Wupper
Wupper
Joined: May 5, 2012
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June 13th, 2012 at 2:47:19 PM permalink
Current blackjack conditions at Wheeling Island Casino (WV)

Only two tables open (midweek, mid-day), $10/$500max, 6 decks, H17, DOA, DAS, Late Surrender, blackjack 3:2, penetration about 2/3's.

Rather rough looking crowd- tattoos easily outnumber teeth (not that I have anything against tattoos), lots of smokers, and jeans shorts.

Also, only 2x odds at the craps tables.
Mission146
Mission146
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June 13th, 2012 at 5:59:04 PM permalink
You may also only resplit to three hands.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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June 13th, 2012 at 7:12:38 PM permalink
Quote: Wupper

Also, only 2x odds at the craps tables.



I've never seen a casino change their odds offered as much. They have, in my time going there, offered 10x odds, then 3-4-5x odds, then 10x odds again. Now it's 2x odds?? What are they going to do when Hollywood Columbus opens?
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Mission146
Mission146
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June 13th, 2012 at 7:19:23 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

I've never seen a casino change their odds offered as much. They have, in my time going there, offered 10x odds, then 3-4-5x odds, then 10x odds again. Now it's 2x odds?? What are they going to do when Hollywood Columbus opens?



File bankruptcy?
Vultures can't be choosers.
Mission146
Mission146
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June 13th, 2012 at 7:26:29 PM permalink
Deleted.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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June 13th, 2012 at 7:37:00 PM permalink
Quote: PR ARTICLE

Gaming revenues were $20.1 million for the quarter, an increase of $5.3 million or 36% over the same quarter last year. The increase was due primarily to an expansion of gaming operations, including an increase in the number of slot machines from 1,295 to 1,530.



That was in 2002-2003. I just saw that myself, which is probably why you deleted the last post.

Wheeling CURRENTLY has about a 2 hour radius market, including Columbus OH, West Virginia's mid-panhandle and extreme Western PA. I still maintain once Hollywood Columbus opens by the end of the year, the market will dry up and Wheeling Island will have to do something to attract business. They may already be losing business to Scioto Downs, though SD doesn't have table games, so they're okay there.

To me, the future of Wheeling is pretty bleak. Delaware Downs isn't too worried, as they have a good foothold in the DE market, but I'm guessing if they could find a buyer in the next 6 months, they'd be selling it off as fast as they could. Not that there would be any interest in it, but I always felt it would make a perfect Isle of Capri, and the decor would require little changing.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Mission146
Mission146
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June 13th, 2012 at 8:25:34 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

That was in 2002-2003. I just saw that myself, which is probably why you deleted the last post.

Wheeling CURRENTLY has about a 2 hour radius market, including Columbus OH, West Virginia's mid-panhandle and extreme Western PA. I still maintain once Hollywood Columbus opens by the end of the year, the market will dry up and Wheeling Island will have to do something to attract business. They may already be losing business to Scioto Downs, though SD doesn't have table games, so they're okay there.

To me, the future of Wheeling is pretty bleak. Delaware Downs isn't too worried, as they have a good foothold in the DE market, but I'm guessing if they could find a buyer in the next 6 months, they'd be selling it off as fast as they could. Not that there would be any interest in it, but I always felt it would make a perfect Isle of Capri, and the decor would require little changing.



That's exactly why I deleted the last post! I don't know why, but I read it as 2012...or maybe just assumed. I have Google set to only deliver search results to me for this year, so it's possible I am not logged into GMail atm, or something.

I don't know what they're going to do to attract business. It's particularly tough for them because the location of the casino is horrible. The surrounding area (aside from the Island) is fantastic, but nobody really knows/cares anything about it. We have Oglebay Park which has not one, but two, professional-level golf courses, another course besides that and a Par-3. Discluding Par-3's, there are probably at least ten courses within a thirty-mile range of Oglebay. If I thought about it, I could give you an exact number, but I always play at Fairway 4, so I've not thought about it. There are at least eight, other than Oglebay.

We also have some of the best dining in the Midwest, and cheap, but nobody knows it!!! Great Italian food to be had around here...

I'm just basing this on my time spent at Wheeling Island, which is a significant amount of time, but if they are losing slots business to Scioto Downs, then that's going to be significant, because there never seems to be too many people at the tables. They have many buses come in, from where I don''t know, but those are mostly slots players, so if those buses were to switch to Scioto...

I still need to go down to Scioto Downs, myself, but I need to pull at least $200 from my bankroll (double-or-nothing) to make it worth a two-hour drive. The problem with that is that losing $200 in one day would upset me and I would no longer have fun. I can lose $50, no problem, and I'll still have had fun with it.

If Wheeling Island were to become an Isle of Capri, I would never go back. I've hated every Isle of Capri I have ever been to. The one in Kansas City is awful in just about every respect. I've heard that one called, "Isle of debris," and I have dubbed it, "Isle of Crap-py."

I'm sorry if I have gone too far off-track. Wheeling Island is now sandwiched between two States that have or will have full casinos almost directly off of I-70. The first strike is that they lost their Pittsburgh/Washington/Western PA business to The Meadows and The Rivers, the latter of which is directly in Pittsburgh. The second strike against them is the Blackjack there sucks now. The third strike against them is that $5.00 Table Minimums are apparently completely unacceptable, even when there is nobody at the place. Hollywood Casino in Columbus is going to be strike four.

They were out before. Now, they are even out under pee-wee league rules.

Their only chance is lower table minimums, better comps (they really don't care about me one way or another anymore, but they used to, and I bet just as much) and the slots are going to have to become more loose. I'm surprised they even survived the competition of Mountaineer, which is world-class compared to the Island...and Mountaineer is a poorly-located dump.

It's really sad because just five years ago the only slots that you could play were the ones that just happened to have nobody sitting there...this was even true late at night sometimes.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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June 13th, 2012 at 9:10:37 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I'm just basing this on my time spent at Wheeling Island, which is a significant amount of time, but if they are losing slots business to Scioto Downs, then that's going to be significant, because there never seems to be too many people at the tables. They have many buses come in, from where I don''t know, but those are mostly slots players, so if those buses were to switch to Scioto...



The bus traffic will be non-existent once Hollywood Columbus opens up, but even now you'll be hard pressed to convince a group of people to journey out to Wheeling Island unless they only want to watch greyhound races.

Quote: Mission146

I still need to go down to Scioto Downs, myself, but I need to pull at least $200 from my bankroll (double-or-nothing) to make it worth a two-hour drive. The problem with that is that losing $200 in one day would upset me and I would no longer have fun. I can lose $50, no problem, and I'll still have had fun with it.



I guess they do have Video Poker, so I'll make my way down there at some point. I'm a table games player mostly, so I have no real reason to get out there, but soon..

Quote: Mission146

If Wheeling Island were to become an Isle of Capri, I would never go back. I've hated every Isle of Capri I have ever been to. The one in Kansas City is awful in just about every respect. I've heard that one called, "Isle of debris," and I have dubbed it, "Isle of Crap-py."



IoC KC isn't as bad as everybody makes it out to be. They have a decent selection of not so horrible games, a relatively good staff and a shared player's club program. It's kind of sketchy compared to the other KC properties, I agree, and it's considerably smaller than all the others, but I would make the journey there every once in a while, and I rather enjoyed it.

As far as other IoC properties, they are okay. None of them are dives (even Boonville) and Rhythm City in Davenport is kind of a hidden gem. If they could have ever really established themselves as a player in a decent market, they might have been what Penn National is. Unfortunately, they chose small markets where they were the big fish, so in larger markets, they tended to flop around aimlessly.

Quote: Mission146

The third strike against them is that $5.00 Table Minimums are apparently completely unacceptable, even when there is nobody at the place.



I haven't figured that one out either. Even The Meadows and Rivers offers $5 table minimums, sometimes on Blackjack. Wheeling Island wavered on table mins too... they used to offer a FANTASTIC DD game, (S17, Surrender and 75% penetration face up) at $5. Problem was you couldn't get a seat on the game. Then they would offer the same game, 6-decks, with the lowest minimum at $25. I could never figure out why they would do that. The poker variants are nearly always $10 games. Mountaineer and Tri-State seem to have better control on what their customers want.

Quote: Mission146

Hollywood Casino in Columbus is going to be strike four.



This will be the end of the road. Operating expenses will get to be too high for a fledgling casino with little draw outside a 20 mile radius. And Hollywood Columbus will be nice... very nice.

Quote: Mission146

Their only chance is lower table minimums, better comps (they really don't care about me one way or another anymore, but they used to, and I bet just as much) and the slots are going to have to become more loose. I'm surprised they even survived the competition of Mountaineer, which is world-class compared to the Island...and Mountaineer is a poorly-located dump.



The end came when the poker room shuttered to The Meadows. Granted, a lot of the players were coming from PA, but WI didn't even put up a fight. That's how this entire property behaves: no fight for customers. I agree lower table minimums would be a draw, even to the people in Columbus, but they haven't done it yet, so why would they do it then? I've got to believe more cuts will be on the way until it folds under the weight of its problems.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Mission146
Mission146
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June 13th, 2012 at 9:58:28 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

The bus traffic will be non-existent once Hollywood Columbus opens up, but even now you'll be hard pressed to convince a group of people to journey out to Wheeling Island unless they only want to watch greyhound races.



I wouldn't go quite that far. I was there in the afternoon one day a couple weeks ago, and there was still substantial bus traffic. I agree that it will be game over for that once Hollywood opens up, but they still do pretty well on bus traffic right now.


Quote:

I guess they do have Video Poker, so I'll make my way down there at some point. I'm a table games player mostly, so I have no real reason to get out there, but soon..



Let me know if you do. I'm not completely adverse to VP, so maybe the higher ER would keep $50-$100 alive reasonably long enough to make it worth the trip. I would say that meeting someone from the Board would probably make it worth it, as well. I usually go to the casino alone, but generally like to have company out of town.

I would go back home regardless, because it's only two hours, but if you want a really great discounted hotel rate if you would like to stay in Columbus, then all you need do is PM me. I'll set you up between $35-$55 depending on your expectations of the hotel. The normal price range for the hotels we'd be talking about are $70-$125.

Quote:

IoC KC isn't as bad as everybody makes it out to be. They have a decent selection of not so horrible games, a relatively good staff and a shared player's club program. It's kind of sketchy compared to the other KC properties, I agree, and it's considerably smaller than all the others, but I would make the journey there every once in a while, and I rather enjoyed it.



I respectfully disagree. I used to live in KC and I gave that place chance after chance. The Blackjack Minimums are usually $5, but then it's always a full table and the next table up has minimums of $25. This was years ago, so that could be wrong today. The place hadn't been renovated since the Carter Administration, I don't think. The tables were all too close together.

The customer service was pretty good, I'll give them that. I didn't realize it was a shared Player's Club program.

Quote:

As far as other IoC properties, they are okay. None of them are dives (even Boonville) and Rhythm City in Davenport is kind of a hidden gem. If they could have ever really established themselves as a player in a decent market, they might have been what Penn National is. Unfortunately, they chose small markets where they were the big fish, so in larger markets, they tended to flop around aimlessly.



I agree with the second part. I have no opinion on the first part as the other IoC's I've been to were Lake Charles and Pompano Park, I was impressed with neither.

I suppose IoC in Kansas City may not have been as bad as I made it out to be, but that Harrah's is incredible, so that's what they are getting compared to.


Quote:

I haven't figured that one out either. Even The Meadows and Rivers offers $5 table minimums, sometimes on Blackjack. Wheeling Island wavered on table mins too... they used to offer a FANTASTIC DD game, (S17, Surrender and 75% penetration face up) at $5. Problem was you couldn't get a seat on the game. Then they would offer the same game, 6-decks, with the lowest minimum at $25. I could never figure out why they would do that. The poker variants are nearly always $10 games. Mountaineer and Tri-State seem to have better control on what their customers want.



It used to be that all I had to do was ask if I was the only one anywhere near the tables and they would say yes about 75% of the time. I hardly even bother to ask, anymore, even if I am the only one there, my, 'Yes,' rate is about 10%.

The Blackjack there used to be incredible. I certainly know how to count, but I'm not a professional or AP, so I wasn't trying to make my living there. I'd play the Table Minimums at $5.00 and my spread was usually $5-$15 depending on the favorability of the count. I played that the same way I do the Slots, double-or-bust, except I play Slots at 150% or bust so mainly I just wanted to stay at the table longer is why I would count.

I never figured that one out, either, but as you see that was one of my chief complaints with IoC-Kansas City. $5.00 minimums, one table, then $25 if that table was full. I never had a problem getting a seat at WI, but that probably has more to do with what time I go than anything.


Quote:

This will be the end of the road. Operating expenses will get to be too high for a fledgling casino with little draw outside a 20 mile radius. And Hollywood Columbus will be nice... very nice.



I'm looking forward to it, but I have heard most Hollywood's have pretty tight slots to the extent that you will usually either see a really good payout or a whole lot of nothing. That's not my opinion, just what I have heard second-hand. I really enjoy slots with frequent low-middle payouts, for whatever reason. I obviously like to win money on the slots, but sometimes it's more fun to play for three hours and merely double than it is to triple (and leave) after fifteen minutes.


Quote:

The end came when the poker room shuttered to The Meadows. Granted, a lot of the players were coming from PA, but WI didn't even put up a fight. That's how this entire property behaves: no fight for customers. I agree lower table minimums would be a draw, even to the people in Columbus, but they haven't done it yet, so why would they do it then? I've got to believe more cuts will be on the way until it folds under the weight of its problems.



I agree with you 100%!!! They have pretty much no concern for whether or not their players stay or go. I call there every now and again just to see how many tables they have going on poker (there are almost NEVER any when I am there) and the results are pretty abyssmal. I don't think they've ever cared about the Poker Players very much, but prior to The Meadows, they didn't have to. When they had to, they still didn't!

I agree with you again. I don't see lower minimums coming any time soon. If they won't do it for one guy at 3a.m. when the tables are completely barren (along with most of the rest of the casino) just to get their bored-as-Hell dealer some action, then why would they do it even in the face or more competition. They apparently aren't too worried about The Meadows taking away the BJ and Poker business, so why worry about Hollywood?

The sad thing is quite a few of the dealers recognize me. They know me to be a generous tipper, even when I lose. They are going to get compensated for these reduced minimums, but the casino won't cater to me when I am LITERALLY their ONLY customer, at least, as far as the tables go...
Vultures can't be choosers.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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June 13th, 2012 at 10:07:19 PM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul


Wheeling CURRENTLY has about a 2 hour radius market, including Columbus OH, West Virginia's mid-panhandle and extreme Western PA. I still maintain once Hollywood Columbus opens by the end of the year, the market will dry up and Wheeling Island will have to do something to attract business. They may already be losing business to Scioto Downs, though SD doesn't have table games, so they're okay there.



Last time I dealt at a fundraiser down there I had some exec from the WV Lottery at my table. The state lottery regulates the casinos there, not sure how much they actually run the concession. He asked me where I dealt "for real" and I told him that was as real as it got, and that a few years back I considered learning to deal at Wheeling. He then told me they lost somewhere near 75% of their business at both Wheeling and Mountaineer. As anyone knew would happen, PA ripped the heart right out of their business.

I don't know what I would suggest to them. Go Christie and do sports betting, telling the Feds to shove their unconstitutional ban on 46 states on Michelle's vegetible garden. That might get some trade, but even if they allowed it not near enough. People won't even go from Wynn to Freemont Street for better rules, and PA still has pretty good BJ rules anyways. The casino was built to save the racetrack so the other way around will do nothing.

Until they get some reason to travel there, no normal person in W-PA is going to make the trip. I don't see them legalizing brothels, though that would do a booming business with all the roustabouts and roughnecks fracking gas wells nearby alone.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing

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