Seminoles Plan for Florida Gaming

Well, Florida courts finally announced race tracks, poker rooms, and jai-alai frontons cannot have slot machines, even if the county voted to approve that type of gaming establishment. So, what to do? Oh, what to do now?

Jim Allen, Seminole Hard Rock Entertainment’s president and CEO, suggested that any expansion of commercial casinos in Florida should involve a competitive bidding process, rather than simply adding slots at more racetracks. “If we’re going to do it, then let’s do it right,” he said, suggesting Florida implement a more orderly “process” for expanding Florida gaming. He noted the Seminole Tribe is happy with its semi-exclusive access to gaming in Florida. “But if the state is at the point where they don’t want to do that," Allen continued, "then we’re happy to move on.”

Read all about it here:

Seminoles Suggest Plan for Florida Gaming

A similar process was used at the Rideau Carleton Raceway in Ottawa, Canada’s capital. The Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation used competitive bidding as part of the larger project approval process. Partnered with the Seminole Tribe, a $320 million expansion of the racetrack will add a Hard Rock Casino with a 140,000 square foot (13,000 sqm) gaming complex. Allen suggests Florida might use such a process to attract the larger gaming operators who could provide Florida revenue never likely to be available from struggling race tracks and jai-alai frontons.

Others familiar with gaming in Florida say such a proposal would adversely affect too many existing gaming venues. Those gaming operators have paid too much to too many politicians to have their candy snatched from them without one helluva fight.

Quote: LuckyPhow

Allen suggests Florida might use such a process to attract the larger gaming operators who could provide Florida revenue never likely to be available from struggling race tracks and jai-alai frontons.

Wow.
Tampa Bay Downes is not struggling
If anything, its thriving.
I came from the land of struggling tracks, Laurel and Pimlico.
Tampa Bay Downes does huge business during their thoroughbred season. Off season, the nice poker room with some other table games does quite well.

Derby lane dog track with poker and table games does quite well. They got the best pai gow poker game in the country. No commission, standard rules. Their only slight edge is they win ties. 5 min, 500 max.

These are very healthy establishments due to poker.
Let them operate just like a casino.
Local Seminole hard rock Tampa is 6th largest casino in the world because lack of competition

Quote: terapined

Local Seminole hard rock Tampa is 6th largest casino in the world because lack of competition

I will be driving past Tampa on my way to Biloxi next week!

Quote: DeMango

I will be driving past Tampa [Lucky: and the Seminole hard rock, the 6th largest casino in the world] on my way to Biloxi next week!

Ummm... What "De Man" said.

No casino with all the crazy rules and ultra-high limits the Seminole Hard Rock casino in Tampa has could survive a year in Biloxi. Period.

As for Tampa Bay Downs, I agree. It does a great job. Not all Florida racetracks are as profitable, either to the state or to their owners. And, don't get me started on dog tracks or Jai-Alai.

But, concerning revenues to the state, a racetrack with a poker room (even with "player-banked" table games) provides dimes compared to the dollars that a real, state-regulated casino would generate for the state. I think that is the point made by the Seminole Tribe leadership, and I concur.

>>>>No casino with all the crazy rules and ultra-high limits the Seminole Hard Rock
>>>>casino in Tampa has could survive a year in Biloxi. Period.
The Seminoles truly enjoy (and milk) their monopoly status.

>>>>As for Tampa Bay Downs, I agree. It does a great job.
>>Not all Florida racetracks are as profitable, either to the state or to their owners.
This would show that 'coupling' popular gambling activities with archaic, unprofitable ones is senseless.

Quote: FleaStiff

>>>>No casino with all the crazy rules and ultra-high limits
>>> the Seminole Hard Rock Casino in Tampa has could survive a year
>>>>in Biloxi. Period.
The Seminoles truly enjoy (and milk) their monopoly status.

Just out of curiosity:

I know if I were going to do any slot machines it would be steer clear of the Seminoles, but what about:
Baccarat
Blackjack
Craps (machine in FL; live in MS)?

Any real differences? Airfare, hotel(?) etc. might be worth it, but Immokalee is real close and Tampa/Miami are each more or less doable.

Quote: FleaStiff

I know ... steer clear of the Seminoles..

Correct! Hopefully, others can give you more specific guidance. Friends who previously visited the Seminole Hard Rock in Tampa reported $25 minimum bet at BJ with folks lined up two deep waiting for a seat. Yech! I expect other games at Florida's Seminole casinos have similarly high table minimums. I know nothing about games at the Immokalee casino. Does it even have table games (other than Bingo)?

I have generally had poor results at Native American casinos. Monopolies are bad for the customer, but, you already know that (from your earlier post).

I think the Biloxi Beau Rivage casino has "deals" offered at several Florida cities for airfare and hotel rooms. But, I don't know the specifics. Again, others may know all the details, but flying anywhere today is such a hassle.

The post at the start of this thread reported the Seminole tribe announcing it had no problem if Florida made large, Vegas-style resort casinos legal (anywhere) in Florida. According to the tribe, such a program implemented in a meaningful way would provide a sensible gaming solution to the current hodge-podge that is Florida gaming. The Seminoles said they were willing to compete in such an environment. Of course, Florida probably would no longer get $$ from a "Compact," and instead would have to get $$ from non-Indian casinos, still leaving the Seminoles with an advantage.

But, until that happens, I agree: steer clear of the Florida Seminole casinos if you have other options.

Quote: LuckyPhow

I know nothing about games at the Immokalee casino. Does it even have table games (other than Bingo)?

Yes. Baccarat at high and highly variable minimum bets usually with dealers who try to take a bank/player bet if a tie occurs. BJ at 6:5 at low minimum (ONE table), BJ 6:5 at higher minimums, BJ 3:2 at variable limits. Saw one 300 minimum game (too stiff for me). Craps Machine (promised but was roped off when I was there). UTH, I think.

Lucky offers excellent advice: Biloxi. Recently I acquired a no fee MGM CC. That upgrades you one tier at MGM, eliminates parking fees in Vegas, and now I get $40 offers: RT air fare to Gulfport, plus 3 nights at The Beau. From St Pete, RSW, Melbourne and Sanford. Such a deal!

Quote: DeMango

RT air fare to Gulfport, plus 3 nights at The Beau. From St Pete, RSW, Melbourne and Sanford. Such a deal!

RT air fare GPT to/from RSW would be great for me but I fear a casino would be unlikely to extend any offers to a flea.

From RSW about a 10 hour drive.

RSW???

Quote: speedycrap

RSW???

RSW = Regional South West = Just north of Naples, FL.
GPT = Gulfport MS = Biloxi, MS.

Quote: DeMango

From RSW about a 10 hour drive.

At more than ten minutes, my chariot becomes over come by the Florida heat. I think I do also.

Quote: DeMango

From RSW about a 10 hour drive.

At more than ten minutes, my chariot becomes over come by the Florida heat. I think I do also.

2nd cheapest way to drive. Cheapest is junket. Leaves you with two air choices: Delta to GPT via ATL and rent a car, or SWA to MSY and rent a car. That's about $500 either way total. Me I like about $120 in gas r/t and not being stuck in the Beau without a car. Do you do any boats on the FL east coast?

DeMango, you posted: "Recently I acquired a no fee MGM CC. That upgrades you one tier at MGM, eliminates parking fees in Vegas, and now I get $40 offers: RT air fare to Gulfport, plus 3 nights at The Beau. From St Pete, RSW, Melbourne and Sanford."

Does the MGM CC give you the RT airfare free or a small price? We now drive from Tampa to IP Biloxi. No real play at Beau, so flight offers we receive from Beau are usually $300-500/person into Gulfport. MGM CC might be an option if we only needed to give small play and got free flights to Gulfport.

Quote: zellchat

No real play at Beau, so flight offers we receive from Beau are usually $300-500/person into Gulfport. MGM CC might be an option if we only needed to give small play and got free flights to Gulfport.

Beau doesn't offer flights where I live in northern Florida, so I drive to Biloxi. So, I can only suggest a possible option for you to try. On your next trip to Biloxi, why don't you plan to give the Beau more play in hopes your play gets "noticed." Not sure how much is enough. If you get the MGM credit card, maybe charge a nice dinner on it during your visit. Maybe see a show or use the spa service. It's like saying, "Hi, Uncle Beau! Nice place you have here."

Then, see if the price offered on the Gulfport flight comes down any. May not get you free flights (at least not immediately). But, I expect Beau prefers to have all seats filled with someone, since the plane will fly anyway. If Beau thought it might not fill a given flight, it might adjust its offer in light of any recent play. Would $125 per person make it worthwhile to avoid driving?

I enjoy both the IP and the Beau. I see LOTS of players who come on Beau's "junket" flights. (Twenty percent of all flights into Gulfport bring players to the Beau Rivage.) Buses meet the plane and take players to the hotel. May even deliver their luggage to their rooms while the players do something else. Players I talk to often report getting "package" offers that include rooms, (some) food, and (some) free play. Seems to me Beau is fairly aggressive trying to put players into hotel rooms that otherwise would remain empty.

Anyhow, that's my suggestion. And, wow! First post after years as a WoV member. Always great to hear from players who go to Biloxi.

Quote: zellchat

DeMango, you posted: "Recently I acquired a no fee MGM CC. That upgrades you one tier at MGM, eliminates parking fees in Vegas, and now I get $40 offers: RT air fare to Gulfport, plus 3 nights at The Beau. From St Pete, RSW, Melbourne and Sanford."

Does the MGM CC give you the RT airfare free or a small price? We now drive from Tampa to IP Biloxi. No real play at Beau, so flight offers we receive from Beau are usually $300-500/person into Gulfport. MGM CC might be an option if we only needed to give small play and got free flights to Gulfport.

Yes, that was total cost per person, I think some free play was involved. I need specific dates, from PIE (St Pete) so I haven't taken them up, yet.

More Florida stuff

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article194497519.html

Power brokers maneuver; legislators dig in; does anything change?

When will the bribes be large enough to have something actually happen??

So far it is just buying properties and waitng for legislators and judges to make decisions.