Donald Trump (People in Gambling)

Greetings!

My most recent, "People in Gambling," article takes a look at our President, Donald J. Trump, and his time as casino builder/owner/President/shareholder in Atlantic City:

https://wizardofvegas.com/article/people-in-gambling-donald-trump/

I get the political stuff out of the way pretty early on and try to come up with an overview of his time in the city and what he accomplished that I think is, "Fair." We also explore the many bankruptcies of his casinos in the city, what precipitated them and why they both made sense and were by design...to some degree.

Ultimately, I conclude by giving Trump some credit for everything that he accomplished, so I hope anyone with an interest in A.C. will take the time to give this a read and hopefully enjoy it.

I've also set up another poll, multiple options can be chosen and only the first few are at all serious.

I missed the poll choice about
"Lied to his investors, over-promised and over-sold, screwed his employees and contractors."

Specific to events building his casinos, as told in his Art of the Deal book with pride, not meant to be a political comment.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I missed the poll choice about
"Lied to his investors, over-promised and over-sold, screwed his employees and contractors."

Specific to events building his casinos, as told in his Art of the Deal book with pride, not meant to be a political comment.

Naturally, this is definitely not meant to be a political thread...at least...to as much of an extent as it can avoid being.

I agree that he oversold and overpromised, but his goal was to get the casinos built and that's what he did. I'm also curious as to more detail as the investors to whom you're referring. The bondholders? The bonds had an interest rate of 14%, so that's pretty inherently going to represent a not insignificant likelihood of default. The result is that the bondholders ended up as shareholders in the casinos via, "Structured Bankruptcy."

I mean, if you're saying his plan was immoral and wrong, then that's one thing. I can't really argue with that. I'm just saying that he had a plan and executed it over and over again while people continued to invest with him. At a certain point, you have to think the bondholders would know what's going to happen.

Saw an interview taped about 25 years ago, where he told a story on himself in the "I'm such a clever guy, I pulled THIS off" way.

Taj build was dead. Dusty huge lot sitting idle. He was broke and overextended, notes due. But he had a Fish in the line. He booked a lunch at the finest restaurant in AC that overlooked the work site from a high angle, and made sure they were seated at the window.

He spent money that he didn't have, for just that day, and hired several large construction machines (graders, concrete drum trucks, whatever) and a bunch of day laborers. Handed them tools and hard hats, and told them all to look busy and productive.

So the guy showed up, Trump showed him what and where in great detail while they ordered and ate, busy busy busy worksite, acted like he had all the money he needed, just wanted to treat him to a good lunch. They guy talked Trump into "letting him invest".

He, along with the rest, lost his investment (I'm told) in one of the bankruptcies.

Told me EVERYTHING I ever wanted to know about Trump. I wish it had told those of you who still buy his bs. We don't need this guy.

Fwiw, heard yesterday there's a story Ivanka used to tell. Ivanka was 8 so whatever year that was. She came out of a Trump property with her dad, going somewhere, and just outside the door was a homeless man on the sidewalk.

"See that man, Ivanka?" Trump asked, pointing him out. "Well, he's 8 billion dollars richer than your daddy."

How much of a con man do you have to be, to have gone 8 billion in the hole? How bad of an actual businessman do you have to be, to have resources and investors like that in the early 90s and be that far upside down? And he didn't even pay his contractors and employees! Labor is generally 35-60% of overhead, depending on the business. Where did the money go?

Driving to AC from Pennsylvania without directions isn’t all that hard. Pretty much a single road.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Fwiw, heard yesterday there's a story Ivanka used to tell. Ivanka was 8 so whatever year that was. She came out of a Trump property with her dad, going somewhere, and just outside the door was a homeless man on the sidewalk.

"See that man, Ivanka?" Trump asked, pointing him out. "Well, he's 8 billion dollars richer than your daddy."

...and then he ate a baby.

Quote: gamerfreak

Driving to AC from Pennsylvania without directions isn’t all that hard. Pretty much a single road.

I really meant from the Marina properties to the Boardwalk ones and any place you might want to go in between. (Like Chelsea II Pizza!)

Quote: beachbumbabs

Saw an interview taped about 25 years ago, where he told a story on himself in the "I'm such a clever guy, I pulled THIS off" way.

Taj build was dead. Dusty huge lot sitting idle. He was broke and overextended, notes due. But he had a Fish in the line. He booked a lunch at the finest restaurant in AC that overlooked the work site from a high angle, and made sure they were seated at the window.

He spent money that he didn't have, for just that day, and hired several large construction machines (graders, concrete drum trucks, whatever) and a bunch of day laborers. Handed them tools and hard hats, and told them all to look busy and productive.

So the guy showed up, Trump showed him what and where in great detail while they ordered and ate, busy busy busy worksite, acted like he had all the money he needed, just wanted to treat him to a good lunch. They guy talked Trump into "letting him invest".

I get all of that, I'm just saying that he accomplished what he was trying to do in the end. Besides, that guy should have figured that if Trump had the thing financed at a hugely positive expectation that he wouldn't need, "Investors." Why would I want other people to invest in an enterprise that I have financed if I think it is a sure thing?

Quote:

He, along with the rest, lost his investment (I'm told) in one of the bankruptcies.

If it was through the bonds, he would have ended up with a stake in the property, not that said stake would have necessarily went well...

Quote:

Told me EVERYTHING I ever wanted to know about Trump. I wish it had told those of you who still buy his bs. We don't need this guy.

I didn't vote for him.

Quote:

Fwiw, heard yesterday there's a story Ivanka used to tell. Ivanka was 8 so whatever year that was. She came out of a Trump property with her dad, going somewhere, and just outside the door was a homeless man on the sidewalk.

"See that man, Ivanka?" Trump asked, pointing him out. "Well, he's 8 billion dollars richer than your daddy."

How much of a con man do you have to be, to have gone 8 billion in the hole? How bad of an actual businessman do you have to be, to have resources and investors like that in the early 90s and be that far upside down? And he didn't even pay his contractors and employees! Labor is generally 35-60% of overhead, depending on the business. Where did the money go?

I don't know the answers to any of those questions. I just know that businesses succeed and fail every day and many of them initially finance or re-finance by selling junk bonds and taking high-interest loans. Anything after the Taj Mahal seems like a, "Shame on me if you fooled me twice," sort of thing.

Quote: Mission146

I don't know the answers to any of those questions. I just know that businesses succeed and fail every day and many of them initially finance or re-finance by selling junk bonds and taking high-interest loans. Anything after the Taj Mahal seems like a, "Shame on me if you fooled me twice," sort of thing.

Smart developers use as much of OPM as possible. Nobody invested in his bonds that did not want that nice, 14% return. How many projects anywhere go bad? The Stardust lot is still empty, how many loans went bad there? Why should Trump be held to a different standard I would ask?

For that matter, how is Trump different than the folks who overstated income to buy a home they could not afford in 2005?

Quote: beachbumbabs

Saw an interview taped about 25 years ago, where he told a story on himself in the "I'm such a clever guy, I pulled THIS off" way.
?

He must be a VERY clever guy. Apparently, Trump should have gone to prison long ago, but instead of going to prison he became the president.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Saw an interview taped about 25 years ago, where he told a story on himself in the "I'm such a clever guy, I pulled THIS off" way.

Taj build was dead. Dusty huge lot sitting idle. He was broke and overextended, notes due. But he had a Fish in the line. He booked a lunch at the finest restaurant in AC that overlooked the work site from a high angle, and made sure they were seated at the window.

He spent money that he didn't have, for just that day, and hired several large construction machines (graders, concrete drum trucks, whatever) and a bunch of day laborers. Handed them tools and hard hats, and told them all to look busy and productive.

So the guy showed up, Trump showed him what and where in great detail while they ordered and ate, busy busy busy worksite, acted like he had all the money he needed, just wanted to treat him to a good lunch. They guy talked Trump into "letting him invest".

He, along with the rest, lost his investment (I'm told) in one of the bankruptcies.

Told me EVERYTHING I ever wanted to know about Trump. I wish it had told those of you who still buy his bs. We don't need this guy.

Fwiw, heard yesterday there's a story Ivanka used to tell. Ivanka was 8 so whatever year that was. She came out of a Trump property with her dad, going somewhere, and just outside the door was a homeless man on the sidewalk.

"See that man, Ivanka?" Trump asked, pointing him out. "Well, he's 8 billion dollars richer than your daddy."

How much of a con man do you have to be, to have gone 8 billion in the hole? How bad of an actual businessman do you have to be, to have resources and investors like that in the early 90s and be that far upside down? And he didn't even pay his contractors and employees! Labor is generally 35-60% of overhead, depending on the business. Where did the money go?

The number is closer to 800 million than 8 billion.....lol.....but don't let that get in the way of the delusions.

One of the largest creditors was Charles Ichan in 1991......I think that guy is perfectly able to take care of himself. For as many businesses as Trump has been involved with his bankruptcy stats are pretty low. Strategic bankruptcy practice is a staple of any good business persons toolbox.

Speaking of Ichan, it came out that he sold $31 million dollars worth of stock in early Feb. in companies that were greatly affected by Trumps idiotic tariffs last week.
Icahn was a Trump advisor until resigning due to potential conflicts of interest.

Quote: beachbumbabs

"See that man, Ivanka?" Trump asked, pointing him out. "Well, he's 8 billion dollars richer than your daddy."

He's anywhere between +$10 and +$18 billion since. Quite a comeback.

About 15 years back I had a conversation with a limo driver that pretty much told me what kind of person Trump is. He said all the limo operators tried to avoid any type of business relationship with Trump properties because he couldn't be trusted to pay his bills or live up to any contract. His rep in AC was "screw the little guy". You can argue that any big investor buying a 14% junk bond should have known better and doesn't deserve much sympathy. But what about all the small/family-owned businesses he shafted? Check out (for example) this article in the AC press. You can bury your head in the sand and say all you want about fake news but this matches 100% with what I was hearing long before Trump entered politics.

Interesting how Putin chose this moment to announce his "super weapons."

With Trump in his hip pocket Syria and Ukraine are probably just the beginning.

The Russian Bear is on the move.

Oddly enough, I don't view them as being "the Evil Empire" any more than the US could be so categorized.

Quote: TumblingBones

About 15 years back I had a conversation with a limo driver that pretty much told me what kind of person Trump is. He said all the limo operators tried to avoid any type of business relationship with Trump properties because he couldn't be trusted to pay his bills or live up to any contract. His rep in AC was "screw the little guy". You can argue that any big investor buying a 14% junk bond should have known better and doesn't deserve much sympathy. But what about all the small/family-owned businesses he shafted? Check out (for example) this article in the AC press. You can bury your head in the sand and say all you want about fake news but this matches 100% with what I was hearing long before Trump entered politics.

Ac, Longport, Margate, Ventnor and Pleastantville are littered with empty businesses trump ruined.
Contractors not paid, suppliers not paid, purchase orders not honored. As mentioned, trump casinos had to use limo operators from NY because Joisey based limos got tired of not being paid.
There is a great write up of a piano dealer who almost lost his family business because he sold Trump a bunch of pianos and never got paid.

When the Taj was built it was the biggest Casino not only America, but also the world. Terrible business decision (borrowing something like 1.5 billion at 14%), but at that point it was more about the publicity and making history than making money.

Like Trump said, AC lost a lot of its magic after he left.

Trump laid the pathway for a lot of future casinos if nothing else.