Bally's Wild Wild West casino section going budget

I wonder if the low limit blackjack will be 6:5 like the party pit that was only open weekends. This latest effort may be too little too late.

If they just made "Wild Wild West" the official name of that (section of the) casino and played with chips with that designation, they would lure me in for at least one visit. Maybe they could even handle that a bit like the Margaritaville Casino over at Resorts.

Even though I never really liked Bally's(from way back in the day) and presently don't like any CET property in Atlantic City, (I was a Showboat girl) I like the philosophy. The Golden Nugget started out this way, low table limits, good entertainment, fun bars it has become very popular.

I might even go back and give it a try.

The only one problem, budget casino with premium price rooms..... and resort fees...

finally.. I missed the old wild west... low/mid tables, cheap bar nearby, bands every weekend, the bull, etc.. place was ALWAYS packed.. then they closed it and I left, as did many others. The rest of bally's is boring and depressing. Just hope they don't kill it with 6:5

Quote: MrsHeartRN

The only one problem, budget casino with premium price rooms..... and resort fees...

I always found bally's to be the cheapest in AC when it came to rooms.. it usually matched showboat and was 10-20 below caesers and harrah's.. That's not saying much though as most rooms in AC are damn expensive..

Could be a winning formula. One thing is certain, high end like Revel or Caesar's Pier didn't cut it in the A.C. market. Many people need or want a good value, I applaud Bally's for trying to foster this market.

A good idea... stop ripping people off. Hmmm, wonder why the previous model failed? I'd love to see this succeed. Give the people what they want: low limit decent games with cheep drinks at the bar, and they'll in turn give you what you want: their money.

I absolutely won't say this is a good idea until I read/see that their blackjack tables are 3-2 though... I have a feeling they'll be 6:5 =/, in which case... let it burn.

I think the days of low limit (e.g. $5), 3:2 Blackjack are gone forever in at least destination gambling locations. The Strip is headed that direction & even demanding 6:5 on $10 & $15 min tables these days. You just can't keep the lights on holding 12-14% on the dollar volume of table drop a $5 minimum table brings in......the economics don't work anymore.

To solve the problem, you can keep the good rules and get enough players to make side bets with a 4% - 13% HE, or increase table minimums to drive up the $$ drop volume going through the table or crank up the HE on the main game by going 6:5 on BJ. Sorry to say to all those purists out there, blackjack as you knew it "back in the day" is going to go the way of Faro or European Roulette (single zero). The older version of those game can't support the cost of real estate they occupy.

Quote: Paradigm

...Sorry to say to all those purists out there, blackjack as you knew it "back in the day" is going to go the way of Faro or European Roulette (single zero). The older version of those game can't support the cost of real estate they occupy.

The even sadder thing is, instead of building $100 million dollar hotel/casinos that require X amount of electricity per month... Why not build a $50 million dollar hotel/casino that needs x/2 per month? I hate the mentality of almost ALL current companies (casino or not)... SQUEEZE the customer for every last drop so that ever year we can see our impossible INCREASE in profits instead of just making great profits and everyone being happy. This screw the customer mentality is going to destroy companies (and already has). Sure, you'll get your buck, then your company will be tarnished forever and fall in to bankruptcy and ultimately close up shop.

No one understands that there's a market cap on things and you can't just have ever growing profits, forever. They'll make all the games 6:5, and their profits will continue to fall, and they'll wonder why / fire CEO's because they can't make the profits go up, etc.

What do you think would happen if a company build a 'moderate' hotel/casino and just offered regular decent games? I'm talking 6D, H17, 3:2, $5. That's still not even a 'good' game, but hell, that's at least considered a game of blackjack.

On my last visit to AC I felt like I'm in the midst of Baltimore riots. I doubt anything can reanimate the place. Give poor the boardwalk, move casinos somewhere else, like Borgata did, for example.

Sounds good to me. I prefer Resorts because they have bars with affordable beers. I think it's ridiculous that some casino bars are charging near $10 for a beer. Can't even imagine what a jack and coke is.

I assume Romes game above would be no RSA, no hitting of split Aces and no surrender......so per WoO I have the HE at 0.62% - 0.64% depending on Cut Card/CSM usage.

So this is the standard BJ game that I see today in local properties that have 6D shoe games. Some offer Surrender, but that is the exception. Didn't this used to be the standard blackjack game on the strip?

I think this game is dying except at the high limits and isn't sustainable. Look at the following:

Assume you get in 60 rounds an hour on a full six spot table and that is a very good dealer and players that don't sit and ponder what to do. Let's also assume they are all $5 minimum players. You have $30 wagered per round (6 players at $5), 60 rounds per hour and players play to about a 1.25% making playing errors (e.g. so adding just under .60% to the optimal HE). With $1800 of action, the game is going to win 1.25% * $1800 or $22.5/hour and even a moderate property can't sustain itself at that rate when you consider that is the win when it is jammed with 6 players, you are likely only going to see this on a weekend night.

Think about costs, what does the dealer labor cost, the overhead allocation to the real estate the BJ table takes up and on and on. I think even a moderately priced property is overrun with costs offering this game set up.

Now let's change the scenario: Let's make it a $25 min table with the same rules......now you have a win of $112.5/hour.

So how do we get $112.5 per hour out of the $5 min table scenario? If we go 6:5, the optimal HE goes to 1.97%-1.99%, again depending on Cut Card/CSM. Again assume that players add about 0.6% to the optimal HE via mistakes, so we are looking at an experienced HE of 2.58%. OK, so $1800 * 2.58%, you are still only looking at $46.44/hour, so we eliminate the $5 table and make it $10, now we are at $92.88.......that is at least close to the win at the higher limit, better game rules scenario for the casino.

Next, you offer a side bet, even a moderate priced side bet for the players with a 4.5% HE. Let's get 2 out of the 6 players to put $2 average bet on that each round. So $4 additionally bet each round times 4.5% HE for 60 rounds. You just added $10.80 to the hourly win. Now in reality, they put a 6-8% side bet in play and end up with $16.80 in additional win. Now you are up to $109.68/hour, again assuming a jammed full table which doesn't happen 24/7.

Now you look at putting in an average poker variant like 3CP with its 3.37% HE even with the best Ante Bonus table, let's assume you get a similar .6% bump in HE due to player errors (3.97%). You add the Pair Plus bet with the crappy 7.27% HE Pair Plus bet and get 3/4 of your players to make that bet. You keep the game at a $5 minimum. Let's assume this table only has 4 players, cause 3CP is dying in popularity vs. blackjack. So here goes the math assuming 45 rounds per hour (which would 80 seconds per hand, plenty of time with 4 players):

Main bet - 45 rounds *$5*4 Players*3.97% = $31.76/hour
Pair Plus - 45 rounds*$5*3 Players*7.27% = $49.07/hour

So you are looking at $80.83/ hour, that is almost 4X what you are getting on the $5 min BJ table that is packed. That is what properties are looking at and saying why would I offer that good $5 min BJ game on my floor, when I can offer all these other games or a BJ game at 6:5 & a side bet and make more $$.

I get that the market is only so big and grinding every last $$$ out of the players seems rough, but regular players are going to gamble their bankroll regardless.....even if they get done 30 minutes sooner on average than before. And if that is the case, the property on average is going to have 30 minutes less of labor costs as well, so they make even more via labor cost savings!

I cranked all these numbers out quickly, so maybe I missed something, but the point is.......$5 min BJ with a 1.25% HE even after player mistakes, doesn't pay the bills.

Quote: Paradigm

I think the days of low limit (e.g. $5), 3:2 Blackjack are gone forever in at least destination gambling locations. The Strip is headed that direction & even demanding 6:5 on $10 & $15 min tables these days. You just can't keep the lights on holding 12-14% on the dollar volume of table drop a $5 minimum table brings in......the economics don't work anymore.

To solve the problem, you can keep the good rules and get enough players to make side bets with a 4% - 13% HE, or increase table minimums to drive up the $$ drop volume going through the table or crank up the HE on the main game by going 6:5 on BJ. Sorry to say to all those purists out there, blackjack as you knew it "back in the day" is going to go the way of Faro or European Roulette (single zero). The older version of those game can't support the cost of real estate they occupy.

Nonesense. There's more 3-2 $5 BJ all through LV and Reno than you can shake a stick at.

Reno isn't a "destination gambling location".......curious which LV properties you are referring to that have $5 min, 3:2 BJ........and before you list out Downtown properties or Stations properties, those aren't the type of properties I am referring to above. Locals markets all over the country still offer $5 min BJ with 3:2, I am talking about destination/resort casino locations, hence the caveat ".....at least at destination gambling locations"

Quote: Paradigm

before you list out Downtown properties or Stations properties, those aren't the type of properties I am referring to above.

Red Rock or even Suncoast and Rampart ain't exactly chopped liver.

Quote: Paradigm

Reno isn't a "destination gambling location".......curious which LV properties you are referring to that have $5 min, 3:2 BJ........and before you list out Downtown properties or Stations properties, those aren't the type of properties I am referring to above. Locals markets all over the country still offer $5 min BJ with 3:2, I am talking about destination/resort casino locations, hence the caveat ".....at least at destination gambling locations"

There are a handful of JUST off strip properties (within a block or two) that still have $5, 3-2. Hooters, Palms, Silver7.

But I am not sure what your point is. Yeah, the strip has given up on giving players a fair shake. They recognize that their patrons are only interested in booze, booze and more booze. As long as the booze are flowing their touristy clientele will play whatever crap is available until their money is gone. But that doesn't mean that you dismiss all those decent and fair games spread out all over town. Well, actually, go ahead. :)

As for Bally's Wild Wild West. I am glad to hear it. AC is where I started my blackjack career in 2004 as a very low limit red chip player, so I have a bit of a soft spot, even though I haven't been there in ages.

There was a small rotation of $5 games available back then (Wild Wild West, Taj, Hilton) and only at certain times, mostly weekday mornings until 11am or noon. Bally's Wild Wild West was one of them. From about 8am until the day-tripper buses started rolling in about 11am, it wasn't even that crowded. After 11am, or 11:30, Wild West would raise the limit to $10 and I would high tail it up the boardwalk to Taj and maybe get in another hour til 12:30 or 1pm, when they raised their limits. Then it was either off to Borgata to fight for a seat at their 24/7 $5 table or do some aggressive wonging at the 'expensive' $10 tables on the boardwalk. That was my life for a couple years, until I grew my initial BR to the point that I could really afford to play $10 tables.

Its an interesting move. To be honest, I have always enjoyed that exhibit.
But, its probably a good move to appeal to new people.
Though I never gamble at Bally's anyway, I only occasionally go there for some of the bars.

Quote: Paradigm

Reno isn't a "destination gambling location"

Don't tell that that to the people from SF, Portland, Sacramento, Seattle, Boise, Vancouver, etc., etc., etc. who pack the city (and its 3-2 $5 games) every weekend.

For that matter have you ever been to Wendover? I have and that town is packed TO THE GILLS every every single weekend not only with Utah people but with fliers from a whole bunch of smaller cities in the West and Midwest that don't have direct flights to LV and yes there is plenty of 3-2 $5 BJ.
https://wendoverfun.com/flights/

Plus you can't label the many $5 3-2 games downtown and off strip as not "destination gambling locations" since millions of us fly thousands of miles or drive 5 or more hours to get there. That's a "destination" in any book I can think of. I mean come on-somebody flies into LV from Terre Haute or Little Rock for 4 nights at the Plaza, 4 Queens, Sam's Town, M or one of the Boyd joints downtown or off strip and that's something different than a "destination"?
Give me a break. The world does not begin with CET, MGM, Wynncore and the Venetian.

Quote: Paradigm

...I cranked all these numbers out quickly, so maybe I missed something, but the point is.......$5 min BJ with a 1.25% HE even after player mistakes, doesn't pay the bills.

You have a ton of excellent points. I'm aware a $5 game, on it's own, isn't all that profitable to the casino. I think you're missing a lot of other factors though. These $5 tables will bring in a ton more people. So if you have just 4-6 $5 tables, then all around them you have $10 players, you're going to be bringing in additional money from the $5 and more customers/money for the $10 tables as well.

Next, as you said, we look at the side bet. Most of the side bets I've seen are on the magnitude of 8%+ (perfect pairs 8D, LL, etc). This again puts towards the gain of the table.

Next, and I'm agreeing up front this is highly subjective, but most places I've actually had some knowledge/insight/background info rate players with a 2% house edge for a normal game of blackjack (3-2). This seems to be the standard (again from my experiences at several different properties) when factoring things like expected loss and comp dollars.

Finally, there's revenue from the hotel, food, shopping, drinking, etc, that each of these additional new players will bring in because they want to play $5 tables. I know a bunch of friends that like blackjack, but are 'cheap' so to say and would only play $5 tables. These are the same guys that will drop $100+ on a bar tab after leaving the $5 table.

The idea of the $5 'decent game' isn't to make a ton of money on the game itself. It's to drive business, and put more people in your casino. If you attract 'regular' players with your $5 game, who's to say they won't play the $10 game if the $5 tables are full? Who's to say they won't go play other games they like, like craps, roulette, and carnival games? I understand the need to break down each section of a casino to see it as dollars and cents, and there's definitely a use for those metrics, but what everyone doesn't understand is Economics 101... Supply and Demand. If you're on the boardwalk and all of the casinos around have 8D H17 6:5 for $10 or $15, and you open SIX WHOLE TABLES of 3-2 8D H17 $5, you can slap that advertisement right on the front of your building and 9/10 people who read the signs will chose your casino over the competition.

I agree that a decent $5 game of blackjack would be wildly received in AC, as would a widely available $10 game with 3:2 and S17. But neither of these offerings will be found at Wild Wild West. Presently ALL of the blackjack games offered in WWW are 6:5 so there's no reason to think that will change, and anyone who is truly "budget-minded" wouldn't be caught dead playing those games. This is just a last-minute lame attempt by Caesars to capture some of the business from people who will be going to the about-to-open Playground music venues (a project that Caesar's tried to keep from happening). The only decent "budget-minded" game that remained at Bally's - the Triple Play Bonus Poker video poker progressive machines - we're recently destroyed when Caesar's changed them from $10 per tier point to $50 per tier point. Machines that people were waiting in line to play now sit idle even at the busiest times.

It is shameful that regulators and politicians in New Jersey continue to allow Caesars to control so many properties in Atlantic City - operating three properties and deed-restricting three others so that they can't be operated as casinos while business continues to decline and jobs and tax revenue are in free fall. How can they allow such a financially and morally (think Showboat sale to Stockton) bankrupt organization to have such an outsized influence on New Jersey's gambling industry? It is also disgraceful that the Atlantic City Press writes such puff pieces. They're nothing more than a house organ for the casinos.

It really would be great to see a new operator come to AC and upset the status quo. Unfortunately that won't be Glenn Straub.

i don't see why they couldn't put in 3-2 $5 bj.. their games there used to be $10, going up to $15 at busy times. Also they had $1 ($0.25 ante) 3-2 bj as well at 2 or so tables ($10 max and max waved the ante fee

Quote: ajemeister

Also they had $1 ($0.25 ante) 3-2 bj as well at 2 or so tables ($10 max and max waved the ante fee

I'd rather play 6:5.

They're going to have to make it on weekends only. It's more and more desolate during the week here.

Quote: Intheknow

They're going to have to make it on weekends only. It's more and more desolate during the week here.

Not from Memorial Day-Labor Day.

Used to be people lined up, waiting to play slot machines. My how times have changed. Maybe if the WWW increased slot payouts more then all other casinos they could kick some serious butt here in AC.

You hit the nail right on the head. "there used to be people lined up waiting to play slot machines" I remember the packed casinos even on a Monday at 12 noon (after the busses let out) With little or no play from Monday to Friday, sometimes maybe longer, what makes you think you're going to hit with your little $20 or even $100. I know Odds are that each spin is independent and you could win at any time and odds for a machine is long term. There weren't as many penny machines years ago and the winning combinations (sometimes on machines with 100 lines) on todays machines make smaller payouts more often.

I am by no means a "Wizard" in math, heck I had to repeat Algebra in the 9th grade but it just makes sense.

http://robison.casinocitytimes.com/article/ask-the-slot-expert-why-cant-i-win-on-the-slots-today-63723

Quote: Intheknow

Used to be people lined up, waiting to play slot machines. My how times have changed. Maybe if the WWW increased slot payouts more then all other casinos they could kick some serious butt here in AC.

Oh I remember those days well. Heck Resorts had a line just to get in the door in 1978! And men had to were a jacket! The legal gambling age was 18 and casinos closed from 4 a.m. - 10 a.m?

I've said since the decline of AC begin in '09ish. That the solution to declining numbers, was to lure back the small limit day trippers, and once or twice a year gamblers. That's the group of people that have abandoned AC in droves. Used to be when the buses rolled in around noon the casinos would fill up and stay full throughout the day and evening. Now it doesn't get busy at all during the week and only at night on the weekends. The $5 and $10 casual gamblers all stay at their local casino now. Why go to AC for the day if you live in Washington, Phill, Baltimore, DE, New York. There's a local casino right down the street. Some more $5 games (even at 6:5..sadly most people don't know the difference). might help bring back the casual player. Or at least compete for them. Couldn't hurt and might help.

I think many people are looking for a value when visiting A.C. $10 burgers and $400 rooms on Fri. & Sat. aren't going to cut it for most people.
Yes there will always be a demand for a more upscale experience, but for many give them a good "bang for the buck" and they will come back.
Mountain Bar provided that. Place was packed on many nights. Lots of younger people who you need as your future customer base.
It wouldn't hurt IMHO if some of these casino/hotels advertised their low weekly rates in some South Jersey/Philly papers.
Sun.-Thurs. during the summer you can often find rooms for less then $100. If you can't attract gamblers at least fill the rooms and restaurants.
A.C. has been losing gambling revenue for the last 8-9 years. Sadly, it isn't coming back. They need to work with what they have. Beach, boardwalk, entertainment, conventions, restaurants, amusements etc.

I was at the WWW during the week leading up to Memorial Day weekend. I can confirm that as speculated all of the tables there have 6:5 payout printed on them.

Paradigm, your post was good focusing on just the house edge, but the casino's win is always much more than the house edge. In another thread there's a table posted with the BJ wins for different casinos, they were all like 11-16%. Partially because of mistakes and partially because the casino has unlimited funds where a player will typically play until all of their money is gone.

Also, even at $5 minimum tables many players wager more than the minimum, particularly if they're on a winning streak.

Quote: dave12038457

I think many people are looking for a value when visiting A.C. $10 burgers and $400 rooms on Fri. & Sat. aren't going to cut it for most people.
Yes there will always be a demand for a more upscale experience, but for many give them a good "bang for the buck" and they will come back.
Mountain Bar provided that. Place was packed on many nights. Lots of younger people who you need as your future customer base.
It wouldn't hurt IMHO if some of these casino/hotels advertised their low weekly rates in some South Jersey/Philly papers.
Sun.-Thurs. during the summer you can often find rooms for less then $100. If you can't attract gamblers at least fill the rooms and restaurants.
A.C. has been losing gambling revenue for the last 8-9 years. Sadly, it isn't coming back. They need to work with what they have. Beach, boardwalk, entertainment, conventions, restaurants, amusements etc.

Taj has wisely offered gimmicks such as 4.98 burger special , free/discount buffets on weekdays, $10 food credit at Plate, etc.

Albeit too late, but still gets more traffic into restaraunts that were dead in the water 6 months ago.

Maybe Ballys WWW should start gimmicking their food options, with BOGO deals for the Buffet or Student/ Military discounts at the Snack Bar.

Cesars already has the BOGO buffet deals, but they automatically print out when you swipe your card on the Kiosk. Which is a good way to force a patron to considering that route, but a horrible waste of printer paper. They should have an option to NOT print out the ticket, as casual CET players like myself don't use it and end up throwing away a perfectly good BOGO offer because we feel obliged to use it.

Quote: BedWetterBetter

Taj has wisely offered gimmicks such as 4.98 burger special , free/discount buffets on weekdays, $10 food credit at Plate, etc.

Albeit too late, but still gets more traffic into restaraunts that were dead in the water 6 months ago.

Maybe Ballys WWW should start gimmicking their food options, with BOGO deals for the Buffet or Student/ Military discounts at the Snack Bar.

Cesars already has the BOGO buffet deals, but they automatically print out when you swipe your card on the Kiosk. Which is a good way to force a patron to considering that route, but a horrible waste of printer paper. They should have an option to NOT print out the ticket, as casual CET players like myself don't use it and end up throwing away a perfectly good BOGO offer because we feel obliged to use it.

Since the beginning of the summer anyway the Taj has seemed busier to me. Granted I haven't seen it reflected in the gaming numbers yet. But they may be slowly gaining back some of their lost customers. It's probably, too little too late, but at least they are making a modicum of effort. Things like the $4.98 burger special really make a difference it can keep people in a building instead of walking around to see what else is going on. Ultimately some of those people gamble, and most of them lose. In that vein the WWW area used to have that Gold Tooth Gertie's little snack shop under the escalator going up to Caesars. Hot dogs, Pizza, sodas, coffee and donuts in the mornings. But it's almost always closed now. I always thought that place was under utilized all those 20 somethings in the Mountain bar would go over there at 1am if it was open. Yet another missed AC opportunity.

Quote: vendman1

Since the beginning of the summer anyway the Taj has seemed busier to me. Granted I haven't seen it reflected in the gaming numbers yet. But they may be slowly gaining back some of their lost customers. It's probably, too little too late, but at least they are making a modicum of effort. Things like the $4.98 burger special really make a difference it can keep people in a building instead of walking around to see what else is going on. Ultimately some of those people gamble, and most of them lose. In that vein the WWW area used to have that Gold Tooth Gertie's little snack shop under the escalator going up to Caesars. Hot dogs, Pizza, sodas, coffee and donuts in the mornings. But it's almost always closed now. I always thought that place was under utilized all those 20 somethings in the Mountain bar would go over there at 1am if it was open. Yet another missed AC opportunity.

I think they had problems with drunk or shady people stealing/smuggling items from the current Snack shop.

They would stand in line and pay for 1 item, but magically have two or 3 more tucked away in their clothes. Or some would just have the balls to snatch and run.

So now, when it is open, it is Made to Order and the cook hands the item to the customer when they are halfway down the line, with people behind them to prevent an easy escape.

Still wouldn't hurt to have coupons, discounts or even Giveaways for items that were previously being thrown away by the end of the night.

Quote: BedWetterBetter

I think they had problems with drunk or shady people stealing/smuggling items from the current Snack shop.

They would stand in line and pay for 1 item, but magically have two or 3 more tucked away in their clothes. Or some would just have the balls to snatch and run.

So now, when it is open, it is Made to Order and the cook hands the item to the customer when they are halfway down the line, with people behind them to prevent an easy escape.

Still wouldn't hurt to have coupons, discounts or even Giveaways for items that were previously being thrown away by the end of the night.

That doesn't surprise me to hear; it's right inside a set of doors to the boardwalk too, so it would be an easy escape. It just felt like underutilized space to me. Like much of AC these days.

Quote: BedWetterBetter

Taj has wisely offered gimmicks such as 4.98 burger special , free/discount buffets on weekdays, $10 food credit at Plate, etc.

Albeit too late, but still gets more traffic into restaraunts that were dead in the water 6 months ago.

Maybe Ballys WWW should start gimmicking their food options, with BOGO deals for the Buffet or Student/ Military discounts at the Snack Bar.

Cesars already has the BOGO buffet deals, but they automatically print out when you swipe your card on the Kiosk. Which is a good way to force a patron to considering that route, but a horrible waste of printer paper. They should have an option to NOT print out the ticket, as casual CET players like myself don't use it and end up throwing away a perfectly good BOGO offer because we feel obliged to use it.

Taj's gimmicks have gotten me to come back. I went for the inactive player promo in April and was pleased with the place. We ate at burger for their cheap burger (I see it's now 6.99 I think, but I'll still go back), and Plate for their steak/eggs to use up or comp $. Both these meals really pleased us, so we will be back to both. We stay at Resorts and rarely go over to Taj, but we're planning a getaway Labor Day week and are going to stay a couple nights at Taj and a couple at Resorts. Only thing I don't like about Taj is they don't have a cheap place to drink (like Resorts 5 o clock and bar one- especially happy hours), and I like Resorts newer slots much more.

I still like Resorts more, but will stay at Taj, put some money in their machines, and dine in a couple of their restaurants.

On a side note, is their buffet ever open now and what's the price? Seems like every time we've been there, they aren't open (even Saturdays). I doubt we'd eat there anyway as the buffets in AC aren't that great, just curious.

Quote: pens4821

Taj's gimmicks have gotten me to come back. I went for the inactive player promo in April and was pleased with the place. We ate at burger for their cheap burger (I see it's now 6.99 I think, but I'll still go back), and Plate for their steak/eggs to use up or comp $. Both these meals really pleased us, so we will be back to both. We stay at Resorts and rarely go over to Taj, but we're planning a getaway Labor Day week and are going to stay a couple nights at Taj and a couple at Resorts. Only thing I don't like about Taj is they don't have a cheap place to drink (like Resorts 5 o clock and bar one- especially happy hours), and I like Resorts newer slots much more.

I still like Resorts more, but will stay at Taj, put some money in their machines, and dine in a couple of their restaurants.

On a side note, is their buffet ever open now and what's the price? Seems like every time we've been there, they aren't open (even Saturdays). I doubt we'd eat there anyway as the buffets in AC aren't that great, just curious.

The Taj buffet has been closed for quite some time. Add those workers to the layoff list. Resorts also closed theirs and are in the process of turning it into a banquet hall.

Quote: 1BB

The Taj buffet has been closed for quite some time. Add those workers to the layoff list. Resorts also closed theirs and are in the process of turning it into a banquet hall.

I ate at Taj's buffet 2 weeks ago, so I don't know what exactly you are referring to when you say "quite some time"

As far as I know it is still open, but on a limited basis. Meaning it is open on certain days of the week, and for the promotion it was Wednesdays. So they would open it on wed. and close it until Fri or Saturday.

Quote: BedWetterBetter

I ate at Taj's buffet 2 weeks ago, so I don't know what exactly you are referring to when you say "quite some time"

As far as I know it is still open, but on a limited basis. Meaning it is open on certain days of the week, and for the promotion it was Wednesdays. So they would open it on wed. and close it until Fri or Saturday.

I asked at least three times since last fall, the last time being a few weeks ago, and always got the same answer which was that it was closed until further notice. Each time was from the security guard on duty at the podium checking room keys for those using the elevators. One of them went to great lengths to tell me that many of the laid off workers were friends of his, they didn't know what they were going to do and how unfair it was. Why would I think those guys would know what's going on? :-) Thanks for the correction. Sorry I got it wrong.

Quote: ColorMeUp

I was at the WWW during the week leading up to Memorial Day weekend. I can confirm that as speculated all of the tables there have 6:5 payout printed on them.

Paradigm, your post was good focusing on just the house edge, but the casino's win is always much more than the house edge. In another thread there's a table posted with the BJ wins for different casinos, they were all like 11-16%. Partially because of mistakes and partially because the casino has unlimited funds where a player will typically play until all of their money is gone.

Also, even at $5 minimum tables many players wager more than the minimum, particularly if they're on a winning streak.

ColorMeUp,

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for the additional info!

I know for a fact that they had $5 craps on Saturday night (a buddy of mine went). Would I be better off going on a Saturday day/night trip, or a Sunday day trip to take advantage of this?

Quote: lankykong1589

I know for a fact that they had $5 craps on Saturday night (a buddy of mine went). Would I be better off going on a Saturday day/night trip, or a Sunday day trip to take advantage of this?

I played there this past Sunday evening and they had $5 craps. Of course the first person threw 5 numbers but their table does not have a fire bet. I did make $140 from his turn so there was that.

WWW is my favorite. Just for the theme. I will check it out next week. I never go to AC / Vegas on the weekend: too many people. I like empty casinos with no people hovering over / making comments / glaring and appreciate the full attention of dealers / waitresses. Plus I dislike very few things more than waiting for a seat / meal / buffet / show. Hence I visit AC in the fall / winter and Vegas in the hottest months and Christmas or Thanksgiving.

Quote: Paradigm

I think the days of low limit (e.g. $5), 3:2 Blackjack are gone forever in at least destination gambling locations. The Strip is headed that direction & even demanding 6:5 on $10 & $15 min tables these days. You just can't keep the lights on holding 12-14% on the dollar volume of table drop a $5 minimum table brings in......the economics don't work anymore.

To solve the problem, you can keep the good rules and get enough players to make side bets with a 4% - 13% HE, or increase table minimums to drive up the $$ drop volume going through the table or crank up the HE on the main game by going 6:5 on BJ. Sorry to say to all those purists out there, blackjack as you knew it "back in the day" is going to go the way of Faro or European Roulette (single zero). The older version of those game can't support the cost of real estate they occupy.

Truer words were never written.