes free bets then this could result in the overall hold % being reduced further.
If anyone is at Mohegan Sun today then I would be very interested to hear from an eye witness verifying whether the game is back on the floor or not.
Quote: Switch1BB, are you sure that they were Free Bet tables? I was told that all 4 tables were to be removed due to low hold % which is unfortunate if the game proved popular.
As one poster stated, you can always tweak the game rather than removing it altogether but I don't know the full story so there may be more to it than that.
With the rules being Stand Soft 17, along with allowing 'Surrender', then this gives a house edge of just under 0.5%. Considering that doubles and splits are played correctly by any player that takes free bets then this could result in the overall hold % being reduced further.
If anyone is at Mohegan Sun today then I would be very interested to hear from an eye witness verifying whether the game is back on the floor or not.
I'm the eye witness. They are there. It's very unlikely that any changes are made at the end of the week. Most are done on slower days.
Quote: 1BBI'm the eye witness. They are there. It's very unlikely that any changes are made at the end of the week. Most are done on slower days.
My report was based on what I heard on Friday night around 10 PM from two 20-somethings who said they had been there just a few minutes before, not with my own eyes. Kids today...
Switch what is the HE with Free Splits on all pairs except 10's, Free Doubles on two card totals only of 9 -11, Surrender allowed, Stand on Soft 17, re-split all pairs up to four times (Aces limited to one card but can be re-split), surrender allowed and no "paid for" doubling allowed on more than two cards?
I think that version of the game works for the vast majority of average casino players and should produce a hold percentage worth paying the monthly lease to have the game on the floor.
The reason there's an optional version of not being allowed to split 4's might be that historically this wasn't allowed in the UK. Most casinos now allow any split and any 2-card doubles - but technically they can operate under the old rules.
I am slightly surprised given it's in the US ,the game isn't H17.
Quote: ParadigmIf Mohegan Sun isn't running a 1.0%+ HE version of Free Bet, they simply can't complain about a low hold.
Switch what is the HE with Free Splits on all pairs except 10's, Free Doubles on two card totals only of 9 -11, Surrender allowed, Stand on Soft 17, re-split all pairs up to four times (Aces limited to one card but can be re-split), surrender allowed and no "paid for" doubling allowed on more than two cards?
I think that version of the game works for the vast majority of average casino players and should produce a hold percentage worth paying the monthly lease to have the game on the floor.
The above rules are what they are running at Mohegan Sun and the house edge works out at 0.5%. If they take off 'Surrender' or don't allow free split on 4's then this would take the house edge to 0.73% and 0.78% respectively.
I arrived at Mohegan Sun shortly after noon on Friday and went directly to where the Free Bet tables had been set up. The game was gone and tables previously set up for the game had felt painted for regular blackjack. I asked the bit boss if the games were gone or moved. He said "Free Bet blackjack is not longer offered at Mohegan Sun." The tables that had previously been set up for Free Bet did not have the game at 8 pm Friday when I walked through the area on my way to the Wolf Den show. I'm not saying they are not there now. I was not in that area today and now I am no longer at the casino. I am saying the game was not there on Friday from shortly after noon until 8 pm.Quote: rhodyBob
My report was based on what I heard on Friday night around 10 PM from two 20-somethings who said they had been there just a few minutes before, not with my own eyes. Kids today...Quote: 1BBNot true. I saw the tables with my own eyes not even two hours ago. They are right where they have always been. The game has become quite popular. I'm not privy to the casino's profit and don't want to spread rumors other than I hear the game is doing well. Remember, these are some of the best rules you'll find anywhere for this game. If profits are not where the casino feels they should be, those rules can be tweaked before any thoughts of pulling the game.
Three of the four tables were full and the fourth had only two empty seats. There was a fair amount of green and black action on two of them with one player flat betting 2x$300.
Quote: ParadigmWhat rules do you need to put in place to get the HE up to the 1% range? Based on what Wiz has at WoO site, I thought those parameters would do it.
If you Stand on Soft 17 then you would need to remove the 'Surrender' option and not give free splits on 4's to get the house edge to just over 1%.
Quote: ParadigmThat is the version I would put in if I was a DTG. Free splits on 4's & surrender are not deal breaker's for the players and most games in the US are stand on soft 17.
Are you sure that "most games in the USA are stand on soft 17"? I think "in the USA, MORE (MOST) hit on soft 17".
