Bruceberger12
Joined: Mar 16, 2019
• Posts: 9
March 16th, 2019 at 5:23:37 AM permalink
I have a bone to pick with the Wizard, respectfully of course. Let's say your playing Baccarat, for \$5. Start with a string of 5 fives. Using cancellation, you never take a loss, unless you run out of money or reach casino limits which are very high for Bacc. Restricting to *1028 kills systems sure. Otherwise it does work, the question is what would the required bank be. Riddle me that one, please. Any programmer's who could answer that? 10M decisions would satisfy me.
Last edited by: Bruceberger12 on Mar 16, 2019
TigerWu
Joined: May 23, 2016
• Posts: 4022
March 16th, 2019 at 8:18:22 AM permalink
Quote: Bruceberger12

I have a bone to pick with the Wizard, respectively of course. Let's say your playing Baccarat, for \$5. Start with a string of 5 fives. Using cancellation, you never take a loss, unless you run out of money or reach casino limits which are very high for Bacc. Restricting to *1028 kills systems sure. Otherwise it does work, the question is what would the required bank be. Riddle me that one, please. Any programmer's who could answer that? 10M decisions would satisfy me.

Bolded portions are why it won't work.

Adding to that, the cancellation method doesn't mathematically overcome the house edge.
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
• Posts: 3751
March 16th, 2019 at 8:30:04 AM permalink
The answer to the question always is “if you have an infinite bankroll, why are you gambling?”
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
• Posts: 2424
March 16th, 2019 at 8:56:22 AM permalink
An explanation of your system can be found here ( http://www.rouletteonline.net/roulette-strategy/labouchere-betting-system/ ), however as has been explained you might win several times but in the long run the times you lose it will be large and exceed those small wins.

You can't beat the House Edge but might get lucky and pick up a few wins without suffering the big loss.

btw if you have an infinite bankroll, just buy the casino!
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
• Posts: 4929
March 16th, 2019 at 9:59:11 AM permalink
Quote: Bruceberger12

Restricting to *1028 kills systems sure. Otherwise it does work, the question is what would the required bank be. Riddle me that one, please. Any programmer's who could answer that? 10M decisions would satisfy me.

I'll do better - I ran 100 million runs (i.e. play until you complete the sequence, 100 million times).
Using a \$1 bet on player, there were 40 runs had a point where you were down at least 100 billion (that's billion with a B) dollars.
12 of those had a point where you were down one trillion dollars.
The largest deficit was 12.6 trillion dollars - and this does not take into account the additional trillions of dollars you need for your next bet.

Note that none of the runs needed more than 550 hands, so "not enough time" does not seem to be a problem.

Here is an example of a run that ended after 283 hands, with a total loss at one point of 8.4 billion dollars, with the next bet being almost 2 billion:

BetResultLosses
2W-2
2W-4
1L-3
2L-1
3L2
4L6
5L11
6W5
5L10
6W4
6L10
8L18
10L28
12W16
11L27
14L41
17L58
20L78
23W55
21L76
25W51
23L74
29W45
25W20
25L45
36L81
47L128
58L186
69L255
80L335
91L426
102L528
113W415
105W310
105L415
130L545
155L700
180W520
166L686
202L888
238L1,126
274L1,400
310W1,090
285W805
260L1,065
318L1,383
376L1,759
434L2,193
492L2,685
550L3,235
608W2,627
561L3,188
630L3,818
699W3,119
641W2,478
597L3,075
702W2,373
622L2,995
752L3,747
882W2,865
788W2,077
694L2,771
896L3,667
1,098L4,765
1,300L6,065
1,502W4,563
1,358L5,921
1,618W4,303
1,416L5,719
1,734L7,453
2,052L9,505
2,370L11,875
2,688L14,563
3,006L17,569
3,324L20,893
3,642W17,251
3,382W13,869
3,122L16,991
3,556W13,435
3,180L16,615
3,672L20,287
4,164L24,451
4,656L29,107
5,148L34,255
5,640W28,615
5,350L33,965
6,044W27,921
5,552W22,369
5,262W17,107
5,088L22,195
6,504L28,699
7,920W20,779
6,822L27,601
8,556L36,157
10,290W25,867
8,874W16,993
7,458W9,535
6,360L15,895
9,048L24,943
11,736L36,679
14,424L51,103
17,112L68,215
19,800W48,415
17,604L66,019
20,784L86,803
23,964L110,767
27,144L137,911
30,324L168,235
33,504W134,731
30,816L165,547
34,488L200,035
38,160W161,875
37,176W124,699
36,192L160,891
45,240L206,131
54,288L260,419
63,336W197,083
56,976L254,059
68,712L322,771
80,448L403,219
92,184L495,403
103,920L599,323
115,656W483,667
106,608L590,275
121,032W469,243
109,788L579,031
127,392L706,423
144,996W561,427
130,572L691,999
151,356L843,355
172,140L1,015,495
192,924L1,208,419
213,708W994,711
196,104L1,190,815
220,068W970,747
199,284W771,463
187,548L959,011
223,740L1,182,751
259,932W922,819
232,788L1,155,607
278,028L1,433,635
323,268W1,110,367
289,764W820,603
256,260W564,343
231,804L796,147
312,252L1,108,399
392,700L1,501,099
473,148W1,027,951
404,436W623,515
341,592L965,107
451,380L1,416,487
561,168L1,977,655
670,956L2,648,611
780,744L3,429,355
890,532L4,319,887
1,000,320W3,319,567
911,316W2,408,251
822,312L3,230,563
973,668L4,204,231
1,125,024W3,079,207
1,054,116L4,133,323
1,285,920L5,419,243
1,517,724L6,936,967
1,749,528W5,187,439
1,627,512L6,814,951
1,969,104W4,845,847
1,737,300L6,583,147
2,188,680L8,771,827
2,640,060L11,411,887
3,091,440W8,320,447
2,749,848W5,570,599
2,408,256W3,162,343
2,108,232L5,270,575
2,930,544L8,201,119
3,752,856W4,448,263
3,162,348L7,610,611
4,216,464L11,827,075
5,270,580L17,097,655
6,324,696L23,422,351
7,378,812L30,801,163
8,432,928L39,234,091
9,487,044L48,721,135
10,541,160L59,262,295
11,595,276L70,857,571
12,649,392L83,506,963
13,703,508W69,803,455
12,881,196L82,684,651
14,167,116L96,851,767
15,453,036L112,304,803
16,738,956L129,043,759
18,024,876L147,068,635
19,310,796L166,379,431
20,596,716W145,782,715
20,133,108L165,915,823
22,241,340L188,157,163
24,349,572W163,807,591
23,295,456L187,103,047
26,457,804L213,560,851
29,620,152W183,940,699
27,511,920L211,452,619
31,728,384L243,181,003
35,944,848L279,125,851
40,161,312L319,287,163
44,377,776L363,664,939
48,594,240L412,259,179
52,810,704L465,069,883
57,027,168L522,097,051
61,243,632W460,853,419
58,081,284L518,934,703
63,351,864L582,286,567
68,622,444L650,909,011
73,893,024W577,015,987
69,676,560W507,339,427
65,460,096W441,879,331
61,243,632W380,635,699
58,081,284W322,554,415
54,918,936L377,473,351
65,460,096L442,933,447
76,001,256W366,932,191
66,514,212L433,446,403
78,109,488L511,555,891
89,704,764W421,851,127
79,395,408W342,455,719
69,086,052L411,541,771
83,253,168L494,794,939
97,420,284W397,374,655
84,539,088W312,835,567
71,657,892L384,493,459
88,396,848L472,890,307
105,135,804W367,754,503
89,682,768W278,071,735
75,052,044L353,123,779
95,185,152L448,308,931
115,318,260W332,990,671
98,347,500L431,338,171
121,642,956L552,981,127
144,938,412L697,919,539
168,233,868W529,685,671
149,154,876W380,530,795
130,075,884W250,454,911
110,996,892L361,451,803
146,941,740L508,393,543
182,886,588L691,280,131
218,831,436L910,111,567
254,776,284L1,164,887,851
290,721,132L1,455,608,983
326,665,980L1,782,274,963
362,610,828W1,419,664,135
330,882,444L1,750,546,579
371,043,756L2,121,590,335
411,205,068W1,710,385,267
375,260,220L2,085,645,487
419,637,996W1,666,007,491
385,801,380L2,051,808,871
440,720,316L2,492,529,187
495,639,252L2,988,168,439
550,558,188L3,538,726,627
605,477,124W2,933,249,503
570,691,296W2,362,558,207
551,717,208L2,914,275,415
662,714,100L3,576,989,515
773,710,992W2,803,278,523
698,658,948W2,104,619,575
623,606,904L2,728,226,479
806,493,492L3,534,719,971
989,380,080L4,524,100,051
1,172,266,668L5,696,366,719
1,355,153,256L7,051,519,975
1,538,039,844W5,513,480,131
1,391,098,104L6,904,578,235
1,609,929,540W5,294,648,695
1,427,042,952L6,721,691,647
1,681,819,236L8,403,510,883
1,936,595,520W6,466,915,363
1,717,764,084L8,184,679,447
2,008,485,216W6,176,194,231
1,757,925,396L7,934,119,627
2,088,807,840W5,845,311,787
1,812,844,332L7,658,156,119
2,198,645,712W5,459,510,407
1,867,763,268W3,591,747,139
1,795,873,572W1,795,873,567
1,795,873,572W-5

Last edited by: ThatDonGuy on Mar 16, 2019
billryan

Joined: Nov 2, 2009
• Posts: 11766
March 16th, 2019 at 1:02:13 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

The answer to the question always is “if you have an infinite bankroll, why are you gambling?”

Boredom.
Bruceberger12
Joined: Mar 16, 2019
• Posts: 9
March 16th, 2019 at 1:10:11 PM permalink
I don't believe I used the word Infinite. I simply asked what the required bankroll would be. Thank you for taking the time tho.
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
• Posts: 19845
Thanks for this post from:
March 16th, 2019 at 1:10:52 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

if you have an infinite bankroll

Awe suggesting there is a system that would fail with a less than infinite bankroll, but succeed with a infinite bankroll? My guess is, either the system works or it doesn't.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Bruceberger12
Joined: Mar 16, 2019
• Posts: 9
March 16th, 2019 at 1:13:00 PM permalink
Thank you very much for taking the time to answer the question as I needed it answered. I will check that brutal run against my version of cancellation and let you know what my bank would have been. Bruce.
michael99000
Joined: Jul 10, 2010