DrZielie
DrZielie
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February 10th, 2016 at 8:45:32 AM permalink
Im going to vegas on 20th and taking probably only $3k, want to try to get the 2500 Tier credits in one day to obtain the 5,000 bonus, what game do you guys recommend playing since obviously 9/6 JOB doesnt exist at Total Rewards properties. Should I play a .25 cent machine and max bet entire time, or $1 and max ?
Should i play 5 play 10 play or single play. Im a noob to the slang but not a moron so please help me out thanks
DrZielie
DrZielie
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February 15th, 2016 at 9:14:43 AM permalink
bump bump bump
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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February 15th, 2016 at 9:31:00 AM permalink
Quote: DrZielie

Im going to vegas on 20th and taking probably only $3k, want to try to get the 2500 Tier credits in one day to obtain the 5,000 bonus, what game do you guys recommend playing since obviously 9/6 JOB doesnt exist at Total Rewards properties. Should I play a .25 cent machine and max bet entire time, or $1 and max ?
Should i play 5 play 10 play or single play. Im a noob to the slang but not a moron so please help me out thanks



I'm surprised no one has come to your aid! I am not a machine guy, but there have been many threads here on "Diamond in a day". Use the "search' function and type in Diamond in a day and see what you get!
DrZielie
DrZielie
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February 15th, 2016 at 10:23:03 AM permalink
Ive read them and Im new to the terminology as far as bank roll and such Wizard has been awesome for help
vegas
vegas
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February 15th, 2016 at 1:54:28 PM permalink
Play at the Cromwell. They have lots of 99%+ games at the .25 cent level. They also have 9/6 Jacks at 25 cent level.

Check out VP Free and go to Cromwell. Here is the link:

http://www.vpfree2.com/casinos/by-region/las-vegas.html
50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong
Joeman
Joeman
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February 15th, 2016 at 1:55:43 PM permalink
Welcome, Dr. Zielie! Like SOOPOO, I am not a VP "machine guy," and I'm also surprised none of the "machine guys" here have responded to your query.

I can, however, recommend a few things to you:

1) VPfree2 is a great site to find the best paying games for a given location.

2) Learn VP strategy cold, and if you are not familiar with VP strategy, start by learning Jacks or Better (JoB). JoB strategy will be the simplest and most intuitive for anyone who has ever played standard draw poker. Note that all of the theoretical expected loss numbers that people are mentioning are based on "perfect play." Any mistakes you make of what to hold and what to throw away for each hand will increase your theoretical losses. There is a good JoB strategy trainer on the WizardofOdds site.

3) Play the game whose strategy you know best. Even if, say, a Triple Double Bonus (TDB) game is offering a higher return than a comparable JoB game, remember that the returns are based on perfect play. So, if you are unsure of your strategy for TDB, your mistakes will most likely outstrip the theoretical advantage of the game.

4) Regardless of the game, you should always max bet.** Betting less than the max, or "short coining" will reduce your theoretical return by, I think, close to 1.5%.

5) Variance can be a heartless b***h! That is to say, be prepared to lose more than the theoretical amount. Even if you play with perfect strategy, you will not lose the exact theoretical amount. You will lose more or less (or even come out ahead) depending on variance ("luck," "how the cards fall," etc.). Sometimes you will lose a lot more than theoretical.

Well, that's all I got. Hopefully, one of the VP guys here can tell you more as far as what levels/machines you should play and what amount you will need to get to the Diamond level (and correct any misinformation I may have inadvertently given).

By max bet, I mean always play the minimum coins to get the maximum Royal Flush odds payout. On your typical single-line game, this will be 5 coins. There are special games where bets beyond 5 coins will activate a special feature, but not increase the payouts. I have also seen nickle games where you have to play 10 coins to get the max Royal payout. I don't think you would want to worry about these games if you are going to do Diamond in a Day.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
ahiromu
ahiromu
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February 15th, 2016 at 2:16:58 PM permalink
Things have changed a lot. I don't think CET has a single 99.54% machine left in Vegas that pays 1 point per $10. Your best option would be 98.45% VP, 10-play, at the dollar level. Yes, you can play 3 or 5 hands, but the variance isn't much different. Standard deviation of 10-hand over 250 initial hands is $1525 with an expected loss of $375. However, it's kind of convention to express VP expected loss discounting a royal, so $875 is more realistic. In other words, mathematically speaking, you can probably commit $2500 and if you're down a lot, take the "out" at 1000 TP's. If you go over 1000 TP's and do not make it to 2500, you waste a lot of play.

Your only other real option is $1 98.01% BP unless you want to start looking at $5 machines. You MIGHT be able to get away with 10-play quarter VP, but your expected/realized loss will probably be pretty bad. Most multi-hand quarter machines at CET are 6-7/5.

vpfree2 has all the information you need. I don't necessarily endorse their accuracy, but, I, personally, trust their notes until proven otherwise.

Edit: I made some pretty crucial mistakes on first draft, variance != standard deviation in a mathematical sense.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
ahiromu
ahiromu
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February 15th, 2016 at 2:23:43 PM permalink
I'd like to add that CET has 9/6 JoB (at the dollar level and $10 per point) at their properties around the country, but it is sporadic and disappearing. Just know that they charge you a premium for getting status in Vegas on the order of 1% of your total exposure. In this case, $250.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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February 15th, 2016 at 3:52:34 PM permalink
You sound like you're playing for comps. Don't. The comp system is stingy almost everywhere in Vegas. Go have fun at any casino. Don't spend more than a preset budget on any machine. Eat, drink, and be merry.
sabre
sabre
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February 15th, 2016 at 7:06:49 PM permalink
Quote: Asswhoopermcdaddy

You sound like you're playing for comps. Don't. The comp system is stingy almost everywhere in Vegas. Go have fun at any casino. Don't spend more than a preset budget on any machine. Eat, drink, and be merry.



Diamond status can easily be worth your expected loss from playing the best available VP, depending on your trip frequency and how much you value rooms. The initial ADT spike that comes with gaining diamond should get you free rooms for several trips, and some freeplay on at least your first trip. Waived resort fees, fitness center access, diamond lounges all have varying value depending on who you are.
AxelWolf
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February 16th, 2016 at 6:11:04 AM permalink
Quote: sabre

Diamond status can easily be worth your expected loss from playing the best available VP, depending on your trip frequency and how much you value rooms. The initial ADT spike that comes with gaining diamond should get you free rooms for several trips, and some freeplay on at least your first trip. Waived resort fees, fitness center access, diamond lounges all have varying value depending on who you are.

+1

I generally don't play for room and food comps unless it's really strong. I usually hope to find something that's +EV already and get comps on top of that.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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February 16th, 2016 at 1:22:00 PM permalink
I'm still against it. Comps are a perk to ease the losses and tempt your palette. How much coin do you have to cycle to hit diamond status starting from -0-? How much for how long?
sabre
sabre
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February 16th, 2016 at 1:25:00 PM permalink
Quote: Asswhoopermcdaddy

I'm still against it. Comps are a perk to ease the losses and tempt your palette. How much coin do you have to cycle to hit diamond status starting from -0-? How much for how long?



So you have no idea how much coin in is required, at what theoretical loss, and what value of comps you'll receive as a result. But you're against it.

Whatever works for you ...
ahiromu
ahiromu
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February 16th, 2016 at 1:44:02 PM permalink
Straight up earning all your tier points (in Vegas) for diamond costs one $750 counting the royal. One can save a few hundred in resort fees (you now get full resort fee perks at no cost, it's not just waived) and a hundred for the dinner. At most, you have to make up $300-400 for line cutting and other various privileges. I think this works for some people, but I understand disagreement because non-royal expected loss is almost two thousand on $1 9/5 ($25 per point on $5 9/6 has a similar expected loss).

However, when you consider a normal day (for me) earns 600-700 tier points... a few hundred hands on VP can more than double my daily take with a bonus at 1000 tier points earned... it can definitely be worth it.

This assumes one actually enjoys playing VP.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Joeman
Joeman
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February 18th, 2016 at 7:17:47 AM permalink
Hey, Dr. Z, I just figured out why you didn't get the response you were hoping for. This thread was started in the "Betting Systems" category. Many members, especially the VP Guys here, often don't pay much attention the Betting Systems section.

In the future, if you post these types of questions in the VP section, I bet you would get more of a response. Hopefully between the responses you did get here, and over in your other thread, you got the info you needed for your trip. Good luck in Vegas!
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
DrZielie
DrZielie
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February 18th, 2016 at 11:37:15 AM permalink
Quote: sabre

Diamond status can easily be worth your expected loss from playing the best available VP, depending on your trip frequency and how much you value rooms. The initial ADT spike that comes with gaining diamond should get you free rooms for several trips, and some freeplay on at least your first trip. Waived resort fees, fitness center access, diamond lounges all have varying value depending on who you are.



Ive always been platinum, and am now a diamond thru founders card deal so not really forstatus just want free rooms everytime i go and cromwell rooms and nobu seem harder to get if not higher tier credits
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
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February 18th, 2016 at 1:01:38 PM permalink
Quote: DrZielie

Ive always been platinum, and am now a diamond thru founders card deal so not really forstatus just want free rooms everytime i go and cromwell rooms and nobu seem harder to get if not higher tier credits


Dr Z, welcome aboard mate. Ow do I get me one a dem fownders cahd tings anyway? Eh?
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
DrZielie
DrZielie
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February 18th, 2016 at 3:18:18 PM permalink
Use my VIP Promo Code FCCHRISTOPHER107 for an annual rate of $395 (vs. our standard rate of $795), valid through February 25, 2016.
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