Using a Bookie voids all pays and plays - Caesars Sportsbook
OTOH, this guy should have asked himself:
"Would an idiot have someone run a six figure bet for themself, then show up at the casino wanting to take half a million out in a duffel bag?"
The answer is "yes" so he should not have done that thing.
Lets analyze.
First, anyone betting at that level knows the prohibition on messenger betting. If they have an ounce of common sense they are at the least not going to brag about it on social media.
Next, his runner would have had to have told him about the experience. At that level a Players Card would probably be required. Even if it is not, KYC comes into play. The runner would have probably wired funds to the cage, if not he would need to answer for the bag of cash slid across the counter. This ain't the Rosenthal Stardust book of the early 70s. The runner would have called him and said, "Hey, Bo, you had better be careful collecting because you have no idea what I had to go thru laying this. We should have been smart and spread it out."
Finally, he shows up looking like Mr. T. That draws attention.
He might be playing a long game of a seven-figure lawsuit. Or he might just be an idiot.
Quote: AZDuffman
"Would an idiot have someone run a six figure bet for themself, then show up at the casino wanting to take half a million out in a duffel bag?"
Anyone who thinks they need a Duffel bag for $500k is not very bright. $500k will fit in a typical plastic grocery store bag.
But you are more or less right about the size having picked up $100K in winnings many times, although usually I opt for a check.
One story is Manny was actually paid by Caesars to be an influencer for their brand, allowed to video inside their casino and they had a contract that stated he could not make any wagers over a certain amount.
The other story is they denied him for using a bookie illegally.
My guess is it's a combination. He knew he couldn't make such a large wager himself for contractual reasons and sent in his bookie.
This actually makes a lot of sense because the odds of Caesars employees following some random guy on Instagram to notice the posted proof of the bookie is probably pretty high. But not if he is a paid influencer. Suddenly it makes a lot of sense they are actively following him on Instagram.
I suspect their argument is going to be they paid him as an influencer and while they are checking to see how it's working out for them they see him posting about bookies making bets. Not the type of influence they want or need. So they took action and hence the ban and refusal to pay.
LOL ... Mr T with a duffel bag!Quote: AZDuffmanhe shows up looking like Mr. T.
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I thought this guy was an ex-pro athlete maybe? Apparently not? he just seems to be an "influencer" who somehow has the cash to make big bets and show them on Instagram. Where is all that cash coming from?
I think it is even possible this is all fake
As far as I know, casinos are supposed to be agnostic to your source of funds, and they are responsible for KYC, SAR, CTR, all that jive. In that case they know who placed the bet and that same person should be entitled to be paid. Whether he got that money to place the bet from his salary, or robbing a bank, or getting it from Manny Cortez is not something they would know or be in any position to investigate in any other case so I don't see why it would be an issue here.
Seriously... that makes no sense they keep the original bet. Is there some sort of weird loophole here that isn't obvious legally speaking?Quote: billryanIf the bet is voided, how can they not return the original bet?
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Very easy to see this did not happen in Las Vegas and that the bet was not void.
On the slim chance there was some type of illegal wire act stuff going on, it would not be the casino that gets to press charges.
Quote: TomGDumb.
Very easy to see this did not happen in Las Vegas and that the bet was not void.
On the slim chance there was some type of illegal wire act stuff going on, it would not be the casino that gets to press charges.
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It happened at North Carolina Harrah's Cherokee.
Yep, the big evil company took a bet, lost, and then cried T's and C's. You and I both know if he would have loss they would have accepted the outcome. You are correct that they have the T's and C's on their side. However... reality doesn't usually care too much about the T's and C's... Steal $500k from people after accepting their bet... See what happens...Quote: WizardI feel badly for the guy. However, Caesars is allowed to do what they did. It sucks because sportsbooks take large bets from runners all the time and they know it. What's different here is Caesars had solid proof. I do think he should at least get the original wager back.
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Quote: RomesYep, the big evil company took a bet, lost, and then cried T's and C's. You and I both know if he would have loss they would have accepted the outcome. You are correct that they have the T's and C's on their side. However... reality doesn't usually care too much about the T's and C's... Steal $500k from people after accepting their bet... See what happens...
Has nothing to do with t and c and nothing to do with not paying the bet. The guy in the video didn't make the bet so he's not the one who gets paid. When the guy that did make the bet shows up, he gets paid. The whole thing is dumb.
Quote: TomGQuote: RomesYep, the big evil company took a bet, lost, and then cried T's and C's. You and I both know if he would have loss they would have accepted the outcome. You are correct that they have the T's and C's on their side. However... reality doesn't usually care too much about the T's and C's... Steal $500k from people after accepting their bet... See what happens...
Has nothing to do with t and c and nothing to do with not paying the bet. The guy in the video didn't make the bet so he's not the one who gets paid. When the guy that did make the bet shows up, he gets paid. The whole thing is dumb.
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There is more to the story according to some sites with more details.
I posted a page or so up about that
Quote: darkozThere is more to the story according to some sites with more details.
I posted a page or so up about that
Since you know more about this than what was in the video, explain what happened when the bettor brought the ticket in to collect his winnings. Was that guy paid or not?
Quote: TomGQuote: darkozThere is more to the story according to some sites with more details.
I posted a page or so up about that
Since you know more about this than what was in the video, explain what happened when the bettor brought the ticket in to collect his winnings. Was that guy paid or not?
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I only know what I read from different gambling news sites and forums.
There's two different stories. Nothing mentions the bookie returning to get paid.
One site said the original bet amount was returned and if that's true then they definitely didn't pay out to the bookie
Also be aware this did take place in North Carolina Cherokee Harrah's. When I hear Cherokee and North Carolina I think of tribal casino. That's definitely going to change the likelihood of him getting paid as I am sure you are aware.
I was under the impression they are canceling the bet and NOT paying ANYONE. Is that not correct? If they pay the runner when he shows up, then yeah, I don't get the problem... just send that guy in?Quote: TomGHas nothing to do with t and c and nothing to do with not paying the bet. The guy in the video didn't make the bet so he's not the one who gets paid. When the guy that did make the bet shows up, he gets paid. The whole thing is dumb.
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Quote: darkozThere's two different stories. Nothing mentions the bookie returning to get paid.
The "bookie" who took the bet was Caesars. They never left. The bettor is the one who made the bet and gets paid after it wins. Some guy who didn't make the bet isn't going to get paid. If the bettor never returns, then after some time has passed Caesars and the state will split the abandoned money.
Quote: darkozAlso be aware this did take place in North Carolina Cherokee Harrah's. When I hear Cherokee and North Carolina I think of tribal casino. That's definitely going to change the likelihood of him getting paid as I am sure you are aware.
I know very little about conditions in NC. Less than 30 seconds on google shows that they are licensed and regulated by the NC State Lottery Commission. There is no information about them assisting sportsbooks in stealing customers money as you are trying to pretend happened.
Quote: TomGQuote: darkozThere's two different stories. Nothing mentions the bookie returning to get paid.
The "bookie" who took the bet was Caesars. They never left. The bettor is the one who made the bet and gets paid after it wins. Some guy who didn't make the bet isn't going to get paid. If the bettor never returns, then after some time has passed Caesars and the state will split the abandoned money.Quote: darkozAlso be aware this did take place in North Carolina Cherokee Harrah's. When I hear Cherokee and North Carolina I think of tribal casino. That's definitely going to change the likelihood of him getting paid as I am sure you are aware.
I know very little about conditions in NC. Less than 30 seconds on google shows that they are licensed and regulated by the NC State Lottery Commission. There is no information about them assisting sportsbooks in stealing customers money as you are trying to pretend happened.
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I have only reported what I read and have said I am not personally involved.
As for stealing a players money, as an AP that has happened. Usually the regulator forces them to give it back and this is yet an early case.
I have had casino staff try stealing from me by refusing to pay out. There is nothing unusual about that.
Manny Cortez stated he used an outside bookie on his social media. He's the one who used the term bookie to refer to who made the bet.
Quote: darkoz
I have had casino staff try stealing from me by refusing to pay out. There is nothing unusual about that.
Refusing to pay is not stealing. Stealing is taking something that you already have.
Quote: darkoz
I have only reported what I read and have said I am not personally involved.
As for stealing a players money, as an AP that has happened. Usually the regulator forces them to give it back and this is yet an early case.
I have had casino staff try stealing from me by refusing to pay out. There is nothing unusual about that.
Manny Cortez stated he used an outside bookie on his social media. He's the one who used the term bookie to refer to who made the bet.
My very first comment saying this was dumb was not an invitation for you to keep saying dumb things. Reporting things you know nothing about is dumb. You have now also read that Caesars did not steal any money on this bet.
I'm guessing you're talking about times the casino was trying to not payout bets that you made. The guy in this video didn't make the bet.
Quote: TomGQuote: darkoz
I have only reported what I read and have said I am not personally involved.
As for stealing a players money, as an AP that has happened. Usually the regulator forces them to give it back and this is yet an early case.
I have had casino staff try stealing from me by refusing to pay out. There is nothing unusual about that.
Manny Cortez stated he used an outside bookie on his social media. He's the one who used the term bookie to refer to who made the bet.
My very first comment saying this was dumb was not an invitation for you to keep saying dumb things. Reporting things you know nothing about is dumb. You have now also read that Caesars did not steal any money on this bet.
I'm guessing you're talking about times the casino was trying to not payout bets that you made. The guy in this video didn't make the bet.
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I have not read that Caesars didn't steal the guys money by refusing to pay the bet.
Please link to that so I can actually read it.
Only thing I read is he may or may not have had his initial bet returned.
I am not the one making dumb comments here FYI.
You can go to this person page and call their statements dumb for reporting the different things that are known or surmised as well
https://www.threads.net/@papapok3r/post/C-Or_MdPbQf
It is dumb to insist you need a link to show that a sportsbook took a bet and paid it out, like they do millions of times per day. But here are their house rules: https://caesars.com/sportsbook-and-casino/nc/support/house-rules/ - if you have any valid reason to think they were not followed, please share them. If you really think "I read about it somewhere" is valid, then that just clears up everything dumb about this whole thing.
Quote: DRichQuote: darkoz
I have had casino staff try stealing from me by refusing to pay out. There is nothing unusual about that.
Refusing to pay is not stealing. Stealing is taking something that you already have.
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I'd say that's a grey area. If someone takes a box off your porch, that's stealing. To me, if a casino doesn't honor a bet or a voucher or refuses to cash chips, it is theft.
If you owed me money and didn't pay, I'd think you stole my money, perhaps not legally, but in reality.
Quote: TomGThe extraordinary claim is that a sportsbook took a bet and didn't pay it out after it won. Yet the only evidence you have that it happened is about as strong as saying you heard it from your girlfriend who lives in Canada.
It is dumb to insist you need a link to show that a sportsbook took a bet and paid it out, like they do millions of times per day. But here are their house rules: https://caesars.com/sportsbook-and-casino/nc/support/house-rules/ - if you have any valid reason to think they were not followed, please share them. If you really think "I read about it somewhere" is valid, then that just clears up everything dumb about this whole thing.
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No my evidence is Manny's posts that he didn't get paid and his post showing his actual eviction letter which I linked to above.
You have posted he must have been paid based on zero evidence he was paid. Please post YOUR evidence or stop spouting BS.
Even MGM has refused to pay winnings when it suits them. Or are you claiming that woman is lying as well?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox2detroit.com/news/lawsuit-woman-wins-127k-mgm-grand-detroit-casino-refuses-pay-her.amp
MGM did pay out every bet on the Celtics to win the NBA Championship last year. Let's see some evidence about Caesars not doing that.
Quote: TomGWas Manny the person who made the bet? If not, then you have just proven exactly why this whole thing is dumb.
MGM did pay out every bet on the Celtics to win the NBA Championship last year. Let's see some evidence about Caesars not doing that.
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The last update was the bet was not paid.
If you have an update that shows it was paid please link to it.
Otherwise you are just making stuff up.
Quote: TomGYou are refusing to show anything about the bettor even attempting to cash the ticket, yet claiming they didn’t pay. Most winning tickets that get cashed don’t get posted on the internet. There is nothing on the internet about Caesars cashing my winning ticket from last night, does that you believe it wasn’t paid? You’re obviously trolling.
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I Presented the last evidence posted.
You claim there is an update but we are supposed to believe you without evidence.
Then you have the chutzpah to argue that I am the one without evidence.
This was a story circulated on multiple websites. NOT ONE has an update that the wager was paid. NOT ONE!
Your claims it was paid therefore are based on zero evidence.
You stating the evidence isn't normally posted is ridiculous. If a $500,000 bet was finally honored in such a case where multiple websites reported on it not being paid there should be an update.
Please post your update with a link not your ridiculous views.
Quote: billryan\
I'd say that's a grey area. If someone takes a box off your porch, that's stealing. To me, if a casino doesn't honor a bet or a voucher or refuses to cash chips, it is theft.
If you owed me money and didn't pay, I'd think you stole my money, perhaps not legally, but in reality.
It may be considered theft by conversion, but definitely not stealing. It is kind of like confusing homicide with murder.
Quote: TomGPaying a bet is business as usual for both bettors and sportsbooks. You are intentionally refusing to post the evidence of the bettor attempting to cash the ticket. That is trolling.
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I am not refusing to post the evidence that the bettor attempted to cash the ticket.
I am saying the LAST (you do understand what the word last means?) evidence posted is that the bet wasn't honored.
And since you say you know for a "FACT" that it was honored in contradiction of last posted evidence then it is on you to prove that.
Clearly it isn't on me.
Interesting that you yourself admit you can't post evidence it was cashed but call me a troll because I don't have evidence it wasn't.
Quote: DRichQuote: billryan\
I'd say that's a grey area. If someone takes a box off your porch, that's stealing. To me, if a casino doesn't honor a bet or a voucher or refuses to cash chips, it is theft.
If you owed me money and didn't pay, I'd think you stole my money, perhaps not legally, but in reality.
It may be considered theft by conversion, but definitely not stealing. It is kind of like confusing homicide with murder.
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I'm pretty sure theft by conversion is in the bible as stealing. It all falls under the Eight Commandment, although it might be under the 10th.
Quote: darkozI am not refusing to post the evidence that the bettor attempted to cash the ticket.
I am saying the LAST (you do understand what the word last means?) evidence posted is that the bet wasn't honored.
And since you say you know for a "FACT" that it was honored in contradiction of last posted evidence then it is on you to prove that.
Clearly it isn't on me.
Interesting that you yourself admit you can't post evidence it was cashed but call me a troll because I don't have evidence it wasn't.
Unless for very small amounts Caesars only pays winning tickets to whomever matches the players card used. I know for a “FACT” that you are being dishonest and trolling by using this video and social media post as some sort of evidence that they didn’t do what they’ve done millions of other times.
Quote: TomGQuote: darkozI am not refusing to post the evidence that the bettor attempted to cash the ticket.
I am saying the LAST (you do understand what the word last means?) evidence posted is that the bet wasn't honored.
And since you say you know for a "FACT" that it was honored in contradiction of last posted evidence then it is on you to prove that.
Clearly it isn't on me.
Interesting that you yourself admit you can't post evidence it was cashed but call me a troll because I don't have evidence it wasn't.
Unless for very small amounts Caesars only pays winning tickets to whomever matches the players card used. I know for a “FACT” that you are being dishonest and trolling by using this video and social media post as some sort of evidence that they didn’t do what they’ve done millions of other times.
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So basically you have no evidence he was paid.
Nuff said.
Dumb people want to believe dumb clickbait BS.
Quote: TomGThe evidence is that sportsbooks take bets and pay out after the bets win. And they’ve done that billions of times.
Dumb people want to believe dumb clickbait BS.
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You must be that guy that believes insurance companies always pay out as well. Because they have paid out billions of times?
Quote: TomGIf someone on the internet said they made a bet on the NBA Finals and the insurance company didn't pay out I would think that was dumb and anyone who believed it would also be dumb.
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I'm starting to wonder if I am having a conversation with an AI now. Getting weird responses.
Anyway the Washington Post even reports on sportsbooks refusing to pay.
Sad people think sportsbooks are free from greed and being operated by stupid people.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/01/17/sports-bets-errors-payouts/
Quote: TomGIf a sportsbook doesn't pay, it's very easy to either get press on it (as the Washinton Post article illustrates), or at least have the side being screwed tell their story somewhere. Yet in this case there is none; the video and social media post are clearly about someone other than the bettor being told to kick rocks. If a sportsbook does pay, it's very likely that isn't reported on the internet. It's non-news and vast majority at a certain level want anonymity. It's hilarious how dumb a person has to be to lack that understanding.
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So to be clear
You are calling me dumb and the Wizard as well? Because he also believes it's possible. He is one of the first people to post in this thread.
Quote: TomGPeople who cannot accept that a clickbait video or social media post could possibly be wrong even when they purposely avoid addressing the most obvious questions and explanations are dumb. I'll let you decide if that describes you.
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And people who believe sportsbooks and casinos haven't tried to get out of paying are naive.
I will let you decide if that describes you.
Quote: billryan
I'm pretty sure theft by conversion is in the bible as stealing. It all falls under the Eight Commandment, although it might be under the 10th.
It could be, I don't read fiction.
Yes you do!!!! I occasionally see you commenting on a few fictional threads around here.Quote: DRichQuote: billryan
I'm pretty sure theft by conversion is in the bible as stealing. It all falls under the Eight Commandment, although it might be under the 10th.
It could be, I don't read fiction.
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Quote: darkozAnd people who believe sportsbooks and casinos haven't tried to get out of paying are naive.
I will let you decide if that describes you.
There are some times it has happened. It’s very easy to see it didn’t happen with this Celtics bet, as even the bettor himself hasn’t said a single thing about it publicly. Dumb people might make a difference inference based on either a dumb video or their own delusions.
