Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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August 24th, 2015 at 5:08:54 PM permalink
Quote: Actuarial

I was just going off of 'Ibeatyouraces' story. It just seems like it's not going to be that much due to the severe lack of details, but since I'll already be staying at the Ameristar I might as well check it out on my way over there.


I knew about it but never really looked into it. I'm not a big fan of loss rebates.

I just looked for the post card but remembered throwing it out a while back.
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Mission146
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Mission146
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August 24th, 2015 at 8:29:08 PM permalink
Okay, I called Argosy KC twenty minutes prior to making this post and got the following information, but first:

DISCLAIMER: This information is based on information given to me by a Player's Club Representative. I accept no personal responsibility whatsoever if any of this does not end up being the case. Wizard of Vegas, nor any affiliated websites or companies accept any responsibility if any of this does not end up being accurate. This information is based solely on a conversation with the PC Rep.

1.) This promotion applies to first day losses of up to $500 on either Slots, Video Poker or Table Games.

2.) In terms of being a Marquee Rewards Players Club Member, you must either:

A.) Be a new Marquee Rewards Member

Or

B.) Be a current Member, but have not played at any Penn National Gaming or Gaming and Leisure Properties Casino in either the states of Kansas or Missouri in the last year.

3a.) Table Games losses are reimbursed on a $10 for $10 basis, up to $500 in Promotional Chips. If you lose less than $500, then your reimbursement will be rounded down to the nearest $10.

NOTE: These are Promotional Chips rather than Non-Negotiable chips. Promotional Chips do not stay up on a win, therefore, are worth slightly less than half of face value on Even Money bets. If they can be used on Blackjack, then slightly more than half. If they can be used on long-shots; then generally, the longer the shot, the better the value.

3b.) On Slots or Video Poker, the player will be reimbursed only $5 on a loss of $1-$49, but everything after is a $50 for $50 basis once you have lost fifty up to $500. If you lose less than $500, but more than $49, any losses that are not a multiple of $50 will result in the FP being rounded down to the nearest $50.

4.) The player will receive a mailer within 3-6 weeks of incurring the loss with the Promo chip coupons or thing to take to the PC to collect the FP. There will be a date range, but the rep does not know what it is. If you are not local, however, she said that they would probably increase your date range if you cannot make it by talking to a supervisor.

That's all I've got for now.
Vultures can't be choosers.
MaxPen
MaxPen
Joined: Feb 4, 2015
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August 24th, 2015 at 8:42:11 PM permalink
How cool. We'll get you your rebate after your loss when we feel like it. What a joke. Is this even legal?
Mission146
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Mission146
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August 24th, 2015 at 8:49:04 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

How cool. We'll get you your rebate after your loss when we feel like it. What a joke. Is this even legal?



I don't know why that's a joke, that's basically how it usually works. Need time for the mail to process.

I've only encountered a handful of loss rebates where they knew exactly when you would get it ahead of time. Amongst those, you got half over each of the next two days and another where you got half immediately and the other half a week later.

But, for it to come in a mailer is hardly unusual and certainly legal. It's a promotional mailer like any other, only difference is you know exactly what you'll be getting.
Vultures can't be choosers.
MaxPen
MaxPen
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August 24th, 2015 at 9:48:48 PM permalink
They should be able to state at the start of the promotion when you are eligible to have the rebate available to you. Not doing that definitively is ludicrous in my opinion, and should be illegal.
Would it be funny if after losing $500 and received a mailer stating to see us next year same time same channel for your $500 in FP. The timeline should be preestablished or it is nothing more than an open ended promise of something undefined.
Not trying to argue but I find it rediculous that people accept terms such as these.
What if you're offer is lost in the mail? You check back and they tell you,"Sir, you were sent that but unfortunately it has expired now. Better luck next time."
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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August 24th, 2015 at 10:22:44 PM permalink
B.) Be a current Member, but have not played at any Penn National Gaming or Gaming and Leisure Properties Casino in either the states of Kansas or Missouri in the last year.

dgjsgkdgkgktsxktktktskfsjfltsuldlkszrakrl,rsllt....dammit

Thanks for calling Mission. Saves me a trip.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
Joined: Dec 29, 2013
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August 25th, 2015 at 11:27:54 AM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

They should be able to state at the start of the promotion when you are eligible to have the rebate available to you. Not doing that definitively is ludicrous in my opinion, and should be illegal. ."


They do, I think you're jumping to conclusions. Mission was talking to a $10-13/hr slot boothling, it is extremely common for them to not know details about a lot of things or give misinformation simply because they don't know, and they're not going to be directly involved with marketing/mailers so its going to be common for this to be one of the details they're unsure of. Frustrating when you need to know those details to decide if it's worthwhile for you, but again you need to consider the pay grade of the employees your dealing with and that it's not part of some big conspiracy.
When I was there the boothling had to ask her manager about pretty simple details about the promotion, including if VP was eligible.
Avincow
Avincow
Joined: Oct 17, 2014
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August 25th, 2015 at 12:16:03 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Okay, I called Argosy KC twenty minutes prior to making this post and got the following information, but first:

DISCLAIMER: This information is based on information given to me by a Player's Club Representative. I accept no personal responsibility whatsoever if any of this does not end up being the case. Wizard of Vegas, nor any affiliated websites or companies accept any responsibility if any of this does not end up being accurate. This information is based solely on a conversation with the PC Rep.

1.) This promotion applies to first day losses of up to $500 on either Slots, Video Poker or Table Games.

2.) In terms of being a Marquee Rewards Players Club Member, you must either:

A.) Be a new Marquee Rewards Member

Or

B.) Be a current Member, but have not played at any Penn National Gaming or Gaming and Leisure Properties Casino in either the states of Kansas or Missouri in the last year.

3a.) Table Games losses are reimbursed on a $10 for $10 basis, up to $500 in Promotional Chips. If you lose less than $500, then your reimbursement will be rounded down to the nearest $10.

NOTE: These are Promotional Chips rather than Non-Negotiable chips. Promotional Chips do not stay up on a win, therefore, are worth slightly less than half of face value on Even Money bets. If they can be used on Blackjack, then slightly more than half. If they can be used on long-shots; then generally, the longer the shot, the better the value.

3b.) On Slots or Video Poker, the player will be reimbursed only $5 on a loss of $1-$49, but everything after is a $50 for $50 basis once you have lost fifty up to $500. If you lose less than $500, but more than $49, any losses that are not a multiple of $50 will result in the FP being rounded down to the nearest $50.

4.) The player will receive a mailer within 3-6 weeks of incurring the loss with the Promo chip coupons or thing to take to the PC to collect the FP. There will be a date range, but the rep does not know what it is. If you are not local, however, she said that they would probably increase your date range if you cannot make it by talking to a supervisor.

That's all I've got for now.



So seems like the right play is VP for a 100% loss rebate vs. 50% for table games
Mission146
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Mission146
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August 25th, 2015 at 8:15:46 PM permalink
Quote: Avincow

So seems like the right play is VP for a 100% loss rebate vs. 50% for table games



It depends on what you are trying to accomplish, really, but generally yes.

I mean, if you wanted a 97.2% chance of achieving slightly under $250 in value ($125 each) you could take a friend and do a $500 doey-don't on Craps. If they would let you, anyway. You would theoretically lose slightly more than $250 2.8% of the time, but ultimately, the value would be within $5 of $230...the rough estimate is because I did it in my head.

Aside from something like that, though, then VP is good if you can get a high denomination. If high denomination VP is not available, then high denomination Slots are often better. There are actually a great number of ways it could be played on machines, but I'd have no way of even guessing the best way without actually being there.

Anyway, volatility is your biggest ally because you are not playing for initial value. Technically, you only realize the value of the promotion by losing. Let's say that you had a single line slot machine for $100/play, now let's say there is a Video Poker game with a 98% return....If you ultimately lose $500 on the slot machine, by expectation on the rebate, you got to take x $100 pulls at an actual expected cash loss of $10.

The above paragraph describes a pretty standard attack, though. There are other ways, but I'd have to be there to determine if there was a better idea and any full-time AP would likely have even better ideas than I would. Also, if you had a machine that you had good reason to believe was positive, then the Loss Rebate would function kind of like a safety net...even if you ended up winning an amount you consider unsatisfactory, that would not prevent you from ultimately losing $500 with some other approach.
Vultures can't be choosers.
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
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August 26th, 2015 at 2:38:12 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Mission was talking to a $10-13/hr slot boothling, it is extremely common for them to not know details about a lot of things or give misinformation simply because they don't know....


When I wanted to know the specifics of a recent loss rebate promo at a different casino, I just e-mailed them and got a nice item by item PDF back a couple days later.
I remember the thirty-five sweet goodbyes; When you put me on the Wolverine up to Annandale; It was still September When your daddy was quite surprised; To find you with the working girls in the county jail; I was smoking with the boys upstairs when I Heard about the whole affair;I said oh no William and Mary won't do

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