New member, question about Mohegan Sun

Hello all,

Been browsing the forums for a while as a lurker--I've gotten some good blackjack advice here, so thanks for that! I mostly play basic blackjack strategy (I don't have a penchant for quick mathematical calculations, so counting likely won't be a skill I acquire in the future). I hit the blackjack tables once every couple of months, bringing a "bank roll" of about $300-500 depending on the month. I've done pretty well for myself in Atlantic City and, recently, at Mohegan Sun.

Anyway, I only visited Mohegan Sun to get my grandfather out of the house and he isn't a big gambler so I only brought $100 and left with a little over $600 (I hit the 4:1 and 11:1 side bets a couple of times). Since it was my first time there, I signed up for the Momentum Points program and got my Core card. My main question is whether the points are supposed to accrue immediately or whether they award points at a certain day of the week. I sat at the blackjack table for two or three hours, average bet wasn't large, maybe $40 at a $15 table. I checked my points today and it says 0. I really liked the casino itself and was hoping to head there more often, as the drive is less of a hassle for me than Atlantic City. Obviously one decent day like I had wouldn't net me a comp, but I was hoping for something.

Anyways, glad to have joined the forum and thanks in advance for the help!

Welcome to the forums! Some casinos are notoriously slow to give players comps after only a visit or two. I can't speak for MS though. You can always ask, and in my opinion right after your play is the best timing.

They should accrue right away. Possible for a lag in their system unless you weren't rated at all. They're comp system sucks IMHO. Barely get much even for good action.

Quote: mcavanaugh8

Hello all,

Been browsing the forums for a while as a lurker--I've gotten some good blackjack advice here, so thanks for that! I mostly play basic blackjack strategy (I don't have a penchant for quick mathematical calculations, so counting likely won't be a skill I acquire in the future). I hit the blackjack tables once every couple of months, bringing a "bank roll" of about $300-500 depending on the month. I've done pretty well for myself in Atlantic City and, recently, at Mohegan Sun.

Anyway, I only visited Mohegan Sun to get my grandfather out of the house and he isn't a big gambler so I only brought $100 and left with a little over $600 (I hit the 4:1 and 11:1 side bets a couple of times). Since it was my first time there, I signed up for the Momentum Points program and got my Core card. My main question is whether the points are supposed to accrue immediately or whether they award points at a certain day of the week. I sat at the blackjack table for two or three hours, average bet wasn't large, maybe $40 at a $15 table. I checked my points today and it says 0. I really liked the casino itself and was hoping to head there more often, as the drive is less of a hassle for me than Atlantic City. Obviously one decent day like I had wouldn't net me a comp, but I was hoping for something.

Anyways, glad to have joined the forum and thanks in advance for the help!

Which Mohegan, Connecticut or Pocono Downs? At Pocono they are immediate, but very stingy and you very well might have zero after only a couple hours at blackjack!

Connecticut MS will have updated information in a few minutes when you leave the table or pull your card from a machine. Expect at least 3 points for 2 hours play at a $15 BJ table, more depending the size of your average wager. When you color up, ask what your recorded play time is. If comps are important to you, do not start betting until your card is entered. If you buy more chips during play be sure that is noted. Ask to speak with a host about your points. The fact that you have taken the time to discuss your account will be noted, and you might be thrown a bone just for engaging.

Hey there,

It was the Connecticut Mohegan Sun. First time there and really the first time bothering with any kind of rewards system. I was hoping to accrue some points haha

Thanks for the tip! Since I didn't receive any points, I'm guessing the pit boss just made my rewards account and didn't bother to "clock me in," so to speak.

Since I'm new to the rewards system, does anyone know how casinos typically reward points? I know it's based on average bet and time spent at the table, but is there a formula of sorts that is public knowledge?

Quote: mcavanaugh8

Thanks for the tip! Since I didn't receive any points, I'm guessing the pit boss just made my rewards account and didn't bother to "clock me in," so to speak.

Since I'm new to the rewards system, does anyone know how casinos typically reward points? I know it's based on average bet and time spent at the table, but is there a formula of sorts that is public knowledge?

Not one that's public knowledge. Most of them, if you're playing slots or VideoPoker, have an electronic display that will tell you what it takes to get a point, then you have to decide whether what those points buy are worth anything. The table game ratings are proprietary and unique to each chain or property.

I haven’t noticed anything on Connecticut Mohegan Sun slots saying what rate Momentum Dollars are awarded for play. However, I can say with a high degree of confidence that one machine with a 5.26% hold awards Momentum Dollars at the rate of 1 per $180 wagered. What you win or lose on the wagers is immaterial to the points awarded. Some video poker machines with lesser holds have a label near the bill taker stating the machine does not award Momentum Dollars for play. Blackjack tables scale evenly: 1 point per hour for flat-betting at a $10 table, 10 points per hour for flat-betting at a $100 table. If your average bet varies, which is almost always the case for players, It is up to the pit boss to assess your average bet. It is not out of line to ask at the end of table play, in addition to the hours you were clocked, what was your average bet rating. If you feel the pit boss has it wrong, that is the time to plead your case. You can get an adjustment later, but it will take months and a lot more effort. I have no idea what rate applies for the carnival games.

In Vegas, properties compete... of necessity.
Some focus on table game players, some mainly reward slot players.
Some have generous comps some are 'slow and stingy' in their points programs.

In more remote areas, casinos can afford to be independent... to some degree.

Sure there are all these formulas and short cuts used to estimate things and lets face it even the casino staff only estimate your time and play levels from their brief observations of your betting levels.

By federal tax law all casinos have to have a "day" but can choose any time for it to start and end. Few choose midnight because it is so busy then, most use 4:00am. Points programs may or may not be pegged to the same start time.

Some casinos favor time at table of four hours much more than three hours. Some go by bet amount, some add little "tickler sums" for various reasons: good tipping behavior, etc. Some casinos will adjust comps based on how much you have won or lost but MOST casinos comp by what you have BET. They reward you for risking your money, not for having brought it with you. Usually an average win or loss will not affect your comps but a stellar loss or stellar win might add to the comps a little bit. Only the most stingy places reduce comps because you won.

In talking with other players beware of their 'average' bets, the floor person and dealers KNOW the truth based on observations even at busy times, the players often boast, so the formulas are not always accurate.

Read the website and its fine print to get an idea of the point system, but remember: points are things they dangle, such as free drinks, because its profitable for them to do it. So watch your own betting level. If the casinos want to be secretive about their decision making, you can secretive too.

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

I haven’t noticed anything on Connecticut Mohegan Sun slots saying what rate Momentum Dollars are awarded for play. However, I can say with a high degree of confidence that one machine with a 5.26% hold awards Momentum Dollars at the rate of 1 per $180 wagered. What you win or lose on the wagers is immaterial to the points awarded. Some video poker machines with lesser holds have a label near the bill taker stating the machine does not award Momentum Dollars for play. Blackjack tables scale evenly: 1 point per hour for flat-betting at a $10 table, 10 points per hour for flat-betting at a $100 table. If your average bet varies, which is almost always the case for players, It is up to the pit boss to assess your average bet. It is not out of line to ask at the end of table play, in addition to the hours you were clocked, what was your average bet rating. If you feel the pit boss has it wrong, that is the time to plead your case. You can get an adjustment later, but it will take months and a lot more effort. I have no idea what rate applies for the carnival games.

It is actually 1 point per $190 wagered. And I will add that it is no coincidence that 1 divided by 190 is...well...I already said too much. And your blackjack estimates are low, it is closer to 14%.

Quote: StarCrusher

It is actually 1 point per $190 wagered. And I will add that it is no coincidence that 1 divided by 190 is...well...I already said too much. And your blackjack estimates are low, it is closer to 14%.

I won't dispute your experience, but my numbers hold true for my play. 9 red, 9 black, 1 between the green. A transaction rather than a gamble that always results in a loss of 1 per spin. You get 1 Momentum dollar for $180 played on the roulette machines by the Earth Casino entrance. The technique is common knowledge. The club membership literature alludes to acquiring benefits at a higher rate for higher tier cards. Perhaps that accounts for the difference in comps you experience at the slot machines. As for blackjack, you say you vary your bets without counting and place side bets. I flat bet, sometimes for hours, unless I have good reason to do otherwise. I never place side bets. We should be comped differently as we exhibit different styles of play.

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

I won't dispute your experience, but my numbers hold true for my play. 9 red, 9 black, 1 between the green. A transaction rather than a gamble that always results in a loss of 1 per spin. You get 1 Momentum dollar for $180 played on the roulette machines by the Earth Casino entrance. The technique is common knowledge.

So common that I do it every triple day to make up the shortfall in maintaining my soar card. The BASE rate is $190, but yes, it takes me less than this because of my soar accelerator, and you less, as well.

Quote:

As for blackjack, you say you vary your bets without counting and place side bets. I flat bet, sometimes for hours, unless I have good reason to do otherwise. I never place side bets. We should be comped differently as we exhibit different styles of play.

I never told you how I calculated this. No side bets, I vary my bets, and ask before I leave what the computer has my average rating at. They tell me the number, some floors tell me to the decimal (since the rating being changed mid-session can do this), and I keep careful track of time elapsed between when my card is taken and when I leave. 14% sounds right for blackjack, with Spanish being 16% and craps being 10%.

Quote: StarCrusher

... I never told you how I calculated this. ...

You did not. My bad, I had reviewed the OP statements and incorrectly referenced them in my reply to your post. My apologies.

Quote: StarCrusher

... 14% sounds right for blackjack, with Spanish being 16% and craps being 10%.

I believe you have done due diligence to get those rates, but wouldn't it be .14% for blackjack? As in 70 hand/hour * $10/hand * .14% points/$ = .98 points/hour flat-betting at a $10 table? (Close enough for government work.)

My apologies, the 14% was ambiguous. I was referring to the per-hour rate of comps relative to the size of one's average bet. Thus, if I am betting $100 for 1 hour, I would expect $14 in momentum dollars (and status points). However, and this is important, this work was done at the Ascend level, so you may be right that the "core" rate is actually closer to 10-11%. Not a horrible ratio for a 0.33% edge game, especially given the conditions that the casino imposes upon itself to restrict the hands seen per hour.

I would estimate 50-55 hands per hour from a 6 deck shoe that is hand-shuffled with 2/6 pen with 5+ hands being played at the table and a competent dealer. A slow dealer or excessive usage of side bets will decrease this number further.

Thanks, Starcrusher, that all makes sense. I appreciate the information about the difference in comps for the tier levels.

[Deletet, ment for another thread.]