EvenBob
September 17th, 2022 at 11:31:05 AM
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Quote: SOOPOOYou are questioning what DO and Axel do although ‘YOU HAVE NO PERSONAL EXPERIENCE’ doing it!
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Not quite. I don't care much what they do or don't do. I might step in when they they claim that this or that is the way it is, in response to something someone else is ACTUALLY doing, and they have no personal experience with it.
Point to where I have said that D.Oz does not get free play? As far as whatever A.Wolf is doing, who knows. Point to where I commented on whatever A.Wolf is doing, because how could I comment on nothing? he rarely tells us what he does. Few care anyway about what he has to say because most of what he does for years now is occasionally step in to try to put in his unadmitted arbiter input on that no it's not like that no it's not like this, and of course, it is evident that he's talking about something from the distant past that he may or may not have experienced personally. We never even get the exact figures of whatever they are recollecting from either him or D.Oz - from A.Wolf because he says he can't remember exactly, and not from D.Oz either because he throws out some "$20K a week" figure and then says "but not every week." Imprecision, galore!
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
September 17th, 2022 at 11:37:31 AM
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AxelWolf rarely miss speaks, but whenever I do I'm willing to admit it or perhaps there's a reason. But, I'm jot afraid to backtack or take back something I said that was idiotic or regarded. I really don't give a flying F if I F up and make a mistake, I can freely admit it. I can change my mind, change my views, change my thinking, change my addidude etc. and that's that, it is what it is. I'm always willing to admit when I make mistakes.Quote: AlanMendelsonThanks for your reply Darkoz but don't you think Axel should be responding himself?
After all, Axel wrote "They 100% know for a fact their next bet will pay off."
Does he mean to say his next hand or spin will be a winner?
Or did he misspeak?
Axel? Are you able to tell your next push of the button will deliver a winner? Are you able to tell the next cards dealt will give you a winner? Are you able to tell the next roll of the dice or spin of the wheel will give you a winner?
Or, Axel, when you said "They 100% know for a fact their next bet will pay off" did you mean something else?
Now, Darkoz, let's see what Axel says. Perhaps he can control the RNG with his mind, or with mind over matter CONTROL dice, roulette, and cards?
Or maybe Axel misspoke?
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 17th, 2022 at 11:39:39 AM
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If you can't remember exactly what you did, you can't be wrong about recollecting it!
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
September 17th, 2022 at 11:48:35 AM
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Sorry, I have been traveling and have limited time and internet service. Just checking in when I don't have much else I can do.Quote: MDawgIf you can't remember exactly what you did, you can't be wrong about recollecting it!
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Like at the airport.
I should have read the entire thread before making any comments. I tend to read the first post and comment before reading the rest of the thread.
Quickly.
My comments to Alan have nothing to do with past playing its all current and your assumptions are wrong. PS I'm still willing to prove I can do the W2G thing.
From now on, Whenever I make a claim about something, if t's not something still possible...I will make sure I note that it my post, so you can stop claiming I'm talking solely about the past.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Sep 17, 2022
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 17th, 2022 at 12:03:23 PM
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Quote: TigerWuComing soon... EB explains his scratch-off lottery ticket system....
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Does it differ from the already established successful systems?
May the cards fall in your favor.
September 17th, 2022 at 12:07:38 PM
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Can you explain the difference between a betting-system and a method.Quote: Dieter]
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 17th, 2022 at 12:08:29 PM
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Quote: DieterQuote: TigerWuComing soon... EB explains his scratch-off lottery ticket system....
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Does it differ from the already established successful systems?
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What are they?
Quote: AxelWolfCan you explain the difference between a betting-system and a method.Quote: Dieter]
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System, strategy, and method are all synonymous in my book.
September 17th, 2022 at 12:18:57 PM
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Let me make something crystal clear for the umpteenth time because everybody keeps getting it wrong. The math surrounding roulette is 100% CORRECT. Every bit of it is correct. This math is derived from betting randomly on random outcomes. I do not bet randomly, I can occasionally find a situation that lets me bet in a non-random fashion. So the math that was used for random bets against random outcomes does not apply to me on that bet. Not the next 10 bets not the next five 5 just this one bet. Get it? If you get it quit misquoting me all the time.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2022 at 12:22:44 PM
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Well... I would assume we need a way to separate proven methods that actually gain an advantage over the house vs non proven systems. If you can prove mathematical evidence or strong apparent evidence your method gives you an advantage that's a method. If you can't or are not willing prove/provide that information it should be a system.Quote: TigerWuQuote: DieterQuote: TigerWuComing soon... EB explains his scratch-off lottery ticket system....
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Does it differ from the already established successful systems?
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What are they?Quote: AxelWolfCan you explain the difference between a betting-system and a method.Quote: Dieter]
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System, strategy, and method are all synonymous in my book.
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 17th, 2022 at 12:25:41 PM
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Quote: EvenBobLet me make something crystal clear for the umpteenth time because everybody keeps getting it wrong. The math surrounding roulette is 100% CORRECT. Every bit of it is correct. This math is derived from betting randomly on random outcomes. I do not bet randomly, I can occasionally find a situation that lets me bet in a non-random fashion. So the math that was used for random bets against random outcomes does not apply to me on that bet. Not the next 10 bets not the next five 5 just this one bet. Get it? If you get it quit misquoting me all the time.
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LOL
Get it guys? Math does not apply to EvenBob. He has found a way to defy the known laws of reality and can predict a Roulette spin with 80% accuracy, something that, if ever actually proven, would make him one of the most famous individuals in the worlds of gambling and mathematics. Not to mention exceedingly wealthy.
So stop misquoting him!
Quote: AxelWolfWell... I would assume we need a way to separate proven methods that actually gain an advantage over the house vs non proven systems. If you can prove mathematical evidence or strong apparent evidence your method gives you an advantage that's a method. If you can't or are not willing prove/provide that information it should be a system.
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Maybe....I don't think the terminology is all that important, but I do understand your position.
Basic strategy is mathematically sound and referred to as a "strategy."
Wikipedia refers to card counting as both a "strategy" and a "system."
EB can't prove his Roulette method works but he still calls it a "method."
September 17th, 2022 at 12:34:22 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfYes, it is your bad. I would gladly make you a side wager.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: AxelWolfQuote: AlanMendelson
He guesses, just as all of us do every time we place a bet. Even the best of the APs don't know if their next bet will pay off. For them it's also an educated guess.
YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN. There are many situations and times an advantage player isn't just guessing. They 100% know for a fact their next bet will pay off(barring any strange act of God such as a malfunction or whatever ), not only do they know it will pay off, they oftentimes know they will make a profit.
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I'm sorry. I should have known that you know when a casino bet is guaranteed to hit.
My bad.
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Whatever the case...BE BETTER ALAN, BE BETTER.
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I will concede you know a win is coming on those few slot machines such as the Ocean bubbles or scarab or whatever theyre called.
And I'm sure those filled screens are just sitting there waiting for you to take your seat as a vulture because the previous player abandoned the game just as the payoff presented itself.
Now tell me about roulette and blackjack and craps and Let It Ride and Ultimate Texas Holdem?
September 17th, 2022 at 1:01:07 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfCan you explain the difference between a betting-system and a method.Quote: Dieter]
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Must I?
I thought I just needed to watch for people trying to profit by selling their scheme, rather than applying it.
May the cards fall in your favor.
September 17th, 2022 at 1:01:42 PM
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Finding a situation to let you bet in a non-random way is not that difficult. What's difficult is learning how to exploit it. The math involved by the experts only applies to betting randomly and it's naturally assumed for whatever reason that all you can do is bet randomly. I have found that this is occasionally not true and you can place a bet in a non-random fashion which changes the math on that bet. Does it not? The math is derived from a very specific set of circumstances and if you change the circumstances it changes the math. Isn't this true for everything? Change the circumstances the math was derived from and that math no longer applies. This is not brain surgery, it's a fact. Applying the traditional math to when I make a bet is comparing apples to oranges.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2022 at 1:10:27 PM
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Quote: TigerWuQuote: DieterQuote: TigerWuComing soon... EB explains his scratch-off lottery ticket system....
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Does it differ from the already established successful systems?
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What are they?
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If I knew that, I'd be travelling the country and looking at every scratch-ticket vendor's display for certain situations.
May the cards fall in your favor.
September 17th, 2022 at 1:15:08 PM
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Quote: EvenBobFinding a situation to let you bet in a non-random way is not that difficult. What's difficult is learning how to exploit it. The math involved by the experts only applies to betting randomly and it's naturally assumed for whatever reason that all you can do is bet randomly. I have found that this is occasionally not true and you can place a bet in a non-random fashion which changes the math on that bet. Does it not? The math is derived from a very specific set of circumstances and if you change the circumstances it changes the math. Isn't this true for everything? Change the circumstances the math was derived from and that math no longer applies. This is not brain surgery, it's a fact. Applying the traditional math to when I make a bet is comparing apples to oranges.
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This doesn't work with Roulette or most other casino games.
September 17th, 2022 at 1:26:13 PM
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I'm thinking about going back to playing 2 dozens or two columns at the same time online. I do really well at that and my hit rate is closer to 90% but the downside is you have to bet two units to win one unit so when you lose it takes longer to make your profit. You're expected to get 2/3 of them right just betting randomly so it's not that difficult if you know how to read sleepers. But I'm only trying to make one unit so I'm going to try it for a while. I've had some really long winning streaks betting two columns or two dozens but I don't play that way online.
Years ago there was a guy betting on the 1st and 3rd dozens and he started winning because the second doesn't went to sleep. And it slept for a really long time like 13 or 14 spins and the guy was winning all kinds of money. At one point I told him that when the second dozen woke up he's going to start losing and I broke a cardinal rule of mine about wising up a chump. He totally ignored me and when the second dozen woke up he kept betting on first and third and of course he lost all his money. Then he accused the dealer of cheating.. LOL
Years ago there was a guy betting on the 1st and 3rd dozens and he started winning because the second doesn't went to sleep. And it slept for a really long time like 13 or 14 spins and the guy was winning all kinds of money. At one point I told him that when the second dozen woke up he's going to start losing and I broke a cardinal rule of mine about wising up a chump. He totally ignored me and when the second dozen woke up he kept betting on first and third and of course he lost all his money. Then he accused the dealer of cheating.. LOL
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2022 at 1:26:37 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: AxelWolfYes, it is your bad. I would gladly make you a side wager.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: AxelWolfQuote: AlanMendelson
He guesses, just as all of us do every time we place a bet. Even the best of the APs don't know if their next bet will pay off. For them it's also an educated guess.
YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN. There are many situations and times an advantage player isn't just guessing. They 100% know for a fact their next bet will pay off(barring any strange act of God such as a malfunction or whatever ), not only do they know it will pay off, they oftentimes know they will make a profit.
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I'm sorry. I should have known that you know when a casino bet is guaranteed to hit.
My bad.
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Whatever the case...BE BETTER ALAN, BE BETTER.
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I will concede you know a win is coming on those few slot machines such as the Ocean bubbles or scarab or whatever theyre called.
And I'm sure those filled screens are just sitting there waiting for you to take your seat as a vulture because the previous player abandoned the game just as the payoff presented itself.
Now tell me about roulette and blackjack and craps and Let It Ride and Ultimate Texas Holdem?
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Alan, Axel never mentioned Roulette and blackjack and craps and Texas holdem.
Axel stated that there are advantage play situations where an AP knows with 100% accuracy that the next bet or wager will be profitable.
You decided that must mean Axel can detect these Advantageous situations at EVERY possible game offered.
AP's find the opportunity, they don't create it. Hilarious that even conceding spins on Scarab where you now admit Axel's comment is correct you still belittle it by saying good luck finding the opportunity. I assure you there are vultures who make a full time living searching for Scarabs and multipliers left behind. It may not always be your idea of a Nirvana situation like finding wilds just waiting for you across the board but it's an industry out there.
All sharks are fish. That doesn't mean all fish are sharks.
Axel comment about 100% next wager guarantee of profit is a similar situation. 100% next wagers are winners can be found in games. Not all games have 100% next wager winners
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 17th, 2022 at 1:31:22 PM
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You should try the Cuban System...
Two units on Black and one unit on 3rd Column.
OR
Two units on Red and one unit on 2nd Column.
Two units on Black and one unit on 3rd Column.
OR
Two units on Red and one unit on 2nd Column.
September 17th, 2022 at 1:36:18 PM
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Quote: TigerWuYou should try the Cuban System...
Two units on Black and one unit on 3rd Column.
I thought the Cuban system was Black Forest ham and roasted pork with mustard, pickles, and swiss cheese pressed between two pieces of bread.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
September 17th, 2022 at 1:37:33 PM
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Quote: TigerWuQuote: darkozOn a site begun by a mathematician how are many of EB's recent posts not insults to the forum and Michael
He has literally said multiple times that math people don't understand Roulette (anyone besides EB believe Michael Shackleford doesn't understand how Roulette is affected by math? Or that the Wizard never played Roulette?).
Multiple people on here have already said this thread is just a troll thread. If true I thought trolling was against the rules on this forum.
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Trolling is definitely against forum rules. I mentioned pages ago how it was odd that the mods have been very hands off with this thread despite it basically spitting in the face of what this forum is supposed to be about. EB is being allowed to get away with things that would get other people banned. Why, I don't know. I suspect it's simply because he generates so much content for the forum and the mods want the traffic.
EDIT:
Forum Rule 12 excerpt: "If the totality of one's posts is one huge lie, then it becomes trolling."
EB has claimed he is not gambling when playing Roulette because he knows he will always win.
EB has claimed a consistent 80% hit rate on a bet with a 47.37% probability.
EB has claimed a 100% session win rate for up to 500-1000 sessions in the last year alone.
Those are the highlights in my opinion. And in almost 50 pages he has provided zero proof or evidence that he can consistently beat Roulette.
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1. First, EB is one of the most prolific posters on this forum, and the "totality of his posts" are not one huge lie. Let's be fair, whatever anyone thinks about this thread, he posts prolifically on many topics.
2. After years of not explaining his claims about Roulette, EB has posted an explanation in this one thread. I understand that many/most of us are having trouble believing a record of long-term winning based on this newly-revealed explanation. However, EB's well-written explanations and his responses to questions (which are consistently polite, responsive and earnest) are part of an on-topic conversation in a single thread; and in my mind are not close to being "trolling." See #4 for my personal definition of trolling.
3. To Axelwolf: EB is not selling or promoting a system of any kind. Here is a definition of "betting system" that I have poached from another site:
"A betting system is a structured way of placing bets at a casino game that’s supposed to help you win more often and/or lose less often. Betting systems always involve raising and/or lowering the sizes of your bets based on what’s happened on your previous bet. "
EB's method of looking for patterns in the wheel outcomes is NOT a betting system. Axel, I know you're a smart guy and I hope this adequately answers your question about "Why is this not a system?"
4. The following is a statement of general principle: I am not particularly sympathetic with forum members who continually post, over and over again, that another member should be suspended or nuked. When that is done very frequently, it may indeed qualify as trolling. No person wants to be hounded by another forum member who continually follows them through the forum and advocates that the person should be suspended or nuked. That is one form of trolling. IMO, trolling is loosely "online harrassment" or "online provocation to the larger body of people, particularly with an apparent intent to disrupt." As in most things, the details will matter.
5. TigerWu: You are free to criticize the moderators and we do listen to what you (and others) say, although, as always, we would prefer you would move it to the "Discussion about the suspension list' thread. Wiz is away from the forum for a couple of days and is unable to personally respond to your challenges about his decisions, so please be fair and keep that in mind. In this post, I have tried to respond to some of your general points about the moderation.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
September 17th, 2022 at 1:42:27 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: AxelWolfYes, it is your bad. I would gladly make you a side wager.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: AxelWolfQuote: AlanMendelson
He guesses, just as all of us do every time we place a bet. Even the best of the APs don't know if their next bet will pay off. For them it's also an educated guess.
YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN. There are many situations and times an advantage player isn't just guessing. They 100% know for a fact their next bet will pay off(barring any strange act of God such as a malfunction or whatever ), not only do they know it will pay off, they oftentimes know they will make a profit.
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I'm sorry. I should have known that you know when a casino bet is guaranteed to hit.
My bad.
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Whatever the case...BE BETTER ALAN, BE BETTER.
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I will concede you know a win is coming on those few slot machines such as the Ocean bubbles or scarab or whatever theyre called.
And I'm sure those filled screens are just sitting there waiting for you to take your seat as a vulture because the previous player abandoned the game just as the payoff presented itself.
Now tell me about roulette and blackjack and craps and Let It Ride and Ultimate Texas Holdem?
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NO ONE SAID IT IS COMMON OR EASY! YOU said it couldn’t be done. I gave you an example of when it could be done. Now you are asking a totally different question. There are no guaranteed win opportunities on the 4 games you mention. There might be +EV opportunities but not a guarantee.
As far as the ‘vulture’ opportunities, I am frankly stunned by how many great opportunities are left on machines. None of them are guaranteed wins, but it’s pretty easy to scour a bank of machines and make $30 -$50 at my casino on average. And yes, it is possible on any given day for me to lose.
No, Alan, I am no pro and don’t go to the casino for that $30-$50. I go to play -EV Pai Gow with friends. But I do enjoy picking up the free money. And by the way, I’m actually WAY ahead of that $30-$50 guesstimate, due to being lucky and having got a Royal with a multiplier as well as 4 aces with a kicker multiplied.
September 17th, 2022 at 1:47:33 PM
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Here is a wikipedia definition of internet trolling.
"In Internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as social media (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc.), a newsgroup, forum, chat room, online video game, or blog), with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. This is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or manipulating a political process. Even so, Internet trolling can also be defined as purposefully causing confusion or harm to other users online, for no reason at all.
"In Internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as social media (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc.), a newsgroup, forum, chat room, online video game, or blog), with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. This is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or manipulating a political process. Even so, Internet trolling can also be defined as purposefully causing confusion or harm to other users online, for no reason at all.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
September 17th, 2022 at 1:47:50 PM
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When I think about it this thread is really about learning how to bet in a non-random way. Obviously it can be done because I do it consistently. That's the point of virtually betting before making the actual bet to see if you are arriving at non random conclusions. The outcomes weave in and out of chaos into semi chaos and when it's semi chaotic you can sometimes place a non-random bet that has a good chance of being correct. It took me a long time to realize that this is what I was doing. A non-random bet is one that's based on hints and clues from past outcomes did allow you to make a correct educated guess as to what the next spin wheel. I think people who bet on horse racing for a living do the same kind of thing. They gather all kinds of information from the past and combine that with information in the present and use it to find hints and clues as the which horse might win. Giving them a great advantage over just picking horses at random.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2022 at 1:50:18 PM
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Quote: gordonm888Here is a wikipedia definition of internet trolling.
"In Internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as social media (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc.), a newsgroup, forum, chat room, online video game, or blog), with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. This is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or manipulating a political process. Even so, Internet trolling can also be defined as purposefully causing confusion or harm to other users online, for no reason at all.
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Unfortunately trolling has come to mean any post that you don't like for whatever reason. If you believe one way and somebody else believes another way why of course that person is trolling. When he's actually doing no such thing he's just expressing a different belief than you. The vast majority of people have no idea what's the definition of trolling really is.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2022 at 1:50:51 PM
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Quote: gordonm888
1. First, EB is one of the most prolific posters on this forum, and the "totality of his posts" are not one huge lie. Let's be fair, whatever anyone thinks about this thread, he posts prolifically on many topics.
I should clarify that I was implying that the "totality of his posts" in this case was only referring to the totality of his posts in the Roulette thread. I definitely agree that many of his other posts are not indicative of trolling.
Quote:5. TigerWu: You are free to criticize the moderators and we do listen to what you (and others) say, although, as always, we would prefer you would move it to the "Discussion about the suspension list' thread. .....
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I will refrain from any further meta-discussions regarding the rules or trolling in this Roulette thread.
September 17th, 2022 at 1:57:31 PM
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Quote: DRichQuote: TigerWuYou should try the Cuban System...
Two units on Black and one unit on 3rd Column.
I thought the Cuban system was Black Forest ham and roasted pork with mustard, pickles, and swiss cheese pressed between two pieces of bread.
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You think of everything in terms of food don't you. I thought about you the other day when I saw some hot dogs cooking in a 7-Eleven. Not as good as gas station hot dogs but then what is.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2022 at 2:00:13 PM
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Quote: gordonm888Here is a wikipedia definition of internet trolling.
"In Internet slang, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory, insincere, digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as social media (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc.), a newsgroup, forum, chat room, online video game, or blog), with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses, or manipulating others' perception. This is typically for the troll's amusement, or to achieve a specific result such as disrupting a rival's online activities or manipulating a political process. Even so, Internet trolling can also be defined as purposefully causing confusion or harm to other users online, for no reason at all.
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That definition isn't very good as a pro-EB case
EB has made divisive comments (witness this thread), made mathematically unsound comments in a math oriented forum which has resulted in provoking readers into emotional responses. He has stated other responses are faulty due to our bad or inadequate perception of math. EB has said multiple times that this makes him chuckle and that's his word!
Like literally that Wikipedia description is a description of this thread.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 17th, 2022 at 2:12:59 PM
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Quote: darkoz
Alan, Axel never mentioned Roulette and blackjack and craps and Texas holdem.
This is what I'd call validation by minutiae, or nitpicking to make your point
This is why forum arguments go on forever.
To steal a line from Shark Tank, I'm out.
Go on without me. I know you'll nitpick some other minutiae to proclaim your victory.
September 17th, 2022 at 2:25:11 PM
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So now EB has a method that wins 90% of the time, per the above.
Gotta wonder why EB limits himself to a one unit win?
With a 90% or even an 80% win rate as he claims he should bet max on every spin and either bankrupt the casino or be barred.
Does not compute.
Gotta wonder why EB limits himself to a one unit win?
With a 90% or even an 80% win rate as he claims he should bet max on every spin and either bankrupt the casino or be barred.
Does not compute.
"What, me worry?"
September 17th, 2022 at 2:40:29 PM
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Quote: MrVSo now EB has a method that wins 90% of the time, per the above.
Gotta wonder why EB limits himself to a one unit win?
With a 90% or even an 80% win rate as he claims he should bet max on every spin and either bankrupt the casino or be barred.
Does not compute.
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Nothing wrong with stopping your session after a net win of one unit, but if your win rate is 80-90% that one unit should be in the thousands of dollars. Otherwise you're just doing it wrong.
September 17th, 2022 at 2:48:33 PM
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Quote: darkoz
That definition isn't very good as a pro-EB case
EB has made divisive comments (witness this thread), made mathematically unsound comments in a math oriented forum which has resulted in provoking readers into emotional responses. \
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I usually ignore your posts because there's so many of them and virtually empty of any useful content but I have to respond to this one. I do not make unsound mathematical comments I simply state that the math about roulette is 100% correct, every bit of it. This math is based on betting randomly on random outcomes. When I see a place to make a bet it is not a random bet. I used a lot of information to make that bet, information that has proved to me in the past that I might have some indication as to what the next spin might be. If I am betting in a true non-random fashion the math used on random betting does not apply to me. This is an inarguable fact. Prove that this cannot be done. You have no idea, all you can do is express your opinion and that and a dollar will get you a coffee at McDonald's.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2022 at 3:02:23 PM
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Quote: EvenBobIf I am betting in a true non-random fashion the math used on random betting does not apply to me. This is an inarguable fact.
Wrong.
You are still betting on a random game. The Roulette wheel doesn't care about how many patterns you can find or how "non-random" your betting pattern is. The math does not change, and you are 100% beholden to it. Your "inarguable facts" are utter nonsense.
September 17th, 2022 at 3:22:31 PM
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This thread is 54 pages long
Is that a new record for debating something (math/house edge) that is not even debatable?
Is that a new record for debating something (math/house edge) that is not even debatable?
It’s all about making that GTA
September 17th, 2022 at 3:27:29 PM
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Quote: Ace2This thread is 54 pages long
Is that a new record for debating something (math/house edge) that is not even debatable?
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I am shocked that anyone cares enough about this to argue for 54 pages.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
September 17th, 2022 at 3:31:02 PM
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Quote: EvenBobQuote: darkoz
That definition isn't very good as a pro-EB case
EB has made divisive comments (witness this thread), made mathematically unsound comments in a math oriented forum which has resulted in provoking readers into emotional responses. \
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I usually ignore your posts because there's so many of them and virtually empty of any useful content but I have to respond to this one. I do not make unsound mathematical comments I simply state that the math about roulette is 100% correct, every bit of it. This math is based on betting randomly on random outcomes. When I see a place to make a bet it is not a random bet. I used a lot of information to make that bet, information that has proved to me in the past that I might have some indication as to what the next spin might be. If I am betting in a true non-random fashion the math used on random betting does not apply to me. This is an inarguable fact. Prove that this cannot be done. You have no idea, all you can do is express your opinion and that and a dollar will get you a coffee at McDonald's.
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You are confusing your personal choice when to make a wager based on fallible information with the independence of each spin.
No matter how many times you see a "pattern" there is no relationship to those spins and the next one. Any perceived relationship is in your head. And you actually have admitted this
Since it's only in your head, you have no advantage. And you have also given zero proof.
Look I noticed that when I plan vacations it almost always rains. That doesn't mean I now claim to have the ability to predict weather based on my plans for taking a vacation.
We listened and read your description of what you claim is your method. Everything you described doesn't work.
The Wizard himself has said repeatedly that your methods as you described them don't work (referring to the history of how he feels about independent results of every roulette spin and the math if not specifically in this thread.)
You calling the Wizard a liar?
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 17th, 2022 at 3:31:23 PM
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Quote: Ace2This thread is 54 pages long
Is that a new record for debating something (math/house edge) that is not even debatable?
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Years ago there were some bodybuilders in a bodybuilding forum that were arguing about how many days were in a week.
It went viral. It was only five pages long.
This definitely has to be a record for gambling related matters....
September 17th, 2022 at 3:43:43 PM
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Quote: TigerWuThis definitely has to be a record for gambling related matters....
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I seem to recall a different discussion about dice and semantics that spanned around 170 pages over almost a decade.
I don't even think that was the longest.
May the cards fall in your favor.
September 17th, 2022 at 3:50:32 PM
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Quote: darkoz
The Wizard himself has said repeatedly that your methods as you described them don't work (referring to the history of how he feels about independent results of every roulette spin and the math if not specifically in this thread.)
You calling the Wizard a liar?
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No, no, see, he's not talking about standard Roulette math... there's a different math that exists whenever EB bets. And when he's not betting, the math goes back to normal. Got it? I mean, it's perfectly clear.
September 17th, 2022 at 4:35:28 PM
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Yes, please explain.Quote: DieterQuote: AxelWolfCan you explain the difference between a betting-system and a method.Quote: Dieter]
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Must I?
I thought I just needed to watch for people trying to profit by selling their scheme, rather than applying it.
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I don't know why it matters if someone is selling it or trying to monetize it in some way. I thought this site, WOO, and The Wizard was dedicated to debunking betting Systems and voodoo, not just the ones and the people trying to sell or monetize such things.
As Bob said, there are others doing this as well, so at some point, someone will try to sell or monetize this type of nonsense. Debunk it, prove it, or label it.
Edit to add: I realize it's not on you personally to Debunk it, prove it, or label it. But you seem to have taken the library of claiming it's not a betting system.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Sep 17, 2022
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 17th, 2022 at 4:48:55 PM
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There are always opportunities in just about all casino games at some point. You will just keep moving the goal posts and asking for more and more examples, it will never be good enough for you.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: AxelWolfYes, it is your bad. I would gladly make you a side wager.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: AxelWolfQuote: AlanMendelson
He guesses, just as all of us do every time we place a bet. Even the best of the APs don't know if their next bet will pay off. For them it's also an educated guess.
YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN. There are many situations and times an advantage player isn't just guessing. They 100% know for a fact their next bet will pay off(barring any strange act of God such as a malfunction or whatever ), not only do they know it will pay off, they oftentimes know they will make a profit.
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I'm sorry. I should have known that you know when a casino bet is guaranteed to hit.
My bad.
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Whatever the case...BE BETTER ALAN, BE BETTER.
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I will concede you know a win is coming on those few slot machines such as the Ocean bubbles or scarab or whatever theyre called.
And I'm sure those filled screens are just sitting there waiting for you to take your seat as a vulture because the previous player abandoned the game just as the payoff presented itself.
Now tell me about roulette and blackjack and craps and Let It Ride and Ultimate Texas Holdem?
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Stop trying to associate/compare what Bob and others are doing with Advantage Play. You are not an advantage player, and from all indications, you know very little about Advantage Play. Just like I shouldn't comment on what it takes to promote mattress stores (or whatever) in Califonia.
You have already been proven wrong and conceded, just quit while you are ahead.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 17th, 2022 at 4:59:41 PM
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It's fairly well established that people CAN'T predict or guess coinflip-like random events with an 80% accuracy rate based on past patterns or anything, no matter how much time they spend trying to guess/predict random events.Quote: EvenBob
Can you explain what it is that you do differently? Explain why or how it works.
Claiming years of experience just won't cut it.
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Sep 17, 2022
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 17th, 2022 at 5:43:11 PM
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Puzzle me this. If there is no way to get around random outcomes like you have in roulette how is this possible:
"Are the results of each round in blackjack independent events? Even when you are counting, each hand is a random event."
Each hand in blackjack is a random event yet they found a way around it to gain a small edge. I found a way around the random events in roulette it has a huge advantage because I can pick and choose when I bet. Why is this so hard to believe. Everybody accepts that they did it in blackjack, nobody argues about it. You just don't know how to do it so you think it can't be done. Nobody thought it could be done in blackjack before card counting, the casino thought Blackjack was a 100% safe game and they were totally blindsided by Thorp's book.
"Are the results of each round in blackjack independent events? Even when you are counting, each hand is a random event."
Each hand in blackjack is a random event yet they found a way around it to gain a small edge. I found a way around the random events in roulette it has a huge advantage because I can pick and choose when I bet. Why is this so hard to believe. Everybody accepts that they did it in blackjack, nobody argues about it. You just don't know how to do it so you think it can't be done. Nobody thought it could be done in blackjack before card counting, the casino thought Blackjack was a 100% safe game and they were totally blindsided by Thorp's book.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2022 at 5:53:57 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfIt's fairly well established that people CAN'T predict or guess coinflip-like random events with an 80% accuracy rate based on past patterns or anything, no matter how much time they spend trying to guess/predict random events.Quote: EvenBob
Can you explain what it is that you do differently? Explain why or how it works.
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I cannot do it with coin flips cuz it's not enough information and the same thing with Baccarat. I need more than one stream of information so I can compare them to each other. The more the better. Like I did in the example I gave. You can't do that with a coin flip. I see a scenario unfolding that I have seen before and quite often when it's at the stage I'm looking at it it will continue for at least one more spin and usually more. I look at it kind of like the law of inertia where a body in motion tends to stay in motion. Sometimes in roulette under certain circumstances a trend or pattern has a tendency to stay in motion at a certain stage rather than stop. Of course I'm only right 8 out of 10 times so it's not a 100% accurate assumption. I have to bet virtually to see if this is one of those situations because it could be fooling me as it often does. The worst thing I could do is think I see something and start betting immediately because I'm wrong just as often as I'm right. I have to test it first.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2022 at 5:55:28 PM
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Maybe he's using Steiner math?
Gene
Gene
September 17th, 2022 at 6:08:08 PM
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It's logical and simple to explain and understand why counting cards is possible and why one can gain a small advantage. It can easily be demonstrated and calculated using math.Quote: EvenBobPuzzle me this. If there is no way to get around random outcomes like you have in roulette how is this possible:
"Are the results of each round in blackjack independent events? Even when you are counting, each hand is a random event."
Each hand in blackjack is a random event yet they found a way around it to gain a small edge. I found a way around the random events in roulette it has a huge advantage because I can pick and choose when I bet. Why is this so hard to believe. Everybody accepts that they did it in blackjack, nobody argues about it. You just don't know how to do it so you think it can't be done. Nobody thought it could be done in blackjack before card counting, the casino thought Blackjack was a 100% safe game and they were totally blindsided by Thorp's book.
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The under a normal BJ situation the initial shuffle and deal of the cards are random, and you have no edge. Your edge is only available because the shuffling is stopped and hands continue to be played/cards are being seen. This leads to the deck composition changing. There's really nothing for anyone to argue about, it's simple math and logic than can be proven.
Roulette is more like a blackjack game that is shuffling after each hand.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 17th, 2022 at 6:13:07 PM
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I said coinflip like bet, meaning a 50/50 chance to win a bet (ignoring green, like you seem to do).Quote: EvenBobQuote: AxelWolfIt's fairly well established that people CAN'T predict or guess coinflip-like random events with an 80% accuracy rate based on past patterns or anything, no matter how much time they spend trying to guess/predict random events.Quote: EvenBob
Can you explain what it is that you do differently? Explain why or how it works.
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I cannot do it with coin flips cuz it's not enough information and the same thing with Baccarat. I need more than one stream of information so I can compare them to each other. The more the better. Like I did in the example I gave. You can't do that with a coin flip. I see a scenario unfolding that I have seen before and quite often when it's at the stage I'm looking at it it will continue for at least one more spin and usually more. I look at it kind of like the law of inertia where a body in motion tends to stay in motion. Sometimes in roulette under certain circumstances a trend or pattern has a tendency to stay in motion at a certain stage rather than stop. Of course I'm only right 8 out of 10 times so it's not a 100% accurate assumption. I have to bet virtually to see if this is one of those situations because it could be fooling me as it often does. The worst thing I could do is think I see something and start betting immediately because I'm wrong just as often as I'm right. I have to test it first.
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 17th, 2022 at 6:15:09 PM
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There is no plausible way that trends in red/black, even/odd, or high/low are meaningful given that they are scattered throughout the wheel. If a wheel is biased or a dealer is consciously or unconsciously biased in when he releases the ball, that bias will at best be reflected in a continuous section of numbers on the wheel being slightly more likely to be hit. Even if a dealer is deliberately "aiming" to hit zero every time, the best the most skilled dealer in the world would ever be able to accomplish is hitting the numbers in the half of the wheel centered on zero slightly more often than the half of the wheel opposite to zero.
September 17th, 2022 at 6:18:49 PM
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Bob is not claiming biased wheels, clocking or any other established +EV method.Quote: JackSpadeThere is no plausible way that trends in red/black, even/odd, or high/low are meaningful given that they are scattered throughout the wheel. If a wheel is biased or a dealer is consciously or unconsciously biased in when he releases the ball, that bias will at best be reflected in a continuous section of numbers on the wheel being slightly more likely to be hit. Even if a dealer is deliberately "aiming" to hit zero every time, the best the most skilled dealer in the world would ever be able to accomplish is hitting the numbers in the half of the wheel centered on zero slightly more often than the half of the wheel opposite to zero.
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He has straight-up told us that he is just a really good guesser based on the past results/patterns.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 17th, 2022 at 6:45:11 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfI said coinflip like bet, meaning a 50/50 chance to win a bet (ignoring green, like you seem to do).
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You wanted an explanation of how I arrived at my betting decision and I gave it to you. Of course blackjack is different than roulette that's not the point. The point is they are random outcomes and a way was found around them. There's a way around the random outcomes in roulette. It's going to be totally different but so what. It works and that's all that matters. The main problem here with people reading this is hey have confirmation bias. If everything they read doesn't confirm what they believe or have been taught they reject. They have a total bias towards their own opinion and will reject anything other than that. Like I said once in a while somebody comes along who gets it and tries it and uses it. But they are few and far between because it's just too much work and it's not fun. Gamblers like to go to the casino to have a good time, to bet on every outcome and have a few beers and maybe make some money. They don't want to go there and work, that's not why they gamble.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
September 17th, 2022 at 7:09:48 PM
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I don't have much time playing Roulette machines, like 100+ hours of playing. If, like BJ or Baccarat, I could find myself ahead 30-40 units within 100-2,000 spins, I've got a system for that. But my experience from the 1990's was that I'd never get more than 3-4 units ahead on even money roulette bets before it goes down and never comes back up. My experience in the past 5 years with even money bets were bad too, so much so that I had to cover 80% of the numbers to make a comeback. I'd like to use my system on even money bets, but it'd probably work better on a much lower house edge game. But there might be room later for me to try the machine more in earnest with a bit of a session bankroll for roulette. I'd likely have to come back to 80% of the numbers covered to make a comeback, for sure.
