Wildest swings... and up $17,500
I started playing blackjack, betting $25-50 per hand, and really did poorly, slowly down to about $600 left after an hour and a half. So I decided to change things up. With my last $600, I put $300 bets on two separate hands, and got two hard 17s against a 10. I was already up ready to walk away, said goodbye to the other players, ready for the lonely and sad drive home. Then suddenly the dealer busted. Then my luck changed. I started betting bigger and bigger (usually not a good idea), at one point betting $1000 on two hands at a time, and somehow got up to $23,500. The table (and dealer) were amazed. I said to myself I want to get to $25,000 and then I quit.
Then, suddenly, I went on one of the worst losing streaks I could imagine. I lost 18 of 20 hands. Within 10-15 minutes, I was back down to $600. I just lost almost $23,000 in 10 minutes. The pit boss who noticed my big betting and big winning before was stunned (and probably happy). Everyone at the table was amazed again.
So what did I do? I did the old $300 on two separate hands trick, all in again. I got terrible hands, a hard 15 and 14. Against an Ace. I was ready to walk again, having "lost" $23,500 over 10 minutes which I really could have used. Well, the dealer didn't have blackjack, I hit both hands and received a 20 on one hand and a 21 on the other, and the dealer turned over a 7 for an 18, and I was back in business.
Over the next half hour (and it was getting late), I somehow built back my $600 to $20,500. The table was again amazed. How can that be done twice? The last hand, I put $1000 bets on three separate hands, got terrible cards, but against a dealer 5, he busted, and that put me up over $20,000 which was my goal.
I walked away from the casino with $20,500, for a $17,500 profit. My best gambling take in one sitting ever. Essentially, I won it twice. What are the odds? Don't know if this encourages me to go back, or quit for a while...
Quote: austintxI started betting bigger and bigger (usually not a good idea), at one point betting $1000 on two hands at a time, and somehow got up to $23,500. The table (and dealer) were amazed. I said to myself I want to get to $25,000 and then I quit.
Why $25,000?
is that a lucky number?
Then why not $25,000 the second time?
There is a relationship between bet sizes, bankroll,win goals and bankroll ruin. Not my area of expertise.
Simple. the good luck fairy sprinkled you with fairy dust, then stopped by to sprinkle you again.Quote: austintxHow can that be done twice?
OK, put in simpler terms, shit happens. Sometimes it's good shit.
Will it happen again? Only one way to know, although I'd be somewhat surprised if it does.
The theory has always been that if you stand there grinding out small bets that house edge will be relentless whereas if you walk in with the cash-filled suitcase and bet the whole wad, you either win big or you lose big.
In real life, it must be a very exciting ride on that roller coaster.
15 minutes later I watched a woman put about 20 hundreds in that machine; she hit for $12k. She proceeded to play that $12k. She hit one more hand pay, I don't remember how much; $5k, maybe. But my point is that she came prepared to bet, and bet big. Losing a few thou in a slot was no big deal to her. The only difference between her and me or you is how we feel about that money. Charles Barkley would just be getting started at $20k.
Was driving 350 miles to Lake Charles to gamble away $3000 the best use of your money? Was there truly nothing you could think of to do with that $23,500 other than keep playing with it? And you may have escaped this time, but when you go back to the casino (as you surely will), do you think you'll be able to restrain yourself, or will you dump another $3000 in the blink of an eye?
Your results, given your bet sizes, weren't all that unusual, but to answer your question, each time you were down to the felt with those bad hands, you had about a 1 in 4 chance of survival, so getting out twice was a 15 to 1 shot. In other words, don't expect it to happen again any time soon.
I had fun, came home with money, and am happy. Will it happen again? Probably not, I am realistic. But you are right, I will try again. In the name of fun.
Quote: mkl654321and the fact that you're betting little discs of plastic instead of "real money",
Plastic? What casino has plastic chips?
Quote: JerryLoganI'm not afraid to say it: You have a gambling problem.
Yawn.
Quote: EvenBobPlastic? What casino has plastic chips?
The majority of them. All Bud Jones chips (USA) and Bourgogne et Grasset chips and plaques (Europe/UK) are injection-molded plastic.
http://www.gpigaming.com/usa_products_chips_bj.shtml
http://www.gpigaming.com/usa_products_chips_bg.shtml
Chipco chips are ceramic, and Paulson uses a thermoformed clay/composite material (I'm not sure what's in it these days, but it's more than just "clay"). The phrase "100% clay" is primarily marketing-speak used by home gaming supply vendors to distinguish 10g Paulson-style chips from the plastic-coated metal chips weighing 13g or so. "Plastic chips" means quite a bit more than you're thinking about. We're not just talking about the interlocking drug-store poker chips.
Quote: MathExtremistThe majority of them. .
Really. From Wikipedia: "The vast majority of authentic casino chips are "clay" chips but can be more accurately described as compression molded chips."
Yet you say the majority are plastic. Wiki has a lengthy article about it. The casinos I go to certainly don't have plastic chips, they're all clay, or a clay composite.
Quote: teddysmkl and Jerry are wet blankets. Not everybody is a grinder. Some people like to make infrequent visits to the casino and bet big. It's how they get their kicks. It's not a gambling problem, it's GAMBLING. Just because you or I would never bet like that doesn't mean it's bad. Sure, we could all just sit there for hours grinding out optimal E.V. plays (guilty), but that's not for everyone. Heck, if Austin gets a rush out betting $1000 when he's ahead, let him have his fun. I certainly won't begrudge anyone for that.
I don't think that you get 100 times as much fun from betting $1000 as you do from betting $10. As you get more and more "used to" making these big bets, you need to make bigger and bigger bets to give yourself the same adrenaline high. I've seen so many friends and acquaintances get into this trap--the $5 and $10 bets don't give that same thrill any more. So they bet quarters--but that stops being exciting. Now it's black chips--and pretty soon, a bad night can cost them several thousand dollars. They are not unlike the drug user who needs a greater and greater dosage to get high.
$1000 bets are too big for ANYONE's bankroll, excepting multi-millionaires. And yes, it IS a gambling problem if the best use you can think of for $3000 is to take it to the casinos and get a few minutes' worth of adrenaline fix. I, personally, value money. I have to work more than a month to clear that $3000. I guess that's why I react negatively to some guy's tale of how he decided to dump that amount of money in a casino to give himself a thrill. Heck, for fifty bucks, I'd be willing to give him the same sort of thrill thrill by dropping a weasel down his pants. And he can keep the weasel.
The inevitable denouement of this story is, of course, that the casino is going to reclaim that twenty grand that they've loaned him, and probably with interest. Unless anybody thinks that he'll quit after losing three grand next time. I wish him good luck, but that twenty grand win makes his chances in the future essentially zero. I know--I've seen it. Over and over.
Quote: MathExtremistThe majority of them. All Bud Jones chips (USA) and Bourgogne et Grasset chips and plaques (Europe/UK) are injection-molded plastic.
http://www.gpigaming.com/usa_products_chips_bj.shtml
http://www.gpigaming.com/usa_products_chips_bg.shtml
(Edit: Sorry. I just realized after posting this that I am helping to drag the thread off-topic.)
Interesting.
I collect souvenir chips ($1 denomination) from each of the casinos that I visit. My collection currently contains chips from 232 casinos in the US, Canada, and Caribbean, including all of the current and some of the now-gone casinos in southern Nevada that offer(ed) blackjack and/or craps.
I went to the web sites you cited and looked at the mold designs that they offer. I then compared them to the chips in my collection. I can only identify one of my chips as approximating one of the designs shown for Bud Jones chips, and that is the chip from the Blue Water Casino in Parker, AZ. Many of my souvenir chips have similar mold designs, but not ones like those shown on the Bud Jones chips web site.
Do you think that I just am having difficulty recognizing Bud Jones chips or that they just don't sell to any of the casinos I have ever been to?
Quote: DocI can only identify one of my chips as approximating one of the designs shown for Bud Jones chips
Are you saying you have almost no plastic chips in your collection?
No, I can't make that statement, because I am not sure how to identify a "plastic" chip.Quote: EvenBobAre you saying you have almost no plastic chips in your collection?
None of the chips in my collection are anything like the definitely-plastic chips I own for home games. Most of them appear to be molded of something that I formerly thought was a ceramic (i.e., clay) or composite. Those typically have significant texture, with words or images depressed into the surface and either a paper (?) label or metal disk in the center. They have a general appearance similar to what I think I am seeing in the ones on the Bud Jones chips web site, but they don't have the same mold patterns that Bud Jones chips offer, according to the site.
Thus, I just suspect that my souvenir chips must have come from a different supplier. It surprised me that the Las Vegas supplier identified in MathExtremist's earlier post apparently doesn't supply to any of the Las Vegas casinos (or I just can't recognize their designs in my collection.)
Some of my other chips have completely smooth surfaces and seem to have some kind of coating or film. I am not sure how any of these chips are actually manufactured.
Edit: I went back and re-read MathExtremist's post. He cited two web sites for Bud Jones chips (USA) and Bourgogne et Grasset chips, and that is what I had looked at before. But MathExtremist had also mentioned Paulson and Chipco chips and described them as "thermoformed clay/composite" and "ceramic" respectively.
I looked at web sites for those chips, and the Paulson designs seem to match many of the chips in my collection. A very quick glance at the Chipco site leads me to think they may be the source of the smooth-surface chips I mentioned above. This makes me think that my collection is indeed almost exclusively (perhaps exclusively) composed of "thermoformed clay/composite" or "ceramic" chips. (Further edit: I do have eleven $1 metal tokens in the collection, from casinos that do not use the "clay" chips for that denomination.")
But I still don't know enough about chip manufacturing to be certain.
Quote: Doc
This makes me think that my collection is indeed almost exclusively (perhaps exclusively) coposed of "thermoformed clay/composite" or "ceramic" chips.
I'm curious as to where MathExtremist got the impression that the 'majority' of chips are plastic in casinos, when the overwhelming evidence points to clay. Paulson (division of GPI), GPI (Gaming Partners International), ASM (Atlantic Standard Moulding), PGI (Palm Gaming International), Blue Chip Co (BCC) and Chipco make 99% of the chips used in Vegas.
Quote: EvenBobReally. From Wikipedia: "The vast majority of authentic casino chips are "clay" chips but can be more accurately described as compression molded chips."
Yet you say the majority are plastic. Wiki has a lengthy article about it. The casinos I go to certainly don't have plastic chips, they're all clay, or a clay composite.
There's no contradiction there. I think you're focused on a narrow notion of common plastic materials like PVC or PP. As I mentioned, I'm not sure of the exact compound used in Paulson chips, but even their own website puts "clay" in quotes and says there are 13 different components to their thermo-compressed compound. Whatever they're made of, it's very clearly not the same material used in throwing clay pottery. Blue Chip Company also puts "clay" in quotes on its pages. I refer you back to Wikipedia:
"Plastic: A plastic material is any of a wide range of synthetic or semi-synthetic organic amorphous solids[citation needed] used in the manufacture of industrial products.
...
The word plastic is derived from the Greek πλαστικός (plastikos) meaning capable of being shaped or molded, from πλαστός (plastos) meaning molded.[1][2] It refers to their malleability, or plasticity during manufacture, that allows them to be cast, pressed, or extruded into a variety of shapes—such as films, fibers, plates, tubes, bottles, boxes, and much more.
...
There are two types of plastics: thermoplastics and thermosetting polymers. Thermoplastics are the plastics that don't undergo chemical change in their composition when heated and can be moulded again and again; examples are polyethylene, polystyrene, polyvinyl chloride and polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)[3]. Thermosets can melt and take shape once; after they have solidified, they stay solid."
Quote: MathExtremistThere's no contradiction there.
Gimmee a fricking break. To call clay chips 'plastic' just because you made a false statement is so much of a stretch that its laughable.
"The VAST MAJORITY of authentic casino chips are "clay" chips but can be more accurately described as compression molded chips." A much smaller number are made from mold injected resin, which can be called plastic, but they are by far in the minority.
Quote: austintxThis was the strangest gambling experience ever. I went to Lake Charles LA (long drive from Austin Texas which really is one of the farthest big cities in the US away from a casino -- perhaps a good thing) with $3000 in my pocket. I brought no credit cards or debit cards as I said $3000 is a lot of money, but I could afford to lose it but nothing more.
I started playing blackjack, betting $25-50 per hand, and really did poorly, slowly down to about $600 left after an hour and a half. So I decided to change things up. With my last $600, I put $300 bets on two separate hands, and got two hard 17s against a 10. I was already up ready to walk away, said goodbye to the other players, ready for the lonely and sad drive home. Then suddenly the dealer busted. Then my luck changed. I started betting bigger and bigger (usually not a good idea), at one point betting $1000 on two hands at a time, and somehow got up to $23,500. The table (and dealer) were amazed. I said to myself I want to get to $25,000 and then I quit.
Then, suddenly, I went on one of the worst losing streaks I could imagine. I lost 18 of 20 hands. Within 10-15 minutes, I was back down to $600. I just lost almost $23,000 in 10 minutes. The pit boss who noticed my big betting and big winning before was stunned (and probably happy). Everyone at the table was amazed again.
So what did I do? I did the old $300 on two separate hands trick, all in again. I got terrible hands, a hard 15 and 14. Against an Ace. I was ready to walk again, having "lost" $23,500 over 10 minutes which I really could have used. Well, the dealer didn't have blackjack, I hit both hands and received a 20 on one hand and a 21 on the other, and the dealer turned over a 7 for an 18, and I was back in business.
Over the next half hour (and it was getting late), I somehow built back my $600 to $20,500. The table was again amazed. How can that be done twice? The last hand, I put $1000 bets on three separate hands, got terrible cards, but against a dealer 5, he busted, and that put me up over $20,000 which was my goal.
I walked away from the casino with $20,500, for a $17,500 profit. My best gambling take in one sitting ever. Essentially, I won it twice. What are the odds? Don't know if this encourages me to go back, or quit for a while...
I guess you gotta bet big to win big. Congratulations.
Quote: JerryLoganLook at what this thread has degenerated into. When the thread originator came on and was basically BEGGING for people to understand about and sympathize over his obvious sickness, he instead gets a slap in the face as the discussion turns into whether there's clay or plastics chips in use.
Jerry, as many negative things as I may have thought about some of your posts, you are absolutely correct on this one (other than possibly the comment about "sickness"). And I am much to blame. I even apologized back on page 2 when I realized my mistake:
Quote: Doc(Edit: Sorry. I just realized after posting this that I am helping to drag the thread off-topic.)
EvenBob and I should have taken the chip discussion inspired by MathExtremist's post to a different thread, and I didn't mean for it to carry on so long.
Quote: DocJerry, as many negative things as I may have thought about some of your posts, you are absolutely correct on this one (other than possibly the comment about "sickness"). And I am much to blame. I even apologized back on page 2 when I realized my mistake:
EvenBob and I should have taken the chip discussion inspired by MathExtremist's post to a different thread, and I didn't mean for it to carry on so long.
One of the more odious aspects of "internet culture" is that so-called "hijacking" of a thread is considered by some to be on a par with child molestation. There are always self-appointed message board police available to shout down the transgressors.
I think that's a shame. In real life (which, I'll concede, many internet posters don't experience very often), discussions digress, diverge, go off on tangents, shift focus, and even give birth to entirely new discussions. That's what discussions DO. If every time someone wanted to mention a tangential point, he had to "START A NEW THREAD!!!!!", we'd have one of two outcomes: a) hundreds of new threads started every day, or b) people intimidated from posting their "unfaithful to the topic at hand" thoughts because they don't want to get blasted by the "board police".
In short, Doc, I think you and the other posters have nothing to apologize for.
Quote: mkl654321One of the more odious aspects of "internet culture" is that so-called "hijacking" of a thread is considered by some to be on a par with child molestation. There are always self-appointed message board police available to shout down the transgressors.
I think that's a shame. In real life (which, I'll concede, many internet posters don't experience very often), discussions digress, diverge, go off on tangents, shift focus, and even give birth to entirely new discussions. That's what discussions DO. If every time someone wanted to mention a tangential point, he had to "START A NEW THREAD!!!!!", we'd have one of two outcomes: a) hundreds of new threads started every day, or b) people intimidated from posting their "unfaithful to the topic at hand" thoughts because they don't want to get blasted by the "board police".
In short, Doc, I think you and the other posters have nothing to apologize for.
There's a TV commercial out now that makes fun of people "taking off on tangents" based on words they just heard from others. It references "information overload" and I believe it's put on by Bing.
Bing.
Quote: mkl654321One of the more odious aspects of "internet culture" is that so-called "hijacking" of a thread is considered by some to be on a par with child molestation. There are always self-appointed message board police available to shout down the transgressors.
I think that's a shame. In real life (which, I'll concede, many internet posters don't experience very often), discussions digress, diverge, go off on tangents, shift focus, and even give birth to entirely new discussions. That's what discussions DO. If every time someone wanted to mention a tangential point, he had to "START A NEW THREAD!!!!!", we'd have one of two outcomes: a) hundreds of new threads started every day, or b) people intimidated from posting their "unfaithful to the topic at hand" thoughts because they don't want to get blasted by the "board police".
In short, Doc, I think you and the other posters have nothing to apologize for.
It's the natural result of attempting to impose a rigid, user-defined hierarchical structure onto what is ultimately unstructured information: conversations in human language that naturally flow from topic to topic. That rigid structure is easy to implement technologically but simply doesn't match the quality of the information.
Complaining about thread hijacking in a threaded discussion forum is a bit like complaining that its hard to paint your house with your hand - and then faulting your hand for not being a good painting device. It's simply the wrong tool for the job. Discussion forums aren't typically designed to organize content semantically - they organize by date, by poster, and by thread (e.g. post B is a response to post A). Comprehending semantic information in natural language, and then deriving an organization based thereupon, is a very difficult computational problem -- much more so than using a paintbrush.
Quote: Doc
EvenBob and I should have taken the chip discussion inspired by MathExtremist's post to a different thread, and I didn't mean for it to carry on so long.
This is a conversation, nothing more. As such, it grows new branches and goes in different directions. I've been on forums since '92 when there was nothing but Usenet. Even then, there were people that came unglued if the conversation veered off topic, like we were being graded or something. There is always some anal retentive compulsive type (Jerry Logan) who just can't it when things don't go as planned. Oh well.
Quote: EvenBobThis is a conversation, nothing more. As such, it grows new branches and goes in different directions. I've been on forums since '92 when there was nothing but Usenet. Even then, there were people that came unglued if the conversation veered off topic, like we were being graded or something. There is always some anal retentive compulsive type (Jerry Logan) who just can't it when things don't go as planned. Oh well.
If you weren't in such a hurry to look stupid Bob, that might make some sense.
