Basic Strategy Question
4 to 8 Decks
Dealer stands on soft 17
Blackjack pays 3:2
No surrender
Double after splits allowed
Dealer peeks for blackjack
Pretty much the standard rule set for American casino's, my local casino being the Hardrock Casino in Hollywood, FL.
Now to my question...
Let's say I have a hard 13 and the dealer's up card is an 8. In this situation my chart says to hit. So, let's say I hit and draw a 2 making my hand a hard 15. Do I go back to the chart and look what a hard 15 does against the dealer's 8 OR do I make a decision on my own to hit or stand? In other words, it's unclear to me as to whether or not the basic strategy chart only applies to your first two starting cards or if you keep referring to it as you hit. I hope what I'm trying to get across here is understandable. Please advise. Also, please feel free to leave any tips or advice for someone that's still in the learning phase of this game. Thanks.
Quote: atg8796I am a novice beginner blackjack player. I've recently discovered and learned how basic strategy works, but haven't put it into action yet. The rules for the chart I'm reading off of are as follows:
4 to 8 Decks
Dealer stands on soft 17
Blackjack pays 3:2
No surrender
Double after splits allowed
Dealer peeks for blackjack
Pretty much the standard rule set for American casino's, my local casino being the Hardrock Casino in Hollywood, FL.
Now to my question...
Let's say I have a hard 13 and the dealer's up card is an 8. In this situation my chart says to hit. So, let's say I hit and draw a 2 making my hand a hard 15. Do I go back to the chart and look what a hard 15 does against the dealer's 8 OR do I make a decision on my own to hit or stand? In other words, it's unclear to me as to whether or not the basic strategy chart only applies to your first two starting cards or if you keep referring to it as you hit. I hope what I'm trying to get across here is understandable. Please advise. Also, please feel free to leave any tips or advice for someone that's still in the learning phase of this game. Thanks.
Welcome. Yes, go back to the chart. If the dealer has a seven or higher hit until you get a hard 17.
Quote: the Wizard at the BJ game pageI have also had many comments about the advice on a player 16, composed of 3 or more cards, against a 10. As a rule of thumb, the player should stand in that situation. However, that is a basic strategy exception. The game only knows basic strategy.
https://wizardofodds.com/play/blackjack/
And good luck to you.
Quote: atg8796I am a novice beginner blackjack player. I've recently discovered and learned how basic strategy works, but haven't put it into action yet. The rules for the chart I'm reading off of are as follows:
4 to 8 Decks
Dealer stands on soft 17
Blackjack pays 3:2
No surrender
Double after splits allowed
Dealer peeks for blackjack
Pretty much the standard rule set for American casino's, my local casino being the Hardrock Casino in Hollywood, FL.
I would be shocked if Hard Rock stood on soft 17. Most casinos nationwide hit soft 17.
What is the logic behind this exception on a 4 to 8 deck game? Personally if I DRAW 3 cards and wind up with 16 then I'll just give up and stand. Thanks.
Quote: 10DollarBriHard 16 vs. 10, stand if three or more cards
What is the logic behind this exception on a 4 to 8 deck game? Personally if I DRAW 3 cards and wind up with 16 then I'll just give up and stand. Thanks.
Standing on 16 vs 10 is the correct play on any positive running count.
Disregarding all other cards out (because as a BS player, youre not counting them), if you have a 3-card 16 vs a dealer 10, the majority of the time it will be a positive running count.
Quote: IbeatyouracesBecause you have most likely consumed a small card to make a three card 16 therefore making standing a little better than hitting.
Yes that would make sense to me on a single or even a double deck game but seems to me it wouldn't have a measurable effect on 4 to 8 decks especially early in the shoe. Also what if the third card drawn is an ace?
Basic strategy is designed to basically take your money.....hit whenever, stand when the mood strikes. The result is the same.....you lose.Quote: 10DollarBriYes that would make sense to me on a single or even a double deck game but seems to me it wouldn't have a measurable effect on 4 to 8 decks especially early in the shoe. Also what if the third card drawn is an ace?
Quote: treetopbuddyBasic strategy is designed to basically take your money.....hit whenever, stand when the mood strikes. The result is the same.....you lose.
Hey, I know you.......You're that guy that plays at my table and wags his finger at me when I split 4's and hit soft 18. Especially when I take the dealers 'bust' card ;)
16 v a 10 is a very close question anyway. Take one 3-4-5 out of the shoe (put it in your hand getting a 16), and that's enough to change the analysis.
Quote: treetopbuddyBasic strategy is designed to basically take your money.....hit whenever, stand when the mood strikes. The result is the same.....you lose.
Do you seriously wonder why your behavior here is characterized as troll-like as you lament in your AP Blackjack thread? Look at the above statement you made then look at the site you posted it on. This is not a garden variety gambling site, many of the members here are serious math geeks, pretty much all of them are more informed than the average casino player. This is probably the wrong place to espouse your theories on the shortcomings of basic strategy.
Besides, the point of the thread was not to gather opinions on the effectiveness of basic strategy, it was a question about how to use the chart. Your reply did nothing but crap up the thread with your negative vibe.
Quote: sodawaterStanding on 16 vs 10 is the correct play on any positive running count.
Disregarding all other cards out (because as a BS player, youre not counting them), if you have a 3-card 16 vs a dealer 10, the majority of the time it will be a positive running count.
Also with a 2-card 16 vs. 10 (either 9-7 or 10-6) you'd have a slightly negative count at that point (assuming it's the first hand after the shuffle).
MonkeyMonkey, sorry for posting the idea that basic strategy will take your money just like any other strategy, in the wrong thread? I'm also sorry that I put a negative vibe on the thread. I'm simply parroting what has has been deliniated over and over, you can't beat a -EV game. Really, was my posting that disruptive? I'm guessing those that read it couldn't care less. What's it like being a hall monitor?Quote: MonkeyMonkeyDo you seriously wonder why your behavior here is characterized as troll-like as you lament in your AP Blackjack thread? Look at the above statement you made then look at the site you posted it on. This is not a garden variety gambling site, many of the members here are serious math geeks, pretty much all of them are more informed than the average casino player. This is probably the wrong place to espouse your theories on the shortcomings of basic strategy.
Besides, the point of the thread was not to gather opinions on the effectiveness of basic strategy, it was a question about how to use the chart. Your reply did nothing but crap up the thread with your negative vibe.
Quote: 10DollarBriHard 16 vs. 10, stand if three or more cards
What is the logic behind this exception on a 4 to 8 deck game? Personally if I DRAW 3 cards and wind up with 16 then I'll just give up and stand. Thanks.
The best play of 16 v 10 is surrender if available.
The difference in expected value of hitting v standing a 16 vs a 10 is so small (like .2% I think) that it's best to rely on some kind of count to help you. If you are not counting If you see a bunch of small cards around your 16, then you should stand because (by only what you see) a large card is more likely. If you see a bunch of big cards around your 16, then hitting is a decent choice because a small card is more likely.
Counting of course (10s vs 2-5s) is of course your best option because you will know exactly what the ratio of small cards to big ones are.
Quote: treetopbuddyMonkeyMonkey, sorry for posting the idea that basic strategy will take your money just like any other strategy, in the wrong thread? I'm also sorry that I put a negative vibe on the thread. I'm simply parroting what has has been deliniated over and over, you can't beat a -EV game. Really, was my posting that disruptive? I'm guessing those that read it couldn't care less. What's it like being a hall monitor?Quote: MonkeyMonkeyDo you seriously wonder why your behavior here is characterized as troll-like as you lament in your AP Blackjack thread? Look at the above statement you made then look at the site you posted it on. This is not a garden variety gambling site, many of the members here are serious math geeks, pretty much all of them are more informed than the average casino player. This is probably the wrong place to espouse your theories on the shortcomings of basic strategy.
Besides, the point of the thread was not to gather opinions on the effectiveness of basic strategy, it was a question about how to use the chart. Your reply did nothing but crap up the thread with your negative vibe.
Yes, basic strategy will take your money but not quite like any other strategy. It won't take as much which is why it is sometimes called the lose less strategy. To anyone who doesn't know it cold just print a copy and bring it to the table. Be sure it's for the game that you are playing.
right on....1BBQuote: 1BBQuote: treetopbuddyMonkeyMonkey, sorry for posting the idea that basic strategy will take your money just like any other strategy, in the wrong thread? I'm also sorry that I put a negative vibe on the thread. I'm simply parroting what has has been deliniated over and over, you can't beat a -EV game. Really, was my posting that disruptive? I'm guessing those that read it couldn't care less. What's it like being a hall monitor?Quote: MonkeyMonkeyDo you seriously wonder why your behavior here is characterized as troll-like as you lament in your AP Blackjack thread? Look at the above statement you made then look at the site you posted it on. This is not a garden variety gambling site, many of the members here are serious math geeks, pretty much all of them are more informed than the average casino player. This is probably the wrong place to espouse your theories on the shortcomings of basic strategy.
Besides, the point of the thread was not to gather opinions on the effectiveness of basic strategy, it was a question about how to use the chart. Your reply did nothing but crap up the thread with your negative vibe.
Yes, basic strategy will take your money but not quite like any other strategy. It won't take as much which is why it is sometimes called the lose less strategy. To anyone who doesn't know it cold just print a copy and bring it to the table. Be sure it's for the game that you are playing.
Also, say I have 10-5 and draw an ace for 16 should I hit or stand?
Quote: 10DollarBriDoes the 3-card exception apply to a dealer 7-8-9 or ace?
Also, say I have 10-5 and draw an ace for 16 should I hit or stand?
No, the rule does not apply to other upcards (you'd stand in those cases only if you were counting and the count was high enough for the index to call for altering your play).
In the example you gave (10+5+A), assuming it's against a 10 and you have no other knowledge of the remaining composition, that would be a case where it's better to stand. (The order of your cards don't matter, so if you started with A-5 and got a 10 when you first hit the same rule applies.)
ETA: Ibeatyouraces posted a similar reply while I made my post.
Quote: IbeatyouracesA trickier one is a hand where you hit A,7 and pull an 8 to make a multi-card 16 vs 10.
Yeah. Hit the 18, then stand on 16. That will make a ploppy's head explode.
Quote: treetopbuddyMonkeyMonkey, sorry for posting the idea that basic strategy will take your money just like any other strategy, in the wrong thread?
Why do you pose that statement as a question? Is English your second language?
Quote: treetopbuddyI'm also sorry that I put a negative vibe on the thread. I'm simply parroting what has has been deliniated over and over, you can't beat a -EV game.
Sure you can. Card counting and hole carding are just two ways to do it, but you'll likely need basic strategy in conjunction with either approach.
Quote: treetopbuddy
Really, was my posting that disruptive? I'm guessing those that read it couldn't care less.
It was unhelpful enough that I put two and two together: you making an unnecessary and negative post combined with your bemoaning others pegging you as a troll.
Quote: treetopbuddyWhat's it like being a hall monitor?
So you also go for personal attacks when you're called out for your behavior. Nice. You'll note it was you, not anyone else, that moaned about your posting being trolling. My point was simply if you do not want to be perceived that way you can easily accomplish the feat by ceasing to post in a troll-like way.
