Should I abandon Hi Lo

I know this has been asked before. I've google this question.

I have been using hi lo for the past few months. Should I look for a higher level counting system? Like Zen, Hi opt II, etc.

Quote: jjjoooggg

I know this has been asked before. I've google this question.

I have been using hi lo for the past few months. Should I look for a higher level counting system? Like Zen, Hi opt II, etc.

Level 2 systems come with some efficiency gains that are usually not worth the effort given the added complexity. I have never tried a level 2 count, but I'm relatively certain I would not be able to keep the count quickly enough. The added errors would wipe out any additional efficiency.

If you're considering a switch, pick one of the unbalanced systems and practice it at home. If you do well with the level 2 tags and think you can do it, try it in a casino with a smaller unit size than usual and make sure you are competent. If you are competent with the level 2 system then go for it. Many pros never use anything other than Hi-Lo. I personally don't even use a balanced count, but I'm just a hobbyist.

Also, this chart by Norm W (who makes the best blackjack software out there) can be informative. The "Ease" column is subjective, but you'll notice both of your prospective count systems score a 4/10 on the ease scale, while Hi-Lo gets a 6. K-O gets the easiest score with a 7.5, and it's betting correlation is still excellent, with reasonable playing efficiency and insurance correlation.

I find that a lot of new counters will run into a bad streak of negative variance and rush to change something about their game. There may be things you need to change: more practice so you make fewer errors and better game selection come to mind as two things that can be remedied rather quickly. If you are competent and you know it, best not to change counting systems flippantly. It takes a lot of work to de-program your brain of the old tags and re-learn the new ones.

Thanks for the info.

Under ideal circumstances, I'd be playing after midnight alone at the table. Then it wouldn't be too difficult to use a level 2 with a tired dealer playing by myself or one other person.

Quote: jjjoooggg

Thanks for the info.

Under ideal circumstances, I'd be playing after midnight alone at the table. Then it wouldn't be too difficult to use a level 2 with a tired dealer playing by myself or one other person.

Rarely will you be playing under ideal circumstances. You should plan for realistic circumstances. Also, you should seek out the fastest dealers with whom you can keep up. I haven't run the math on this, but I suspect you'd do better with a basic level 1 count and a fast dealer than a level 2 count with a slow dealer. The level 2 count will get you a tiny bit more money per hand, but the fast dealer will get you many more hands. There's a breaking point in there somewhere.

Quote: jjjoooggg

I know this has been asked before. I've google this question.

I have been using hi lo for the past few months. Should I look for a higher level counting system? Like Zen, Hi opt II, etc.

Pitch games or shoes?

Your other thread asks if counting works and indicates that you're afraid to continue counting due to mostly-irrelevant results gained from a microscopic sample size. I intend no disrespect whatsoever with my comment, but I strongly suggest you build a stronger foundation of counting theory and the principles behind advantage play in general before you worry about stuff like changing to a level-2 system. The latter step will have little to no appreciable affect on your win rate, but the former will absolutely decide whether your win rate consists of black numbers or red ones.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Also, you should seek out the fastest dealers with whom you can keep up. I haven't run the math on this, but I suspect you'd do better with a basic level 1 count and a fast dealer than a level 2 count with a slow dealer. The level 2 count will get you a tiny bit more money per hand, but the fast dealer will get you many more hands. There's a breaking point in there somewhere.

This. The Level 2 count will only increase your theoretical win rate by a small amount. Your error frequency will almost certainly go up, offsetting the gain.

Keep HI-LO, find a fast dealer you can keep up with, and play until you are winning. The Hi-Lo count is not your problem.

Double deck or six deck. Single deck with 3/2 is not easy to find.

Really where ? If they do have it's no DAS, as in El cortez .

Single deck game , heads up w/ dealer- you get 3 hands/shuffle.

1 + players- 1 hand/shuffle .

maybe 2 + players , as no more than 22.23.24 cards out . 3 cards per hand avg. , 2.7 to be exact