PS - Before anyone says anything, for whatever reason Barona writes any check for winnings on their Jackpot account - these were not slot wins.
Quote: Mosca40k, not Form 8300. Multiple checks under 10k, totaling more than 10k, Form 8300.
I thought CTRs are only for cash transactions, not checks. I routinely deposit checks for over $10,000 at the bank and have never filled out anything. They're not gambling winnings, mind you, but still, the bank doesn't care.
to the IRS that you don't have to pay taxes on it
because you lost more than you won last year? Did
you keep an accurate gambling diary, its the only
thing they'll accept. If Barona didn't report the
winnings to the IRS, the bank where you cashed
the checks did. They're required to report any
transactions over $10K.
Quote: MathExtremistI thought CTRs are only for cash transactions, not checks. I routinely deposit checks for over $10,000 at the bank and have never filled out anything. They're not gambling winnings, mind you, but still, the bank doesn't care.
I did some research, and I'm wrong. 8300 is for businesses receiving more than $10k. Form 104 is for cash transactions over $10k.
Nevertheless, in the aforementioned instance multiple checks of $7k totaling $40k count the same, as related transactions.
Quote: EvenBobThey paid you $105K by check, how do you explain
to the IRS that you don't have to pay taxes on it
because you lost more than you won last year? Did
you keep an accurate gambling diary, its the only
thing they'll accept. If Barona didn't report the
winnings to the IRS, the bank where you cashed
the checks did. They're required to report any
transactions over $10K.
Yes, I am reporting these wins (and offsetting losses) on the taxes I am about to file. I have win/loss ststements, a diary, and other records to prove it to the IRS if need be. By the time these wins happened, I already had losses to offset them, most of which had generated CTRs because I lost more than $10k cash at one time (many of those were sports bets as well, which is my primary focus as far as advantage gambling). I was just running very badly early in 2011. I know someone who was actually arrested for structuring, so I stopped doing anything that would approach that long ago. Whether I get rated and play in a manner that generates reports all depends on what I am doing at the casino that day.
Btw checks from a casino do not generate any sort of special filing, but obviously if you deposit it to a bank, the bank will have a record of the deposit. Also note that you can take a check from a place like Barona and use it as front money in Vegas directly, which generates no reports from either place. You could win $1m at one casino, get a check, take it across the street where you promptly lose it, and no reports would be generated. In Vegas most places will accept chips from other Vegas casinos, which is preferable to checks, but they won't take chips from places outside of Vegas.
Quote: thefish2010but obviously if you deposit it ro a bank, the bank will have a record of the deposit.
The bank was required to file a form with the IRS
the day you cashed the checks, which they can't
tell you about. If you ask them they'd tell you, but
they can't volunteer the information. Whats 'structuring',
never heard of it.
Quote: EvenBobThe bank was required to file a form with the IRS
the day you cashed the checks, which they can't
tell you about. If you ask them they'd tell you, but
they can't volunteer the information. Whats 'structuring',
never heard of it.
If I cashed them, then they would have to file a CTR. If I intended to cash them, however, I would have simply taken cash from the casino. If you simply deposit the check, they are under no obligation to report anything. People deposit large checks every minute of every day. Unless they are drawn on a foreign bank, no reports are generated.
Read about Structuring. It's why you should think twice before trying to cash amounts under $10k several times. Note that this refers to hard currency transactions, not checks or other non-currency transactions. Many people do it, but you don't want to get caught.
I also don't fly, as I drive to almost every casino that I visit, so airport declarations is not a problem.
I also don't structure, and I always pay my taxes.
The goal is to not pay more in taxes than is fair, as the tax forms generated by the casinos are sometimes way off.
Quote: klimate10Here is an image of my last win and bankroll. 36k.
I also don't fly, as I drive to almost every casino that I visit, so airport declarations is not a problem.
I also don't structure, and I always pay my taxes.
The goal is to not pay more in taxes than is fair, as the tax forms generated by the casinos are sometimes way off.
Sweet! It always makes you feel good when you have this kind of cash on you...much better than a check :).
I friend of mine, who is very wealthy and, like me never uses markers (we believe in not playing on credit, so no cash, no play), went to Coushatta, which is an Indian Casino in Louisiana.
He is a slot addict. He was playing the 100$ slots and, right on front of my eyes, hit the top prize of $100,000. They asked him how he wanted it, and he said cash, in $20 bills because he wanted to impress this cocktail waitress that he was hitting on. They carted out $100,000 (minus taxes) in $20 bills and put it on a push tray for him, and gave him a personal security guard. Later on that night, the push cart of cash was gone, and he said that it was troublesome, so he just put it in some safe deposit boxes.
He got a lot of attention, and the cocktail waitress and a decent looking friend came and spent the night with us in the personal RV that the casino uses to house players (the casino has a traditional hotel and a series of RV/mobile homes for players). It was a good time.
As we were about to go home, I asked him for his share of the gas money (yeah, we're cheap), and he tried playing coy, saying he would get me when we got back. After some more pushing (including questions like, "where's the cash?"), he confessed that he lost it all back, and then lost his entire bankroll of $50,000 cash.
Come tax time, he had to go back to the casino to pick up his statement from the casino showing the loss because the casino, when a win/jackpot is generated, will generate a tax form, on the spot before paying off the jackpot. Also, he said he would have owed some money on the wins because he said that not all of it was accounted properly (this story was probably an excuse to go back and gamble some more, because our rule number two, in addition the "driving rule above", is that we only go once a year). I saw his statement from the casino, and it showed that he lost $400,000 that year playing slots (this also meant that he had been gambling way more than once a year, and without our group)! AND, the kicker, when he went back to get his loss statement, he wound up losing another $50,000 of his own money.
It always cracks me up, inside, when I hear about him bitching about his wife buying $300 bras and panties.
Quote: thefish2010If you simply deposit the check, they are under no obligation to report anything.
From the IRS Hitman page:
"Your bank is required to send in a report (to the IRS)
of the amount of money you've despoited
into your account at the end of the year."
Quote: EvenBobFrom the IRS Hitman page:
"Your bank is required to send in a report (to the IRS)
of the amount of money you've despoited
into your account at the end of the year."
Of course your bank has records of your deposits, and may report them. However there is a gigantic difference between a CTR being submitted and knowing/reporting your gross check deposits. I pay taxes on every dime that could possibly generate a record.
Quote: thefish2010Of course your bank has records of your deposits, and may report them.
They don't have a choice, the IRS requires they
report them.
Quote: klimate10On a side note, a sad and funny story...at the same time. Don't feel too bad for the guy because he's a successful surgeon who cracks a million annually. He's my gambling buddy, and we have a rule that we must drive to any casino. No flying.
I friend of mine, who is very wealthy and, like me never uses markers (we believe in not playing on credit, so no cash, no play), went to Coushatta, which is an Indian Casino in Louisiana.
He is a slot addict. He was playing the 100$ slots and, right on front of my eyes, hit the top prize of $100,000. They asked him how he wanted it, and he said cash, in $20 bills because he wanted to impress this cocktail waitress that he was hitting on. They carted out $100,000 (minus taxes) in $20 bills and put it on a push tray for him, and gave him a personal security guard. Later on that night, the push cart of cash was gone, and he said that it was troublesome, so he just put it in some safe deposit boxes.
He got a lot of attention, and the cocktail waitress and a decent looking friend came and spent the night with us in the personal RV that the casino uses to house players (the casino has a traditional hotel and a series of RV/mobile homes for players). It was a good time.
As we were about to go home, I asked him for his share of the gas money (yeah, we're cheap), and he tried playing coy, saying he would get me when we got back. After some more pushing (including questions like, "where's the cash?"), he confessed that he lost it all back, and then lost his entire bankroll of $50,000 cash.
Come tax time, he had to go back to the casino to pick up his statement from the casino showing the loss because the casino, when a win/jackpot is generated, will generate a tax form, on the spot before paying off the jackpot. Also, he said he would have owed some money on the wins because he said that not all of it was accounted properly (this story was probably an excuse to go back and gamble some more, because our rule number two, in addition the "driving rule above", is that we only go once a year). I saw his statement from the casino, and it showed that he lost $400,000 that year playing slots (this also meant that he had been gambling way more than once a year, and without our group)! AND, the kicker, when he went back to get his loss statement, he wound up losing another $50,000 of his own money.
It always cracks me up, inside, when I hear about him bitching about his wife buying $300 bras and panties.
It's always amazing to me how people can get into slots, when they are such a bad bet and pay off so rarely that they don't even offer the illusion of potential positive variance. But those that get hooked on them can't seem to stop. And I'll bet every $300 his wife spends, he sees $300 that could have gone into his slot bankroll.
Quote: thefish2010It's always amazing to me how people can get into slots, when they are such a bad bet and rarely pay off. But those that get hooked on them can't seem to stop.
My wife is addicted. We'll take a break for dinner and she'll
say she wants to play another $20 after dinner and then we'll
leave, and its my job to make sure we do. She'll lose $20 right
away and put in another $20 and I end up having to drag her
out every time. Once I threw a bucket of quarters she had, had
to be 50 of them, and they scattered everywhere. She's always
super pissed at me on the way home, and says she means it
when she tells me to make her leave, but when it actually comes
to me doing it, she fights it tooth and nail. Its very scary to me,
she's like a different person when she plays.
Quote: EvenBobMy wife is addicted. We'll take a break for dinner and she'll
say she wants to play another $20 after dinner and then we'll
leave, and its my job to make sure we do. She'll lose $20 right
away and put in another $20 and I end up having to drag her
out every time. Once I threw a bucket of quarters she had, had
to be 50 of them, and they scattered everywhere. She's always
super pissed at me on the way home, and says she means it
when she tells me to make her leave, but when it actually comes
to me doing it, she fights it tooth and nail. Its very scary to me,
she's like a different person when she plays.
I've had some experience with a family member that has problem gambling issues. The fact that I am an overall winner probably doesn't help, because I think he believes that I am just lucky. Anyway do whatever you have to in order to stop your wife, and do it now. She is addicted to a game that will take every dollar she chooses to put into it, and the more she loses, the more she'll want to bet. It's a vicious cycle that can only end badly. There is no rock bottom for an addicted gambler - as long as they are breathing and not getting help, things will get worse.
Quote: thefish2010I've had some experience with a family member that has problem gambling issues.
Then only other thing she's addicted to is candy, so there's
none in the house. The last time we went to Vegas, we got
adjoining rooms because she stays up so late that I didn't
want her to wake me when she came in at 4am. I have no
idea how she did, sometimes she wins. But she was in a real
foul mood on the way home, so I can only imagine what
went on.
Quote: EvenBobMy wife is addicted. We'll take a break for dinner and she'll
say she wants to play another $20 after dinner and then we'll
leave, and its my job to make sure we do. She'll lose $20 right
away and put in another $20 and I end up having to drag her
out every time. Once I threw a bucket of quarters she had, had
to be 50 of them, and they scattered everywhere. She's always
super pissed at me on the way home, and says she means it
when she tells me to make her leave, but when it actually comes
to me doing it, she fights it tooth and nail. Its very scary to me,
she's like a different person when she plays.
Sounds like this explains your signature line.
Quote: EvenBobFrom the IRS Hitman page:
"Your bank is required to send in a report (to the IRS)
of the amount of money you've despoited
into your account at the end of the year."
Here's something from the IRS itself that I didn't
know.
"IRS assumes that all money deposited in a taxpayer’s
bank account during a given period constitutes taxable income."
You have to have proof if some of it isn't income. Say
you loaned a friend $5K last year and he paid you back
this year. That isn't income, and you better have a contract
with your friend as proof, cause they won't take your word
that it was a loan.
On those few occasions where I can convince her to enter a casino, she plays penny machines, bets a minimal amount, and gets pissed if she loses five bucks.
Then again, she never nags me to quit, nor complain about my, ahem, "losses."
Hell, I think I'll keep her.
I will never see those kinds of wins, since I never press my bets unless I am counting.
"I hate variance!" --The Wizard of Odds.
I might have a big bankroll, but I'm not a high roller. I'm one cheap bastard, and proud of it. I refuse to pay for my gambling, and I only play if I can pay next to nothing or absolutely nothing.
I often tell my friends that I bet $1000 on one hand of craps. But they're confused when I tell them that the sucker betting $2 on the C&E is more valuable to the house than my $1000 per hand bet (note that the $1000 has ZERO house edge). Throw in a few angle shoots, shots at new, weak, lazy, or tired dealers, and comps, and we are talking + EV.
Then toss in my lack of tipping...and I'm the ultimate flea. Proud of it.
My new favorite site, which I found through the WOV, has my favorite newquote, and it reflects my thoughts perfectly, "he gambles too much, he gambles too little".
Barona, here I come to rape you!!!!
Well, then glad to have you here :) I was joking, of course.Quote: klimate10Then toss in my lack of tipping...and I'm the ultimate flea. Proud of it.
By the way, you might want to redact part of your post. I hear PaiGowDan is composing a response as we speak. (Another joke).
I see tipping as part of the house edge, since the dealers work for the house. Why would I voluntarily increase the house edge?
Cocktail waitresses...that's a different story. It is immoral, unethical, and (should be) illegal to not contribute to the silicone titty fund.
Quote: klimate10
I often tell my friends that I bet $1000 on one hand of craps. But they're confused when I tell them that the sucker betting $2 on the C&E is more valuable to the house than my $1000 per hand bet (note that the $1000 has ZERO house edge).
Please explain yourself.
There is no craps bet, based solely on your action, that has zero house edge.
Sure, you can bet $50 line bet and $950 odds (if it's a 20X odds casino), but the house still has the edge on you.
Quote: klimate10Here is an image of my last win and bankroll. 36k.
I also don't fly, as I drive to almost every casino that I visit, so airport declarations is not a problem.
I also don't structure, and I always pay my taxes.
The goal is to not pay more in taxes than is fair, as the tax forms generated by the casinos are sometimes way off.
My hero's!!!!!! Congrats to you both on your wins. I wish I was as lucky. I love craps, but its been kicking my butt. Need some good luck to rub off over here.
Quote: klimate10It is immoral, unethical, and (should be) illegal to not contribute to the silicone titty fund.
Implants save lives!!
See my trip report for New Mexico. I posted pics as proof. All my trip reports will always have pics as proof.
Because of my AP play, I find that people sometimes don't believe me, so I've learned to take pics. Also, makes the trip report more interesting with pics.
$1000 bet with ZERO house edge. Not one penny.
I intend to take lots of pics when i play Barona.
Does me a helluva lot of good, as that is not offered where I play (tribal joints in Oregon; occasional trips to Las Vegas).
But yes, there seems to be a bet with zero HE, open to anybody.
But is it accurate to characterize it as a true AP?
No advantage goes to the player, it just levels the playing field.
Still, neat to see this offered.
Im just a cheap ass and like to gamble for free.
Zero HE = free.
My AP plays, if they are in action, yields me about $2 an hour. So i don't use advantage plays to make money. Its just fun to gamble on the cheap.
In a couple of weeks Im flying to Barona to play a positive Mississippi stud game with a 1.5% player edge. I expect to win tens upon tens of dollars!!
Quote: klimate10AP, no. Not in the strictest sense. you don't have an advantage.
Im just a cheap ass and like to gamble for free.
Zero HE = free.
My AP plays, if they are in action, yields me about $2 an hour. So i don't use advantage plays to make money. Its just fun to gamble on the cheap.
In a couple of weeks Im flying to Barona to play a positive Mississippi stud game with a 1.5% player edge. I expect to win tens upon tens of dollars!!
You'll like Barona...i was just there this weekend for a wedding in Fallbrook.
I love their card craps, and they're quite generous with their table game comps...defintely tip the dealers...it won't go unappreciated.
They also bring around a cart with snacks and free hotdogs!!
And their buffet is GREAT!!
Tim, did you try to count the card craps game?
Did you notice the Mississippi Stud table? Was it packed? Mississippi Stud has a player advantage if properly played at Barona.
I can't wait to go. On a plus side, I love California weather, especially San Diego weather. I miss Cali.
Quote: klimate10Nice!
Tim, did you try to count the card craps game?
Did you notice the Mississippi Stud table? Was it packed? Mississippi Stud has a player advantage if properly played at Barona.
I can't wait to go. On a plus side, I love California weather, especially San Diego weather. I miss Cali.
SORRY FOR THE CAPS..
THIS PARTICULAR VERSION OF CARD CRAPS IS BASICALLY REAL CRAPS, SO THE CARDS DONT MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE..
YES THE MS STUD TABLE WAS PACKED...BUT THEN AGAIN W
SO WAS THE ENTIRE PLACE...FOR THE ENTIRE WEEKEND!
Since you were there this weekend, can you confirm that the MS STUD game is still dealt with all player cards face up?
how difficult do you think it would be to get a seat at the MS table? I hear they only have one table with six seats. Also, were most people betting reds, greens?
Thanks, Tim.
Quote: klimate10When I communicated with Stephen at discountgambling.net, Stephen stated that, last he knew, the cards at MS STUD were still dealt face up.
Since you were there this weekend, can you confirm that the MS STUD game is still dealt with all player cards face up?
how difficult do you think it would be to get a seat at the MS table? I hear they only have one table with six seats. Also, were most people betting reds, greens?
Thanks, Tim.
I was tired and didn't pay much attention, but I think yes face up..players were betting stacks of greens..but like I said, everyone was playing bigger than I'm used to...you could get A SEAT, but you might have to wait a little on the weekends...
I guess the players weren't APs. Stephen's advice is to not bet more than $25 on the ante because any bet over $25 would be short paid on the Royal. He stated that the max aggregate payout was $125,000 (although he stated that this may have changed).
Quote: TIMSPEEDSORRY FOR THE CAPS..
OK, I absolve thee. But is there some reason you were unable to use lower case? Just curious.
Quote: TIMSPEEDYou'll like Barona...i was just there this weekend for a wedding in Fallbrook.
I love their card craps, and they're quite generous with their table game comps...defintely tip the dealers...it won't go unappreciated.
They also bring around a cart with snacks and free hotdogs!!
And their buffet is GREAT!!
Barona, at least in my experience, is one of the best managed casinos in the country. It's very much a player's casino. The dealers and floor people seem happy, they take good care of players in terms of comps and overall treatment, and offer good rules and high limits on their games. The hotel portion itself is on-par with mid-level strip hotels (I was in a comped La Fiesta suite, and it was very spacious and comfortable).
They have table-side dining if you want it (which you can't even find in Vegas except for some poker rooms) and other good restauarant choices when you're away from the tables. It's also very well designed - even when it's crowded, it doesn't feel or look like a refugee camp as many casinos do. The ATMs are free to use as well, which is something I've never seen anywhere else. They are one of the most profitable casinos in California - they're supposedly clearing somewhere in the neighborhood of $1 million per day - and I don't wonder why. They basically offer everything that a player could reasonably expect of a casino, and then some. It's not even close to what people think of when they think of an Indian casino.
When I first went a few years ago, it reminded me of Bellagio...when I went this weekend...even better because I signed up for a club card, and soon after playing was asked if I was hungry and needed a comp slip...the second day I came back...the floor called a host, and the host asked if I needed a room...
Any of you guys wanna get together and make a Caribbean stud team? Ill be at barona playing MS. It'd be awesome to get some team Caribbean stud in.
Biggest day here was a mere $5500 in 1992... all 21. Never deposited the cash, kept it as mad money in case a road trip broke-out. (It did, and was well prepared)