Do you consider economic utility?
July 31st, 2022 at 1:42:43 PM
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I'm starting to think that a lot of the disputes about math on this website stem from a misunderstanding or lack of regard for the economic utility of the bet in question.
There's more to making a bet than decimal points.
There's more to making a bet than decimal points.
July 31st, 2022 at 1:49:12 PM
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Apples and oranges.
Economic utility is a subjective thing, relating to the personal satisfaction or enjoyment one has in doing something, in this case betting,
The math however is objective and benignly indifferent as to whether you are enjoying yourself.
Of course people consider economic utility when choosing to play or not play a game; the savvy ones factor the applicable math into their decision, or at least are aware of it and choose to play anyway.
Economic utility is a subjective thing, relating to the personal satisfaction or enjoyment one has in doing something, in this case betting,
The math however is objective and benignly indifferent as to whether you are enjoying yourself.
Of course people consider economic utility when choosing to play or not play a game; the savvy ones factor the applicable math into their decision, or at least are aware of it and choose to play anyway.
"What, me worry?"
July 31st, 2022 at 2:04:07 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonI'm starting to think that a lot of the disputes about math on this website stem from a misunderstanding or lack of regard for the economic utility of the bet in question.
There's more to making a bet than decimal points.
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We are all aware of that. Two games I really enjoy, Pai Gow Tiles and Pai Gow Poker, are -EV games. I decide that that the money I risk, more likely than not to lose, is worth the thrill/camaraderie/challenge of playing. Alan, no one here begrudges you the right/opportunity/desire to roll dem bones; the purpose of this site is to educate you on the likely results. Mike has made it clear he just wants to educate the masses so they are AWARE of the odds/best bets/house edges etc.. of the games. NO ONE is under any illusion that by pointing out both player and banker are bad bets that people will give up baccarat because of it!
July 31st, 2022 at 2:28:51 PM
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How many of you hedge bets at craps? How many of you play for comps? How many poker players sell shares in tournaments? How many of you get rated with a player's card?
Now let me ask...
How many of you don't hedge, don't play for comps, don't sell shares, don't get rated?
These are math decisions too.
Now let me ask...
How many of you don't hedge, don't play for comps, don't sell shares, don't get rated?
These are math decisions too.
July 31st, 2022 at 3:14:29 PM
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To what degree do ploppies factor math into their gambling decisions?
If little or none, what then drives their decision making?
If little or none, what then drives their decision making?
"What, me worry?"
July 31st, 2022 at 3:26:35 PM
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I believe their decision process is:Quote: MrVTo what degree do ploppies factor math into their gambling decisions?
If little or none, what then drives their decision making?
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Have I lost my entire bankroll?
No: keep playing
Yes: stop playing
It’s all about making that GTA
July 31st, 2022 at 4:02:32 PM
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I'm going to have a lot less satisfaction from the economic utility of my utility bills doubling, so I've got to make my free plays worthwhile so I can save electricity by being away from home.
July 31st, 2022 at 4:09:24 PM
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Quote: ChumpChangeI'm going to have a lot less satisfaction from the economic utility of my utility bills doubling, so I've got to make my free plays worthwhile so I can save electricity by being away from home.
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LOL
Reminds me of a skit on TV... standing in front of an open refrigerator because they couldn't afford an air conditioner.
July 31st, 2022 at 4:47:10 PM
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Quote: MrVTo what degree do ploppies factor math into their gambling decisions?
If little or none, what then drives their decision making?
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No one said there aren't morons in this world.
But making an informed decision involves more than just the house edge on a bet.
July 31st, 2022 at 4:59:38 PM
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Assuming you enjoy playing a certain game, what does an informed decision involve besides knowing the edge (and variance) of a bet?Quote: AlanMendelson
But making an informed decision involves more than just the house edge on a bet.
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Let me guess: skill level of the shooter, elapsed time since a 7 has been rolled, hot/cold table status and moon phase
Last edited by: Ace2 on Jul 31, 2022
It’s all about making that GTA
July 31st, 2022 at 5:20:50 PM
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Quote: Ace2Assuming you enjoy playing a certain game, what does an informed decision involve besides knowing the edge (and variance) of a bet?Quote: AlanMendelson
But making an informed decision involves more than just the house edge on a bet.
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Let me guess: skill level of the shooter, elapsed time since a 7 has been rolled, hot/cold table status and moon phase
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Is this a serious response or are you just trying to be a troll?
July 31st, 2022 at 9:42:30 PM
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Alan, Just play poker, math is probably 3rd or 4th least important aspect of the game. Oftentimes, the super mathy guys suck at poker.
With that being said, EVRYTHING is based on math.
With that being said, EVRYTHING is based on math.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 31st, 2022 at 9:49:18 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfAlan, Just play poker, math is probably 3rd or 4th least important aspect of the game. Oftentimes, the super mathy guys suck at poker.
With that being said, EVRYTHING is based on math.
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Math is 3rd or 4th least important? I thought it was the most important aspect of the game.
You dont play much poker, do you?
You probably never heard the phrase "you can't bluff the guy holding a royal flush."
And by the way, economic utility is math.
August 1st, 2022 at 2:34:43 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: MrVTo what degree do ploppies factor math into their gambling decisions?
If little or none, what then drives their decision making?
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No one said there aren't morons in this world.
But making an informed decision involves more than just the house edge on a bet.
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Hi Lo Yo The original bet for the mentally challengedWhen a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
August 1st, 2022 at 6:28:35 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: AxelWolfAlan, Just play poker, math is probably 3rd or 4th least important aspect of the game. Oftentimes, the super mathy guys suck at poker.
With that being said, EVRYTHING is based on math.
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Math is 3rd or 4th least important? I thought it was the most important aspect of the game.
You dont play much poker, do you?
You probably never heard the phrase "you can't bluff the guy holding a royal flush."
And by the way, economic utility is math.
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I'm more than willing to play you some HU NLHE: Make it 3 sessions of at least 1k buy-in per session. I promise not to use any exact math.
If you're dumb enough to bluff into someone holding a Royal flush, that's not a math issue, that's a bad read of the entire situation.
Logic, theory, reading players, putting people on hands, knowing what somome is capable of, their range, their tendencies, and beating patterns are all more important than math when it comes to poker.
I didn't say math isn't important, obviously knowing the odds of hitting a drawing hand when you believe you are beaten is important among all the other math-related things. I bet many of the pros don't know the exact odds of hitting their outs needed, especially when it comes to that and calculating pot odds during play.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 1st, 2022 at 6:46:33 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: AxelWolfAlan, Just play poker, math is probably 3rd or 4th least important aspect of the game. Oftentimes, the super mathy guys suck at poker.
With that being said, EVRYTHING is based on math.
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Math is 3rd or 4th least important? I thought it was the most important aspect of the game.
You dont play much poker, do you?
You probably never heard the phrase "you can't bluff the guy holding a royal flush."
And by the way, economic utility is math.
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I'm more than willing to play you some HU NLHE: Make it 3 sessions of at least 1k buy-in per session. I promise not to use any exact math.
If you're dumb enough to bluff into someone holding a Royal flush, that's not a math issue, that's a bad read of the entire situation.
Logic, theory, reading players, putting people on hands, knowing what somome is capable of, their range, their tendencies, and beating patterns are all more important than math when it comes to poker.
I didn't say math isn't important, obviously knowing the odds of hitting a drawing hand when you believe you are beaten is important among all the other math-related things. I bet many of the pros don't know the exact odds of hitting their outs needed, especially when it comes to that and calculating pot odds during play.
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In this hypothetical match if there was a time bank and blinds involved I would advise Alan to use his entire time bank every decision. He should randomize two bets sizes for his entire range.
2x and ALL INN and make it a pre flop, flop, and turn game only.
3 1k HU sessions of NL is such a small sample this should give the amateur Alan a good shot at beating the Pro axel if he’s unable to assign a proper range to Alan’s strategy
August 1st, 2022 at 7:09:29 PM
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I'm not exactly an amateur. Several years ago my son and I finished second in Card Player Magazine's national father-son tournament.
It was my fault we didnt win the whole thing.
At the final table it was me and two sons.
I had AJ off.
The other two players went all in. My strategy was to let them eliminate one other player, leaving us a free ride to second place.
One son had A3, the other KQ.
Both missed the board and A3 won.
Of course my AJ would have won knocking out one player and dominating the A3 with chips.
My error, says my son.
It was my fault we didnt win the whole thing.
At the final table it was me and two sons.
I had AJ off.
The other two players went all in. My strategy was to let them eliminate one other player, leaving us a free ride to second place.
One son had A3, the other KQ.
Both missed the board and A3 won.
Of course my AJ would have won knocking out one player and dominating the A3 with chips.
My error, says my son.
August 1st, 2022 at 9:47:03 PM
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Then this should be an easy bet for you.. I will even make it better for you, I will slam 4 shots before I even start playing... I have a feeling Mike would be willing to host a poker night for this.Quote: AlanMendelsonI'm not exactly an amateur. Several years ago my son and I finished second in Card Player Magazine's national father-son tournament.
It was my fault we didnt win the whole thing.
At the final table it was me and two sons.
I had AJ off.
The other two players went all in. My strategy was to let them eliminate one other player, leaving us a free ride to second place.
One son had A3, the other KQ.
Both missed the board and A3 won.
Of course my AJ would have won knocking out one player and dominating the A3 with chips.
My error, says my son.
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Heck, if you don't want to play me HE, perhaps just a smaller blind game 1/2 - 2/5 NL Holdem or dealers choice, and we both agree to buy in for at least $500, I don't care what amount really, the more the better.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 1st, 2022 at 9:47:08 PM
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Then this should be an easy bet for you.. I will even make it better for you, I will slam 4 shots before I even start playing... I have a feeling Mike would be willing to host a poker night for this.Quote: AlanMendelsonI'm not exactly an amateur. Several years ago my son and I finished second in Card Player Magazine's national father-son tournament.
It was my fault we didnt win the whole thing.
At the final table it was me and two sons.
I had AJ off.
The other two players went all in. My strategy was to let them eliminate one other player, leaving us a free ride to second place.
One son had A3, the other KQ.
Both missed the board and A3 won.
Of course my AJ would have won knocking out one player and dominating the A3 with chips.
My error, says my son.
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Heck, if you don't want to play me HE, perhaps just a smaller blind game 1/2 - 2/5 NL Holdem or dealers choice, and we both agree to buy in for at least $500, I don't care what amount really, the more the better.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 1st, 2022 at 11:28:37 PM
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Axelwolf in my cash game playing days when I lived in LA there were always wise guys who would stumble into the casinos after 3am who would take a seat at our $200 table and then go all-in blind every hand.
No one would call unless they were holding AA.
The game would quickly bust up.
You sound like that's what you'd do.
You're no poker player. You're a bully player. You'd show up with ten thousand and force players out by buying every pot.
That type of player uses no skill.
But you'll never find that kind of player in a tournament when each hand could mean your tournament life.
So, in short, your reputation precedes you.
I decline.
By the way, I was also a player at one of the WPT Invitationals and I outlasted Daniel Negreanu and Carlos at my table.
No one would call unless they were holding AA.
The game would quickly bust up.
You sound like that's what you'd do.
You're no poker player. You're a bully player. You'd show up with ten thousand and force players out by buying every pot.
That type of player uses no skill.
But you'll never find that kind of player in a tournament when each hand could mean your tournament life.
So, in short, your reputation precedes you.
I decline.
By the way, I was also a player at one of the WPT Invitationals and I outlasted Daniel Negreanu and Carlos at my table.
August 2nd, 2022 at 9:55:13 AM
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You can play for bragging rights with Monopoly money.
Sanitized for Your Protection
August 2nd, 2022 at 9:58:23 AM
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Quote: rxwineYou can play for bragging rights with Monopoly money.
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If its monopoly money every player would go all in every hand.
The reason for "blinds" in poker is to force a play. If no one was forced to play, no one would.
That's Poker for Beginners 100.
August 2nd, 2022 at 10:39:31 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: rxwineYou can play for bragging rights with Monopoly money.
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If its monopoly money every player would go all in every hand.
The reason for "blinds" in poker is to force a play. If no one was forced to play, no one would.
That's Poker for Beginners 100.
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I’m sure you could figure out some method of demonstrating poker prowess if you were so inclined to.
Sanitized for Your Protection
August 2nd, 2022 at 10:42:12 AM
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Quote: rxwineQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: rxwineYou can play for bragging rights with Monopoly money.
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If its monopoly money every player would go all in every hand.
The reason for "blinds" in poker is to force a play. If no one was forced to play, no one would.
That's Poker for Beginners 100.
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I’m sure you could figure out some method of demonstrating poker prowess if you were so inclined to.
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How many games, tournaments or sessions would be needed to eliminate "it was a fluke" or "it was variance"?
You tell me how many and I can come up with a structure.
August 2nd, 2022 at 10:50:49 AM
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That game sounds like a gold mine! Like playing UTH, but being able to raise 100x instead of 4x on your good hands (and 'dealer' always qualifies).Quote: AlanMendelsonAxelwolf in my cash game playing days when I lived in LA there were always wise guys who would stumble into the casinos after 3am who would take a seat at our $200 table and then go all-in blind every hand.
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"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
August 2nd, 2022 at 10:52:50 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: rxwineQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: rxwineYou can play for bragging rights with Monopoly money.
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If its monopoly money every player would go all in every hand.
The reason for "blinds" in poker is to force a play. If no one was forced to play, no one would.
That's Poker for Beginners 100.
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I’m sure you could figure out some method of demonstrating poker prowess if you were so inclined to.
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How many games, tournaments or sessions would be needed to eliminate "it was a fluke" or "it was variance"?
You tell me how many and I can come up with a structure.
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I don’t know, maybe buy 20 decks, and have someone pre-stack the decks with an equal number of winning hands for each player.
Although, I can see why that might not work, I’ve only given it 3 seconds of thought.
Sanitized for Your Protection
August 2nd, 2022 at 12:40:17 PM
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As a mathematician who plays poker, I have come to believe that:
By challenging AlanM to a poker match, I believe that Axel understands what I just said in spoiler tags.
Game Selection
By challenging AlanM to a poker match, I believe that Axel understands what I just said in spoiler tags.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
August 2nd, 2022 at 12:55:14 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonBy the way, I was also a player at one of the WPT Invitationals and I outlasted Daniel Negreanu and Carlos at my table.
Luck happens: just look at you now, seemingly a gambler no longer able to bet the big amounts you once did.
Which is fine, it happens to most life time gamblers.
But if you had an edge and if you still had the bucks you'd still be in the hunt for the big score.
No shame in not being an AP; just don't deign to lecture to AP's about your seemingly failed methods.
"What, me worry?"
August 2nd, 2022 at 1:06:05 PM
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Quote: MrVQuote: AlanMendelsonBy the way, I was also a player at one of the WPT Invitationals and I outlasted Daniel Negreanu and Carlos at my table.
Luck happens: just look at you now, seemingly a gambler no longer able to bet the big amounts you once did.
Which is fine, it happens to most life time gamblers.
But if you had an edge and if you still had the bucks you'd still be in the hunt for the big score.
No shame in not being an AP; just don't deign to lecture to AP's about your seemingly failed methods.
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The only reason my gambling limits are low is because I'm 70 years old and retired and I dont make a half million a year anymore.
Theres no shame in adjusting your lifestyle budget.
August 2nd, 2022 at 1:41:50 PM
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Alan, I understand and agree.
My point though is simply this: had you been playing with an advantage you'd probably still be able to bet at your former levels.
You and I are recreational gamblers, in it for the fun of it: but some of these guys do it for a living and take it very seriously.
My point though is simply this: had you been playing with an advantage you'd probably still be able to bet at your former levels.
You and I are recreational gamblers, in it for the fun of it: but some of these guys do it for a living and take it very seriously.
"What, me worry?"
August 2nd, 2022 at 2:18:47 PM
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This goes to show you the quality of players you have been dealing with in regards to your cash games. I know the type of guys/gals you are talking about. A good player would see the extreme value in playing with a guy that goes all in blindly every hand. It would have to be a very poor group of players to sit around and wait for aces. The all-in guys shouldn't be breaking the games, they should be making the games. Any half-smart poker player would be begging to get down on that table. Furthermore, any savvy poker player would be even more excited knowing that everyone else is sitting around waiting on aces. You want to be in heads-up situations with an all-in guy like that. You just have to be able to ignore/fade the variance.Quote: AlanMendelsonAxelwolf in my cash game playing days when I lived in LA there were always wise guys who would stumble into the casinos after 3am who would take a seat at our $200 table and then go all-in blind every hand.
No one would call unless they were holding AA.
The game would quickly bust up.
You sound like that's what you'd do.
You're no poker player. You're a bully player. You'd show up with ten thousand and force players out by buying every pot.
That type of player uses no skill.
But you'll never find that kind of player in a tournament when each hand could mean your tournament life.
So, in short, your reputation precedes you.
I decline.
By the way, I was also a player at one of the WPT Invitationals and I outlasted Daniel Negreanu and Carlos at my table.
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If I was that type of player, and you were a skilled player, you should be chomping at the bit to play with me. <<<<EZ money.
You have no idea what kind of poker player I am, and how I play, so dont use that as a copout/excuse. In any case, I'm defiantly not how you described me, I normally buy in for a sensible amount to start off with, oftentimes that's dictated by a min-max anyways.
If I see a good target(s) at the table, I will oftentimes make sure I have enough to cover their stack. Percentage-wise, having the least amount on the table is actually the best value(I didn't say best- hourly or earning potential).
If I don't have any targets or any information about the players when I sit down, I'm normally not a super big buy-in type of guy, because I know my biggest mistake in poker is.... calling when I probably should have folded.
I change my style of play depending on the other players and what I believe their image is of me and my play. I would also change my style of play depending on the situation. Am I there focused on making money, or am I there with friends just having fun? My style of play changes based on many factors including my own emotions/ mood, the mood of the table, and other players. If I somehow thought going all in each hand was a winning strategy, I would certainly do that.
I played a significant amount of poker from and off from 1999 until 2013, one of those years I played poker almost every day except for 2 holidays and a birthday, I put in over 4000 hours that year. 2 of those years during that time 85% of my income was from poker and 90% of my play was cash games. I played everything from 1/2 NL - 25/50NL, but mostly 1/2-5/10 NL.
At one point, I loved playing poker so much that I was missing out on other much better AP opportunities and I was spending too much time playing poker. I eventually got burned out on poker, so much so that I began to dislike playing, and the earn was not nearly as good as other AP opportunities so I kinda stopped playing for the most part. I slowly started playing and enjoying the game again, but nowadays, I don't play near my optimal level, it's mostly just entertainment where at times after too many drinks I know I'm playing a -EV situation.
Excluding some online play, I did during the shutdown, I averaged playing 11 times a year over the last 4 years. I'm up a total of about $16,000 give or take $1000.
Regarding my normal play style, I think most others would call me a loose-aggressive tricky player. Occasionally, some would call me a lcrazy oose-aggressive tricky A-hole who puts everyone on tilt, putting people on tilt is good for my wallet.'
I'm sure Romes and PokerGrinder would love to tell you about the time I actually put someone else's chips in the pot to call me all-in with the worst hand at Binion's.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 2nd, 2022 at 2:32:07 PM
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Good poker players don't need a bunch of sessions to know if somthing was a fluke or not. You can usually tell who the better player is. I know when I'm being outplayed and I know when I'm outplaying someone.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: rxwineQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: rxwineYou can play for bragging rights with Monopoly money.
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If its monopoly money every player would go all in every hand.
The reason for "blinds" in poker is to force a play. If no one was forced to play, no one would.
That's Poker for Beginners 100.
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I’m sure you could figure out some method of demonstrating poker prowess if you were so inclined to.
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How many games, tournaments or sessions would be needed to eliminate "it was a fluke" or "it was variance"?
You tell me how many and I can come up with a structure.
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I'm more than willing to admit somome outplayed me. I don't care if I win or lose, I would only care if I had a good bet. If I think you are a better poker player than me, I would absolutely admit that. Unless you have been playing dumb all this time( I'm not calling you dumb) I'm more than confident I'm a better poker player than you. I might even be willing to give you some type of handycap.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 2nd, 2022 at 3:02:38 PM
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Quote: MrVAlan, I understand and agree.
My point though is simply this: had you been playing with an advantage you'd probably still be able to bet at your former levels.
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Ridiculous comment. Even when you have an advantage you need the proper bankroll.
My betting now matches my bankroll.
August 2nd, 2022 at 3:11:46 PM
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Quote: AxelWolf
I'm sure Romes and PokerGrinder would love to tell you about the time I actually put someone else's chips in the pot to call me all-in with the worst hand at Binion's.
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In California the game would have been stopped, you would have dragged from the table by armed security, and if lucky you wouldn't be knifed in the parking lot.
That's the way it is in LA, the poker capital of the world.
August 2nd, 2022 at 3:18:16 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelson[
Ridiculous comment. Even when you have an advantage you need the proper bankroll.
My betting now matches my bankroll.
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Agreed. Many APs and bookies fail due to under capitalization. Though they have the edge, there will still be tremendous short-term variance off their expected profit. Variance must be the least understood yet most important calculation in gambling.
It’s all about making that GTA
August 3rd, 2022 at 2:01:46 PM
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When betting, I mostly only care about the probability the bet wins in comparison to the potential payout. This means that I do care about economic utility, according to the first article that comes up when using the term in a google search.
August 3rd, 2022 at 4:28:35 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonRidiculous comment. Even when you have an advantage you need the proper bankroll. My betting now matches my bankroll.
You missed my point.
Had you been playing all those years WITH AN ADVANTAGE the math says you'd likely have won more money, so today you'd likely have a greater bankroll than you currently have.
By way of example, who do you think would win more over time: a skilled card counter or a Big Wheel bettor?
Catch my drift now?
Play smart, likely win more.
Play like a ploppie and lose your ass.
"What, me worry?"
August 3rd, 2022 at 4:41:44 PM
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Quote: MrVQuote: AlanMendelsonRidiculous comment. Even when you have an advantage you need the proper bankroll. My betting now matches my bankroll.
You missed my point.
Had you been playing all those years WITH AN ADVANTAGE the math says you'd likely have won more money, so today you'd likely have a greater bankroll than you currently have.
By way of example, who do you think would win more over time: a skilled card counter or a Big Wheel bettor?
Catch my drift now?
Play smart, likely win more.
Play like a ploppie and lose your ass.
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I did fine, thank you.
August 3rd, 2022 at 5:40:21 PM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonI did fine, thank you.
Define "fine."
If by that you mean you enjoyed yourself and have no deep regrets, then no problem; but if as you look back you find yourself wondering "Gee, why couldn't I hang onto a big chunk of my winnings, instead or plowing it all back in over time" then there is a problem.
Last edited by: MrV on Aug 3, 2022
"What, me worry?"
August 4th, 2022 at 1:37:00 AM
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Quote: MrVQuote: AlanMendelsonI did fine, thank you.
Define "fine."
If by that you mean you enjoyed yourself and have no deep regrets, then no problem; but if as you look back you find yourself wondering "Gee, why couldn't I hang onto a big chunk of my winnings, instead or plowing it all back in over time" then there is a problem.
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I did fine, thank you.
August 4th, 2022 at 9:42:24 AM
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Does "fine" mean you were a lifetime winner overall?
Logically one might suspect that would be the required result to warrant the use of that word.
If not, I suggest you adopt and use another adjective, e.g. "acceptable," "OK." "fair" and of course "don't ask."
What price "fun?"
Logically one might suspect that would be the required result to warrant the use of that word.
If not, I suggest you adopt and use another adjective, e.g. "acceptable," "OK." "fair" and of course "don't ask."
What price "fun?"
"What, me worry?"
August 4th, 2022 at 10:41:04 AM
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Quote: MrVDoes "fine" mean you were a lifetime winner overall?
Logically one might suspect that would be the required result to warrant the use of that word.
If not, I suggest you adopt and use another adjective, e.g. "acceptable," "OK." "fair" and of course "don't ask."
What price "fun?"
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Am I on a witness stand?
August 4th, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM
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Sort of.
So, you plead the fifth?
So, you plead the fifth?
"What, me worry?"
August 4th, 2022 at 11:09:14 AM
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Quote: MrVSort of.
So, you plead the fifth?
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How about it's none of your business.
I make no claims here about winning $20,000 a month or tens of thousands per session. Why are you putting me on a witness stand?
But I do use my real name... and why would I announce my results using my real name?
And aren't you involved in some attempt to report a forum member to both the IRS and to casino managements for their claims?
August 4th, 2022 at 11:43:44 AM
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Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: MrVSort of.
So, you plead the fifth?
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How about it's none of your business.
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MrV:
You seem to be needling Alan quite relentlessly.
This seems to have reached the threshold between enthusiastic discussion and bullying.
I suggest easing off, lest some zealous overmoderator get the wrong idea.
Alan:
You've been a heck of a good sport about this.
Thanks for being an upstanding gentleman in your interactions.
May the cards fall in your favor.
August 4th, 2022 at 1:43:33 PM
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I'll ease off the loud pedal, no worries.
It's tough sometimes to stop speaking my mind without running afoul of the forum rules.
It's tough sometimes to stop speaking my mind without running afoul of the forum rules.
"What, me worry?"
August 4th, 2022 at 2:20:39 PM
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Why would MrV care if Alan has won lifetime anyway, in that MrV posted about for as long as he has kept track, two or three decades he has done nothing but lose year after year (a steady downward line) other than maybe very recently.
In my entire life I have probably put in under a decade total of casino play, the rest of the time I didn't play at all, and those years that I did play, I won. Point being that if I, a consistent winner, don't question Alan, pressuring him to label himself, why would a consistent loser? Just puzzling to me which is why I wonder.
In my entire life I have probably put in under a decade total of casino play, the rest of the time I didn't play at all, and those years that I did play, I won. Point being that if I, a consistent winner, don't question Alan, pressuring him to label himself, why would a consistent loser? Just puzzling to me which is why I wonder.
Last edited by: MDawg on Aug 4, 2022
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
August 4th, 2022 at 5:50:53 PM
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Alan Mendelson presents himself as a knowledgable gambler who often comments on gambling and Advantage play. He's also a semi-public figure. I think it's more than fair to ask and know if he's an overall winner in the casinos.Quote: DieterQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: MrVSort of.
So, you plead the fifth?
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How about it's none of your business.
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MrV:
You seem to be needling Alan quite relentlessly.
This seems to have reached the threshold between enthusiastic discussion and bullying.
I suggest easing off, lest some zealous overmoderator get the wrong idea.
Alan:
You've been a heck of a good sport about this.
Thanks for being an upstanding gentleman in your interactions.
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♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
August 4th, 2022 at 7:34:03 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfAlan Mendelson presents himself as a knowledgable gambler who often comments on gambling and Advantage play. He's also a semi-public figure. I think it's more than fair to ask and know if he's an overall winner in the casinos.Quote: DieterQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: MrVSort of.
So, you plead the fifth?
link to original post
How about it's none of your business.
link to original post
MrV:
You seem to be needling Alan quite relentlessly.
This seems to have reached the threshold between enthusiastic discussion and bullying.
I suggest easing off, lest some zealous overmoderator get the wrong idea.
Alan:
You've been a heck of a good sport about this.
Thanks for being an upstanding gentleman in your interactions.
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A reasonable counterargument.
Even if we have the privilege of asking, it has to be courteous. Several pages of badgering questions is not courteous.
Alan still has the privilege of courteously not releasing his details, which he seems to have engaged.
May the cards fall in your favor.
August 4th, 2022 at 9:29:14 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfAlan Mendelson presents himself as a knowledgable gambler who often comments on gambling and Advantage play. He's also a semi-public figure. I think it's more than fair to ask and know if he's an overall winner in the casinos.
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Axelwolf raises an interesting question. Does a knowledgeable gambler or someone who comments on gambling and Advantage Play need to reveal their casino winnings?
Has Axel and MrV asked the Wizard about his winnings? How about all the authors who write about casino games? How about each AP here?
Should win/loss statements be required to post?
For the record, I've never claimed to be a big winner and why would I? Sure, I've talked about big royals but I never said I was a big winner.
It's bad enough not having privacy because of TV. Do I have to compound that with people knowing how much cash I might be walking around with? Or do I have to telegraph that info to the lawyers of my ex wives?
Did you know that in one divorce every casino in the state of Nevada was subpoenaed by an ex's lawyer looking for secret accounts? I had to go to court to fight that $25,000 bill her lawyer wanted to hit me with. (There were no secret accounts and I didn't have to pay for the discovery.)
For years I intentionally mentioned on forums that I used credit lines in Vegas and carried less than $100 in cash. I did that intentionally so no one would think I carried large amounts of cash.
As a kid I met Bobby Kennedy. I will never forget him leaving a public event in 1964 in a late 50s Chevrolet.
The old Chevy was for protection.
If I were selling my gambling information or running teams or selling shares it would be different. But I'm not.
You team runners and professional APs have more reason to reveal your winnings than I do.
