What Is Proof?
So what proof would you need to believe a big money claim?
Let's divide it into two areas: slot/machine wins is the first category. Table games is the second category.
I'll go first.
For a machine win I'll need the W2G confirmed by the casino.
For a table win, unless a 1099 or W2G is issued I don't know what would constitute acceptable proof unless the casino provided tapes from the eye or if the entire session were livestreamed on YouTube and you saw the livestream or the replay.
Any other "proof" especially of a table game win could be manufactured.
Anyone else?
Quote: WizardI've asked a table games executive this question. Waiting on a reply. I tend to think a query could be run of the player's name and date and it would give a net win/loss, but this is just educated guessing.
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I'd be very interested in what the official response is and what the proof is?
If its simply a statement by a floor person -- no -- that doesnt work for me. It would have to be something that the casino has officially reported perhaps a cash transaction report which puts the casino's name and reputation and liability on the line. The tape from the eye would help.
Statements from employees can be bought. Especially when a wager is for 10k.
Quote: WizardI've asked a table games executive this question. Waiting on a reply. I tend to think a query could be run of the player's name and date and it would give a net win/loss, but this is just educated guessing.
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I can run all kinds of reports on play. We just had a player hit his 2nd $100,000 jackpot on High Card Flush (10% of jackpot for 6 card straight flush. That brought him to even for win loss the last 5 years on our books. Except then there's the taxes he's had to pay on each jackpot, so not so even on his side of the books.
ZCore13
Quote: AlanMendelsonThere have been many claims of big wins and there is one player in particular who has challenged forum members to a big money wager if others don't believe him.
So what proof would you need to believe a big money claim?
Let's divide it into two areas: slot/machine wins is the first category. Table games is the second category.
I'll go first.
For a machine win I'll need the W2G confirmed by the casino.
For a table win, unless a 1099 or W2G is issued I don't know what would constitute acceptable proof unless the casino provided tapes from the eye or if the entire session were livestreamed on YouTube and you saw the livestream or the replay.
Any other "proof" especially of a table game win could be manufactured.
Anyone else?
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What would a W2-G prove?
I can go into a particular casino I know and play $500 a spin. Probably lose thirty grand, then hit bonus round which pays me $28,000.
Does my W2-G prove I won $28,000 or did I just lose $2,000?
Quote: WizardMy friend, who has been the president of table games are various big properties, said if the play was rated, it would be easy to look up the net win/loss by date in the computer.
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Forgive me but casino employees are the wrong people to ask.
You should be asking Advantage Players how they can manipulate what their rating is.
For example, in the documentary you participated in, about blackjack players "Inside the Edge", in the first ten minutes I believe the guy puts RFID chips inside his pants legs to trigger bigger wagers being registered in the computer to hide his bet spread.
Once you know you can cause the computer to misreport even RFID, then what use trusting"win" reporting by the casino computer.
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonThere have been many claims of big wins and there is one player in particular who has challenged forum members to a big money wager if others don't believe him.
So what proof would you need to believe a big money claim?
Let's divide it into two areas: slot/machine wins is the first category. Table games is the second category.
I'll go first.
For a machine win I'll need the W2G confirmed by the casino.
For a table win, unless a 1099 or W2G is issued I don't know what would constitute acceptable proof unless the casino provided tapes from the eye or if the entire session were livestreamed on YouTube and you saw the livestream or the replay.
Any other "proof" especially of a table game win could be manufactured.
Anyone else?
link to original post
What would a W2-G prove?
I can go into a particular casino I know and play $500 a spin. Probably lose thirty grand, then hit bonus round which pays me $28,000.
Does my W2-G prove I won $28,000 or did I just lose $2,000?
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For example if someone claimed they hit a $1-million slot win a W-2G would show it. It wouldn't show their overall win/loss. That takes care of the claim of a slot win.
Now, about the guy who said he just won $200k at a table game session? How do you prove that?
Just enjoy the photos of the stacks of bills.
Quote: ChumpChangeMDawg doesn't need the money, ergo, he doesn't need to put up a challenge on this forum that has no basis of verification.
Just enjoy the photos of the stacks of bills.
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I'm not so certain.
He was pretty excited to receive the piddling $2,000 I handed over for him to meet the Wizard and have him watch him play.
In contrast, most of us have met the Wizard and even played with him and no one felt a need to charge anyone for the experience.
When I wish to prove my veracity to this forum, challenging people to put up money for them to find out never occurs to me.
Quote: darkozQuote: ChumpChangeMDawg doesn't need the money, ergo, he doesn't need to put up a challenge on this forum that has no basis of verification.
Just enjoy the photos of the stacks of bills.
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I'm not so certain.
He was pretty excited to receive the piddling $2,000 I handed over for him to meet the Wizard and have him watch him play.
In contrast, most of us have met the Wizard and even played with him and no one felt a need to charge anyone for the experience.
When I wish to prove my veracity to this forum, challenging people to put up money for them to find out never occurs to me.
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I agree. Who has a need to charge?
Quote: WizardMy friend, who has been the president of table games are various big properties, said if the play was rated, it would be easy to look up the net win/loss by date in the computer.
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Yes, having worked on player tracking systems for 25 years that is definitely true. The problem is the accuracy of the data inputted.
Quote: DRichQuote: WizardMy friend, who has been the president of table games are various big properties, said if the play was rated, it would be easy to look up the net win/loss by date in the computer.
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Yes, having worked on player tracking systems for 25 years that is definitely true. The problem is the accuracy of the data inputted.
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Which is why the IRS doesn't accept win/loss statements but will accept a player's own logs.
Hosts can probably pull some day level reports, as part of their hosting job (necessary to justify the action merits the comp in some cases). This is fudge-able, but I expect it's close. RFID cleverness isn't applicable at a 1 player table with chip inventory counted before and after play.
If you don't trust it, that's fair. The host would probably be fired if they took a bribe, and I don't believe the size of this bribe would be adequate to warrant such a carreer altering undertaking.
W2-G's aren't applicable. Marker slips wouldn't be valid to me, because I don't know if I'm seeing all of them.
There is a paperwork requirement on the Firebet for example. And someone hitting a $100k paigow jackpot would get some paperwork.
But at a blackjack or Baccarat session winning $200k there would be no government paperwork putting the casino on the line.
Quote: DieterIf you're a whale whose action is big enough to get your own line on the quarterly P&L statement, I'd trust it. I haven't looked, but my guess is this is not applicable for any of our esteemed forum members.
Hosts can probably pull some day level reports, as part of their hosting job (necessary to justify the action merits the comp in some cases). This is fudge-able, but I expect it's close. RFID cleverness isn't applicable at a 1 player table with chip inventory counted before and after play.
If you don't trust it, that's fair. The host would probably be fired if they took a bribe, and I don't believe the size of this bribe would be adequate to warrant such a carreer altering undertaking.
W2-G's aren't applicable. Marker slips wouldn't be valid to me, because I don't know if I'm seeing all of them.
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Hosts receive tips. Tips can really be bribes.
I don't believe a host making a false claim to a non-governmental, non-IRS, patron would even be illegal, except if it can be proven part of a scam to defraud.
Human deceit combined with human ingenuity is just too powerful to risk making such a wager.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDieter for certain jackpots at table games there are W2Gs or 1099s.
There is a paperwork requirement on the Firebet for example. And someone hitting a $100k paigow jackpot would get some paperwork.
But at a blackjack or Baccarat session winning $200k there would be no government paperwork putting the casino on the line.
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I believe the threshold for a W2-G is a 300 to 1 payout. I can believe that applies for the fire bet or certain progressives, but maybe not for this circumstance. I think I have received some kind of form for tournament winnings, because the cash prize was greater than the entry fee by a certain factor.
As to bribes gratuities, yes, I understand why someone might not trust such a report. I would need some degree of corroboration; my threshold may well be lower than yours.
I 𝙆𝙉𝙊𝙒 I wouldn't enjoy participating in a forum where 95% of the members don't believe my words - and I am being called upon to prove what I say
if I was winning gigantic sums I'd be quiet - I would know people would tend to believe my claims are false and why would I care_____???
after all I'm rolling in dough____________________________so who cares
for the attention it gets me______________?????
no, no, no, no, no, no________________________________no way in hell I would give 2 hoots about that
.
I dont get why certain people need to state how much they won at any form of gambling ..to me its personal BUT if someone does WTF who cares!!!Quote: daveyandersen1z core that was very interesting thanks for that response..
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"If you want to get rich, do it in the dark."
"Fame is often followed by a jail sentence."
I suspect that he would never have recommended proving large wins to anyone for any reason.
