th el cortez/single deck
June 9th, 2012 at 6:43:20 PM
permalink
anyone ever play this? how is that place?
June 9th, 2012 at 6:50:10 PM
permalink
Quote: kitties666anyone ever play this? how is that place?
Nearly all their BJ tables are now Single Deck, dealt from a shoe on a low table. Minimums are typically $5, we played there for WoVCon... I guess one of us in the group got backed off, though I was flat betting $10 since I was just having a good time with my musical theater trivia.
As far as atmosphere, it's not as divey as people will lead you to believe. I wouldn't be there at odd hours, but during the day I felt perfectly safe. Even Doc's wife who was anti-El Cortez rather enjoyed herself. It's a pretty friendly place, but it does feel old and rundown.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
June 9th, 2012 at 6:57:05 PM
permalink
The game is one of the better in town. Many people mention they have a lot of break in dealers this may work for you or against you. The El Cortez is one of the older properties in town. It has been on an upswing. The clientele is a mix of older folks who have been visiting for decades, younger folk who are looking for decent gaming and various local oddballs. It is perfectly safe. The area was very run down but in the last several years it has gone way uphill. What was empty store fronts 5 years ago are a lot of trendy bars. Zappos founder is a big supporter of the area and is putting a good amount of money into the area. Now its a hipster haven.
The rooms are not bad. The cafe is ok nothing special and the steakhouse is good. Many better steakhouses in town but prices are very reasonable. If you play use your card. Comps and offers come easy.
The rooms are not bad. The cafe is ok nothing special and the steakhouse is good. Many better steakhouses in town but prices are very reasonable. If you play use your card. Comps and offers come easy.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
June 9th, 2012 at 7:10:35 PM
permalink
Quote: TiltpoulI guess one of us in the group got backed off,
Really? Who? Granted I was playing craps, PGP and looking around, but this is the first I hear of it.
Quote:As far as atmosphere, it's not as divey as people will lead you to believe. I wouldn't be there at odd hours, but during the day I felt perfectly safe.
I agree. But I still don't trust the area alone and after dark.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 9th, 2012 at 7:20:46 PM
permalink
Everyone has different comfort levels and I don't dispute Nareed but by and large the area now referred to east Fremont before 4 am feels safer than under the canopy at the same time. The good part about the bars that have opened is most have security in front of the building. But as always an ounce of prevention.
Nareed next WOVcon I'm taking you on a late nite dive tour. Wear flats.
Nareed next WOVcon I'm taking you on a late nite dive tour. Wear flats.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
June 9th, 2012 at 7:31:40 PM
permalink
Quote: Wavy70Nareed next WOVcon I'm taking you on a late nite dive tour. Wear flats.
I always wear flats in Vegas.
But you'll need to bring a bludgeon, chloroform and perhaps some rope ;)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 9th, 2012 at 7:46:53 PM
permalink
Quote: Nareed
But you'll need to bring a bludgeon, chloroform and perhaps some rope ;)
Sounds like a kinky time!
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
June 9th, 2012 at 7:51:34 PM
permalink
Quote: Wavy70Sounds like a kinky time!
I suppose it's good of you to take it like that ;)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 9th, 2012 at 9:38:45 PM
permalink
also, how about tropicana? i'm thinking about coming out...i can get airfare & a room cheaper than the room alone @ foxwoods or mohegan. they want 5 or 600 bucks for rooms for any of the dates i have available. unreal...
June 9th, 2012 at 9:48:40 PM
permalink
Quote: kitties666also, how about tropicana? i'm thinking about coming out...i can get airfare & a room cheaper than the room alone @ foxwoods or mohegan. they want 5 or 600 bucks for rooms for any of the dates i have available. unreal...
Can't give you any Trop help but I live in CT and my wife and I can spend a week in LV for what MSun charges for a night. Someday they might understand why II go there maybe 4 nights a year and to Vegas for about 3 weeks.
EDIT: That and the insane drink rules. 6oz of beer every 20 min and no drinks after 1:30 am
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
June 9th, 2012 at 9:59:25 PM
permalink
Quote: Wavy70Can't give you any Trop help but I live in CT and my wife and I can spend a week in LV for what MSun charges for a night. Someday they might understand why II go there maybe 4 nights a year and to Vegas for about 3 weeks.
So true. I'm working in Boston so I can only go out to Mohegan on the weekends. If you think I'm dropping 300+ on a room you are insane. Foxwoods has much more reasonable room offers, but they hit on Soft 17 now which sucks, unless you are playing black at certain tables. Mohegan can get away with those prices because: 1. They can comp their best customers 2. There are rich people coming up from the city. Still ridiculous and irritating.
June 10th, 2012 at 5:57:26 AM
permalink
Quote: Wavy70EDIT: That and the insane drink rules. 6oz of beer every 20 min and no drinks after 1:30 am
Where in the ms do they have a 20 minute rule for beer?
IF YOU PLAY "PLAY TO WIN"
June 10th, 2012 at 6:16:22 AM
permalink
Quote: winmonkeyspit3. Mohegan can get away with those prices because: 1. They can comp their best customers 2. There are rich people coming up from the city. Still ridiculous and irritating.
So true last 1/4 ending 3/31/12 hotel occupancy rate 97%.
They have 4 tiers of players
Regular players card
Wolf card
Sagamore card
Sachem card
I have a sagamore card which gets sun -thur free, fri$79-$229 sat 119-209.
IF YOU PLAY "PLAY TO WIN"
June 10th, 2012 at 7:00:14 AM
permalink
Quote: kitties666anyone ever play this? how is that place?
Very sweaty. This place has so many back off stories that I don't bother telling mine. I've seen a 1-4 spread get backed off and I've seen non-counters backed off simply for winning,
By all means check it out and consider any back off a rite of passage.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
June 10th, 2012 at 7:15:08 AM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 10th, 2012 at 7:19:47 AM
permalink
Quote: only1choiceSo true last 1/4 ending 3/31/12 hotel occupancy rate 97%.
They have 4 tiers of players
Regular players card
Wolf card
Sagamore card
Sachem card
I have a sagamore card which gets sun -thur free, fri$79-$229 sat 119-209.
Even so, I bet a fraction of what you do and I get free rooms every night except Saturday at my home casino, being on the basic players card level. CT is just such a lucrative place for a casino, splitting Boston and NYC, and CT is a pretty affluent state in its own right. Mohegan can do whatever they want and people will still come.
June 10th, 2012 at 7:22:41 AM
permalink
Quote: 1BBVery sweaty. This place has so many back off stories that I don't bother telling mine. I've seen a 1-4 spread get backed off and I've seen non-counters backed off simply for winning,
By all means check it out and consider any back off a rite of passage.
If you have any skill you might get backed off. I've heard they just come up to you and say no more blackjack. It makes sense really. You have to give them some credit for offering low stakes games with great odds. They are willing to expose themselves more to counters than anyone else in Vegas will, so of course they are going to back off some players.
June 10th, 2012 at 7:27:01 AM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 10th, 2012 at 7:29:38 AM
permalink
Quote: IbeatyouracesIts funny too, most of us know their reputation and still go there anyway.
Well the backoff just doesn't really mean anything. Aside from being embarassing, what's the big deal? Just go shoot $3 craps 2 tables over. Take a shot at them and if they catch you move along. You aren't going to find games this good anywhere else.
June 10th, 2012 at 7:36:04 AM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 10th, 2012 at 8:45:10 AM
permalink
I play there twice a year/4-5 days a trip. I play 2 hands of $10 or $15, spread 1-3 occasionally 1-5. Never had any heat and they have been generous with comps. They have some good pit bosses in Mike and Connie. They both know what is going on at all times. I play at the table with my wife (only $5 bettor) and we play many, many hours. Luckily I can count and hold a good conversation at the table with dealers/bosses and my wife talks a lot (to every one) while we are playing and because of that we never get heat.
Personally I think the newbie dealers there are an advantage for me.
They beat me like a drum the last trip but that can happen. Seemed to have an extraordinary amount of stiffs, especially 12s, that all seemed to break. My wife even commented on it. $850 winnings on 50 cent VP kept me from being a big loser. Lost $100.
The only bad thing is at the single deck table, you can't double after splitting. The double deck game will let you double after split. But good penetration and fast play are positives.
They do hit soft 17 and unfortunately there is no surrender but not many places do allow it.
It's not a classy place but they are friendly and I highly recommend it.
Personally I think the newbie dealers there are an advantage for me.
They beat me like a drum the last trip but that can happen. Seemed to have an extraordinary amount of stiffs, especially 12s, that all seemed to break. My wife even commented on it. $850 winnings on 50 cent VP kept me from being a big loser. Lost $100.
The only bad thing is at the single deck table, you can't double after splitting. The double deck game will let you double after split. But good penetration and fast play are positives.
They do hit soft 17 and unfortunately there is no surrender but not many places do allow it.
It's not a classy place but they are friendly and I highly recommend it.
June 10th, 2012 at 10:17:16 AM
permalink
Older white, male pit guy named Joe (white/grey hair) is the worst. He will back you off if you win a hundred bucks at a $25 table. lol I have seen him back players off that weren't counting. Kind of sad. Older Asian female pit ladies are much more tolerant.
A back off has little significance. They don't trespass you, just say "You are too good. No more blackjack." I play there 3 or 4 times a month (very short sessions) whenever I am in downtown area. I can't get my normal spread down, but don't have to. With the games being so good, I can get the same EV with a smaller spread that I would get elsewhere playing my full spread. Same EV, less risk.
A back off has little significance. They don't trespass you, just say "You are too good. No more blackjack." I play there 3 or 4 times a month (very short sessions) whenever I am in downtown area. I can't get my normal spread down, but don't have to. With the games being so good, I can get the same EV with a smaller spread that I would get elsewhere playing my full spread. Same EV, less risk.
June 10th, 2012 at 12:32:00 PM
permalink
Quote: kewljOlder white, male pit guy named Joe (white/grey hair) is the worst. He will back you off if you win a hundred bucks at a $25 table. lol I have seen him back players off that weren't counting. Kind of sad. Older Asian female pit ladies are much more tolerant.
A back off has little significance. They don't trespass you, just say "You are too good. No more blackjack." I play there 3 or 4 times a month (very short sessions) whenever I am in downtown area. I can't get my normal spread down, but don't have to. With the games being so good, I can get the same EV with a smaller spread that I would get elsewhere playing my full spread. Same EV, less risk.
The older Asian pit ladies are legends on this forum for some strange reason. I've only been on this forum for a little over 6 months and I have probably seen them mentioned 5 of 6 times in different threads for different reasons, most of them being that they are friendly.
June 10th, 2012 at 1:24:18 PM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 10th, 2012 at 5:32:11 PM
permalink
i'm all excited to try this place out now. i'll consider any back-off complimentary. looks like there are plenty of fair (but pricey) games in town...
this would be my first time in vegas. do i want to stay on the strip or off the strip? got any recommendation for hotels?
this would be my first time in vegas. do i want to stay on the strip or off the strip? got any recommendation for hotels?
June 10th, 2012 at 5:46:34 PM
permalink
Quote: kitties666this would be my first time in vegas. do i want to stay on the strip or off the strip? got any recommendation for hotels?
Without a doubt you want to stay on the strip if its your first time. What is your budget per night, and is it weeknight or weekend?
Vote for Nobody 2020!
June 10th, 2012 at 5:58:11 PM
permalink
weeknights...cheaper is better but i'll pay up to $150/night for a decent spot.
June 11th, 2012 at 4:22:43 PM
permalink
Read some of the hotel reviews. They are accurate and of good use to me. Teddy's recent review of the Eastside cannery was quite good and I will be staying there my next trip as I always rent a car and location isn't that important to me. However, for a first time visitor, I would agree with Bigfoot on staying on the strip. Pricey but beautiful hotels. Play your blackjack off strip for the 3:2 blackjack.
June 11th, 2012 at 4:50:14 PM
permalink
You might be able to get into the belagio or Wynn for that price. I would think you could easily stay at the Mirage or Ceasars or Mandalay bay for that price. Honestly I am more of a Casino Royale Guy.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
June 11th, 2012 at 5:08:07 PM
permalink
Quote: kitties666weeknights...cheaper is better but i'll pay up to $150/night for a decent spot.
Depending on your definition of decent, you're way too high for Vegas. With a players card, you can get the Venetian for $130 a night or so.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 11th, 2012 at 8:49:00 PM
permalink
Quote: bigfoot66You might be able to get into the belagio or Wynn for that price. I would think you could easily stay at the Mirage or Ceasars or Mandalay bay for that price. Honestly I am more of a Casino Royale Guy.
I'm not sure where people have gotten this impression that it's impossible or nearly so to find 3:2 blackjack on the strip. In general, Caesars properties will have a lot of 6:5 games, but you just have to keep your eyes peeled and you will find the 3:2 games at those properties, usually at higher mins. But just head to the MGM properties and almost everything is 3:2 with reasonably minimums.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
June 11th, 2012 at 9:22:21 PM
permalink
You can find a nice 3:2 double deck game at TI for $10-$15 at times -- the usual off-strip rules but with strip atmosphere. Unfortunately, I think the good low-limit games at MGM Grand are gone for good. I saw the tables stacked up in a corner during the renovation and there's no way they're not changing those felts when they come back. By the way, Cosmopolitan pays 6:5 on ALL their SD and DD games now. Walk through there, check out the restaurants and clubs, but don't play there if you know what's good for you.Quote: AcesAndEightsI'm not sure where people have gotten this impression that it's impossible or nearly so to find 3:2 blackjack on the strip. In general, Caesars properties will have a lot of 6:5 games, but you just have to keep your eyes peeled and you will find the 3:2 games at those properties, usually at higher mins. But just head to the MGM properties and almost everything is 3:2 with reasonably minimums.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
August 16th, 2012 at 9:50:15 AM
permalink
What was said here in the past about the white male pit bosses and the Asian female pit bosses is true. The Asian ladies never blink an eye. The white guys love to give heat.
I was given heat for the first time (that I noticed) at the El Cortez yesterday. I got backed off. It was an honor.
There's some irony in the fact that I was backed off when spreading 1-4. I had been spreading 1-6, 1-8, and even 10X a couple times with practically no hassle.
That place is very dealer dependent too. Some dealers are by the book "checks play" when they see a 1-5 spread or greater. Other dealers didn't say a word when I bet "big." My min was always $5.
Annoyingly, I wasn't rated well during my El Cortez bj endeavor. I was rated at a $5 average bet when that's clearly not the case. $8-$9 would be more accurate, so that's about 60-70% more in comps assuming it works that way; I'm not positive. I was rated better playing dice for 15 minutes playing the Don't with odds.
I was given heat for the first time (that I noticed) at the El Cortez yesterday. I got backed off. It was an honor.
There's some irony in the fact that I was backed off when spreading 1-4. I had been spreading 1-6, 1-8, and even 10X a couple times with practically no hassle.
That place is very dealer dependent too. Some dealers are by the book "checks play" when they see a 1-5 spread or greater. Other dealers didn't say a word when I bet "big." My min was always $5.
Annoyingly, I wasn't rated well during my El Cortez bj endeavor. I was rated at a $5 average bet when that's clearly not the case. $8-$9 would be more accurate, so that's about 60-70% more in comps assuming it works that way; I'm not positive. I was rated better playing dice for 15 minutes playing the Don't with odds.
August 16th, 2012 at 10:03:13 AM
permalink
Just wanted to reply to teddys: as of Sunday, MGM still has the good pit, some tables at S17, 3-2,surrender, I think RSA too, BUT it is no longer hand-shuffled, it uses one of the batch shufflers, so I am unsure if it is 6 or 8 decks. Minimums were between $10-15
August 16th, 2012 at 10:03:47 AM
permalink
ico: so you got backed off for betting $20?
August 16th, 2012 at 10:12:40 AM
permalink
I've never played rated at the El Cortez. Most of my back offs have come while I was losing. I've tried to get backed off a few times just for fun and it never worked and I've wondered if they were waiting for me to lose.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
August 16th, 2012 at 10:29:07 AM
permalink
Quote: dlevinelawJust wanted to reply to teddys: as of Sunday, MGM still has the good pit, some tables at S17, 3-2,surrender, I think RSA too, BUT it is no longer hand-shuffled, it uses one of the batch shufflers, so I am unsure if it is 6 or 8 decks. Minimums were between $10-15
That game was 6 decks and you could re-split aces. Are these ASMs that shuffle one shoe while the other is in play? They could be 6 or 8 decks. You'll know by looking at the shoe and the discards.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
August 16th, 2012 at 10:58:19 AM
permalink
I was stuck when the suit physically sat down to my right. I left about even, up $2. My second to last hand I tipped a dollar with a $20 bet, doubled (including for the dealer), and won. I had also tipped a couple more dollars that morning.
Yes, believe it or not I was backed off for betting $20. I had bet $30 to $40 and also had opportunities to double $20 - $30 bets. Some would argue that it has little to do with winning or losing and nearly all about being an AP. They don't want someone with any kind of edge to be playing for a second. If they could identify an edge due to sloppy dealing, they'd move the dealer. That's how casinos work. They aren't in the gambling business the same way some of us are.
Over three days I played ten hours of blackjack at $5 min and net +$414. I accumulated $16.60 in comps of which maybe a dollar or two is from a 15 minute craps session waiting for a comfortable bj spot to open up.
If I was still welcome there and didn't have to worry much about heat, I could grind out a nice income at low variance betting mostly red chips.
I'm also a member of a large web forum which has a simple equation for a name in which the sum is 4 if anyone wants to PM me, so we can talk further. I'd enjoy getting into team play and doing things I couldn't otherwise on my own.
Yes, believe it or not I was backed off for betting $20. I had bet $30 to $40 and also had opportunities to double $20 - $30 bets. Some would argue that it has little to do with winning or losing and nearly all about being an AP. They don't want someone with any kind of edge to be playing for a second. If they could identify an edge due to sloppy dealing, they'd move the dealer. That's how casinos work. They aren't in the gambling business the same way some of us are.
Over three days I played ten hours of blackjack at $5 min and net +$414. I accumulated $16.60 in comps of which maybe a dollar or two is from a 15 minute craps session waiting for a comfortable bj spot to open up.
If I was still welcome there and didn't have to worry much about heat, I could grind out a nice income at low variance betting mostly red chips.
I'm also a member of a large web forum which has a simple equation for a name in which the sum is 4 if anyone wants to PM me, so we can talk further. I'd enjoy getting into team play and doing things I couldn't otherwise on my own.
August 16th, 2012 at 10:59:27 AM
permalink
Sorry to derail the thread: yeah those are the shufflers, I just wasn't paying attention to whether they were using the 6 or 8 deck machines.
August 16th, 2012 at 11:18:35 AM
permalink
I wish I knew this at the time with heat. I would have snap left as soon as I knew I was getting heat and likely come back later just fine.
August 16th, 2012 at 11:51:54 AM
permalink
Quote: Wavy70The game is one of the better in town. Many people mention they have a lot of break in dealers this may work for you or against you. The El Cortez is one of the older properties in town.
I think that the El Cortez is now the oldest "purpose built casino" in town. When it first opened the population of Las Vegas city was probably about 8000.
Bugsy Siegal briefly owned a percentage of the El Cortez before he opened The Flamingo. Every board and brick of the original Flamingo building was destroyed in the early 1990's so all that remains from the 1940's is the name. In contrast, the El Cortez has the original signage.
La Bayou on Fremont street was one of the original 7 licenses given on the first day that gambling was made legal in 1931, but it was a pre-existing club for a long time. It was not a "purpose built" casino. In any event it is now a slot parlor only.
August 16th, 2012 at 11:55:11 AM
permalink
Quick way to tell if 6 or 8 decks: When the dealer rolls the cards, a six-deck pack will usually fit into his or her hand very easily. For an eight-deck shoe, they will really have to stretch to grab it.Quote: ico2525I wish I knew this at the time with heat. I would have snap left as soon as I knew I was getting heat and likely come back later just fine.
(I'm sure there is a better way but that's what I use. Or you could just ask :))
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
August 16th, 2012 at 12:56:01 PM
permalink
If you can`t distinguish between 6 and 8 decks you need to play more or study decks at home.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
August 16th, 2012 at 1:21:50 PM
permalink
Quote: HunterhillIf you can`t distinguish between 6 and 8 decks you need to play more or study decks at home.
This is absolutely true...I need to practice more at home to keep my skills sharp in general, and specifically on deck estimation it's pretty easy to get acquainted with the size of different stacks. Even though I currently use an unbalanced count, knowing how many decks you're playing against is critical. Also some day I may move on to a balanced count.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
August 16th, 2012 at 2:47:06 PM
permalink
You can always use the WOW!!! how many cards is that? Then the dealer will tell you if it's six or eight.
March 30th, 2013 at 3:56:57 PM
permalink
I was just in Vegas for March Madness and my girlfriend and I really felt like the El Cortez Cabana suites are a decent value and we will likely be returning there next year for the Downtown part of our Vegas festivities. I'll have about a year to practice, but was wondering what count and spread strategy would best to use for their single deck blackjack game. I can handle about a $2,000 bankroll for this endeavor, which I think is probably sufficient for the $5 min with a moderate spread.
I have happy with any of the three outcomes:
#1 I get crushed, but can say that I gave it a shot.
#2 I make a little bit of money.
#3 I get backed off and my ego loves it!
I have happy with any of the three outcomes:
#1 I get crushed, but can say that I gave it a shot.
#2 I make a little bit of money.
#3 I get backed off and my ego loves it!
November 6th, 2013 at 12:25:17 PM
permalink
Your bankroll is adequate. At bigger resorts if I'm playing for comps as well, I like to buy in for more than I need to for employee discretionary purposes. How much you buy in for of course does not affect your theoretical, but it may help with anything discretionary from casino employees. If comps are secondary, just buy-in for 100ish at a time. It'd be foolish to whip out $500 at the El Cortez in front of everyone.
You can do just fine with a 4x spread. Depending on the dealer, they will call "checks play" at 5 or 6x if at all. If you don't mind being backed off, go ahead and spread to 10x. It's fun.
You can do just fine with a 4x spread. Depending on the dealer, they will call "checks play" at 5 or 6x if at all. If you don't mind being backed off, go ahead and spread to 10x. It's fun.
November 7th, 2013 at 3:21:52 PM
permalink
Last time I was in Vegas I played the El Cortez. Yes it’s an old casino, but the rules are great. I’m not used playing BJ and getting to hold the cards in my hands, where I live that is impossible. Also, people are allowed to smoke; hate it. Well, I broke even and the lady made a small profit (100$). If and when I go back to LV, I will probably go to the El Cortez; one deck game with low minimum, YES!
November 7th, 2013 at 3:29:54 PM
permalink
I like EC. I have no desire for glitz and glam, and I know for sure the EC doesn't offer it. They have pretty fair games, $3 craps, $5BJ that pays 3/2 and I believe $.50 roulette too(not a roulette player, so that would need to be confirmed).
November 8th, 2013 at 11:40:02 AM
permalink
Quote: PicassoI’m not used playing BJ and getting to hold the cards in my hands, where I live that is impossible.
I don't think you can hold the cards while playing BJ at El Cortez either. I just play the DD game there.
Can't say for sure about SD?
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see.
