AC: The Future of Atlantic City
January 4th, 2015 at 7:12:41 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/atlantic-city-mayor-predicts-city-142444363.html
Mayor of Atlantic City is a tool! The article states:
As Revel and Trump Plaza went belly up in September, Guardian remained even-keeled even as some urged him to show some emotion.
"You just have to accept what happens," he said. "It's almost like, 'Why does a flood occur, or why does a hurricane happen?'"
This debacle was not an act of God! It could have been avoided if not avoided had less of an impact if the "powers that be" saw the competition in the surrounding states as a viable threat. They had their smug attitude and delusions of grandeur.
I agree that Atlantic City will start coming back somewhat but gamblers have long memories and are first and foremost gamblers, they will go wherever they feel they are valued, and right now that's not the feeling many get from AC.
I've been a loyal Taj gambler but with all this flip flopping on closure, I'm apprehensive to gamble there. Going down at the end of the month and trying Resorts, haven't stayed there in about 10 years. Hopefully a change of scenery will bring me luck.
Happy New Year everyone.
Mayor of Atlantic City is a tool! The article states:
As Revel and Trump Plaza went belly up in September, Guardian remained even-keeled even as some urged him to show some emotion.
"You just have to accept what happens," he said. "It's almost like, 'Why does a flood occur, or why does a hurricane happen?'"
This debacle was not an act of God! It could have been avoided if not avoided had less of an impact if the "powers that be" saw the competition in the surrounding states as a viable threat. They had their smug attitude and delusions of grandeur.
I agree that Atlantic City will start coming back somewhat but gamblers have long memories and are first and foremost gamblers, they will go wherever they feel they are valued, and right now that's not the feeling many get from AC.
I've been a loyal Taj gambler but with all this flip flopping on closure, I'm apprehensive to gamble there. Going down at the end of the month and trying Resorts, haven't stayed there in about 10 years. Hopefully a change of scenery will bring me luck.
Happy New Year everyone.
You only go around once, but if you play your cards right, once is enough.”
¯ Francis Albert
January 4th, 2015 at 11:14:33 AM
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Hey happy new year to you too!
I really think the time to change Atlantic City has long passed. Maybe in the 80's they could have done something. Bottom line is they never cleared the slums or blighted areas. Actually the CRDA is responsible for building over 1,000 new low income units.
The most recent low income housing being built by the "brain trust" will be one block from the beach and have a per unit cost of $337,000.
The state needed to take control of A.C. away from the local politicians and made the tough decisions that would have made A.C. a world class destination resort. Instead we have casinos some open some closed scattered around a blighted unsafe town.
Sounds like you have a plan regarding Taj Mahal. Wouldn't blame you a bit for jumping ship. Many including myself see the recent lifeline handed to the Taj as only stalling the unfortunate closing of this casino. Not to mention Revel will most likely reopen within a year......
I really think the time to change Atlantic City has long passed. Maybe in the 80's they could have done something. Bottom line is they never cleared the slums or blighted areas. Actually the CRDA is responsible for building over 1,000 new low income units.
The most recent low income housing being built by the "brain trust" will be one block from the beach and have a per unit cost of $337,000.
The state needed to take control of A.C. away from the local politicians and made the tough decisions that would have made A.C. a world class destination resort. Instead we have casinos some open some closed scattered around a blighted unsafe town.
Sounds like you have a plan regarding Taj Mahal. Wouldn't blame you a bit for jumping ship. Many including myself see the recent lifeline handed to the Taj as only stalling the unfortunate closing of this casino. Not to mention Revel will most likely reopen within a year......
January 4th, 2015 at 10:26:40 PM
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Guardian says he expects 5th casino to close in 2015. He wouldn't name it but the article said it was most likely Bally's.
January 5th, 2015 at 6:44:00 AM
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Quote: JackStraw8004Guardian says he expects 5th casino to close in 2015. He wouldn't name it but the article said it was most likely Bally's.
I haven't yet seen anybody make a clear analysis of the new CZR debt restructuring, which now seems to consolidate AC properties back into the parent co., will impact NJ properties.
This article points out that whatever deal is struck, there will likely be more closings on the horizon.
"The worst kept secret in Wall Street is that Caesars (NASDAQ:CZR) will file for bankruptcy protection on January 14thDebt isn't the only problem-The company's income statement reveals a reorganized Caesars still won't be profitable, even if the economy continues to improve. In 2013 (the last full year available) the company generated a whooping loss of over $2.2 billion. And that was before interest! Lower interest payments aren't going to make up that difference...
Any way you slice it, the company has some serious issues to deal with, which won't magically be resolved just by wiping some debt off the balance sheet. The core problem is more fundamental: the U.S. market is saturated with casinos and Caesars happens to own most of the money-losing ones. Caesars will eventually have to shut a large proportion of its underperforming regional casinos before it gets back in the black. The company has a lousy portfolio of properties. For every flashy Caesars Palace in Las Vegas, there are 1 or 2 rundown casinos like Bally's Atlantic City."
Based on the prior attempt by Loveman et all, to jettison both Ballys AND Caesars AC from their protected properties group, it would not surprise me if Bally's is closed sooner rather than later, & Caesars AC is eventually abandoned in an effort to consolidate as many top tier players into 1 AC property - Harrahs.
When you think about it, the Marina casinos may be the future for AC as the Boardwalk declines & decays into a mess of closed or poorly concieved ,re-purposed non casino properties. I look at the closed TP , the self destructive TAJ "I'm not dead yet" marketing plan, & the Revel's imminent implosion if their electric co goes belly up, & it's overtaken by mold & fungus.
So, as someone suggested, the once mighty Caesars AC, may soon be replaced by a "Little Caesars" .
That should make some politicians, reporters & a few math challenged "AC experts" on another board happy- as they seem to think a few pennies in nongaming profits will replace billions of $ in gaming revenues.
Pizza Pizza [tee~hee].
http://seekingalpha.com/article/2777915-caesars-is-headed-straight-for-chapter-22-bankruptcy
January 5th, 2015 at 7:35:29 AM
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It's long time overdue. The idea of boardwalk casinos lived itself out. Modern casinos resemble stand alone palaces of gambling. I'd rather see Atlantis than 20 ugly boxes.
January 5th, 2015 at 8:59:35 AM
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A very well written analyses of both Caesars and the future of Atlantic City.
It is interesting to note that of the 6 casinos that have floundered in Atlantic City none were in the Marina District.
I am of the opinion that A.C.'s best days have already happened. The inability back in the 80's and 90's to turn the place into a destination resort sealed its fate. Now with the main source of revenue cut in half in less then a decade I believe the city is in a death spiral.
The boardwalk casinos had much to offer. Casino hopping, cheap eats along the boardwalk etc. Now tourists will pass by looming darkened hulks surrounded by uninviting blighted side streets. It just won't be the same. And with the city talking about cutting the Police force it wouldn't exactly give me a "warm and fuzzy" feeling visiting the place.
Atlantic City lacked a long term plan. Way to much power was left in the hands of corrupt local politicians.
Something over 80% of the year round population are renters. Many of these properties are run down and owned by absentee landlords.
Somebody needed to make a tough decision about what the future of Atlantic City would look like 30 years ago. Pay generous relocation expenses to tenants and more then fare market value for the properties and start from scratch.
Instead the Casino Redevelopment Authority built over 1000 new low income housing units. It is a misguided endeavor they continue to this day. Just a short time ago it was announced about 56 new low income units on the beach block. The cost, a staggering $337,000 per unit!
If Atlantic City needs help I am afraid it needs help avoiding planned failures.
It is interesting to note that of the 6 casinos that have floundered in Atlantic City none were in the Marina District.
I am of the opinion that A.C.'s best days have already happened. The inability back in the 80's and 90's to turn the place into a destination resort sealed its fate. Now with the main source of revenue cut in half in less then a decade I believe the city is in a death spiral.
The boardwalk casinos had much to offer. Casino hopping, cheap eats along the boardwalk etc. Now tourists will pass by looming darkened hulks surrounded by uninviting blighted side streets. It just won't be the same. And with the city talking about cutting the Police force it wouldn't exactly give me a "warm and fuzzy" feeling visiting the place.
Atlantic City lacked a long term plan. Way to much power was left in the hands of corrupt local politicians.
Something over 80% of the year round population are renters. Many of these properties are run down and owned by absentee landlords.
Somebody needed to make a tough decision about what the future of Atlantic City would look like 30 years ago. Pay generous relocation expenses to tenants and more then fare market value for the properties and start from scratch.
Instead the Casino Redevelopment Authority built over 1000 new low income housing units. It is a misguided endeavor they continue to this day. Just a short time ago it was announced about 56 new low income units on the beach block. The cost, a staggering $337,000 per unit!
If Atlantic City needs help I am afraid it needs help avoiding planned failures.
January 5th, 2015 at 9:10:22 AM
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Not sure whether your six included Trump Marina a k a Trump's Castle. But it should definitely be counted as a failure. It was the Donald's first in AC.Quote: dave12038457It is interesting to note that of the 6 casinos that have floundered in Atlantic City none were in the Marina District.
January 5th, 2015 at 9:14:55 AM
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Quote: Dicenor33It's long time overdue. The idea of boardwalk casinos lived itself out. Modern casinos resemble stand alone palaces of gambling. I'd rather see Atlantis than 20 ugly boxes.
Perhaps Loveman showed his AC hole card with the demise of the Total rewards shuttle- with 1 marina destination, he won't need it.
January 5th, 2015 at 9:37:39 AM
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Atlantic Club, Playboy casino, Trump Plaza, Claridge, Showboat, Revel.
Trump Marina was reburbished and opened as The Golden Nugget. In its current incarnation it seems to be doing rather well.
Trump Marina was reburbished and opened as The Golden Nugget. In its current incarnation it seems to be doing rather well.
January 5th, 2015 at 10:25:17 AM
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Dave and 7 Star hit on most of points. There is still too many casinos for everyone to show a profit. My only fear is that the trash the preys in the boardwalk area will just move to the marina properties if it isn't addressed. And I am not sure how you can deal with the problem of a city full of unemployed drug addicts who are willing to do anything for their next fix. It's January, see how safe you feel playing a machine on the 2nd floor at Caesars when you are the only person playing on the floor and the homeless and other bums are watching your every move. Not a comfortable situation to be in.
January 5th, 2015 at 10:26:43 AM
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Caesars has announced they'll stop the bus shuttles but not sure when.
I am a robot.
January 8th, 2015 at 4:07:46 PM
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Quote: ACMamaHi Everyone---another refugee from that "other" board. Tee hee my a$$
Welcome! And I look forward to you adding to the dicussion of the mess AC has become. And we do talk about ways it can be made better.
January 9th, 2015 at 11:49:24 AM
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If you think AC always has to be a crime ridden city you are wrong. It can be turned around. Look at NYC . Guiliani brought that city back from near death. The renaissance was continued under Bloomberg. Placed that once looked liked a bombed out war zone now have people competing to pay $5000 a month for an apartment. Times Square was porn and prostitutes. Now it is Disney and Nike. The right leadership can turn things around.
I understand Baltimore Harbor was once terrible and it is now a tourist destination.
I understand Baltimore Harbor was once terrible and it is now a tourist destination.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:09:55 PM
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ACMama your observations are those of many. You are not alone in your feelings/perceptions of A.C.
If I may, allow me to offer my opinions of just what went wrong in A.C. and why.
Resorts was the first of many casinos opening May 1978. It was believed by many that legal gambling would both improve Atlantic City, create tens of thousands of jobs and generate much tax revenue for the state of N.J.
Casinos soon popped up like April dandelions in A.C. The casino control commission had a few requirements for the physical buildings. Among them a minimum of 500 rooms had to be available to guests. So build they built huge VERTICAL towers containing hundreds if not thousands of rooms they did. They also added theaters, restaurants all within the confines of their buildings.
If they had instead either prohibited or limited hotels to say 10 floors, banned restaurants and theaters in close proximity to the casinos, the surrounding blocks around the casinos would have become immensely valuable as both hotel space and for other uses.
Instead self contained palaces of splendor were plopped down in the middle of some very challenged neighborhoods. These same neighborhoods would see very little economic benefit from the coming of gaming as most casinos were completely self contained.
It was believed back in the 70's that just building casinos would lead to massive redevelopment by the private sector in A.C. For the most part, it didn't happen.
One has to ask why? With billions spent on casino construction, creation of more jobs then there are residents of A.C. why is the city still struggling?
Shouldn't a Jersey Shore town with casinos and miles of boardwalk and beach be a very desirable place to live or retire?
Well yes it should but it isn't.
The C.R.D.A. spent over 1.2 billion on projects inside Atlantic City including over 1,000 low income housing units. It amounts to over $30,000 for every man woman and child who calls A.C. home.The most recent low income housing being built has a per unit cost of $337,000 and is 1 block from the beach. This has created a dead zone. Nobody will want to build or invest in close proximity to this latest project. Why does it cost $337,000 per unit? Why so close to the beach? As one can easily see the CRDA and a few other agencies may be well intended but have often created larger problems then those they try to solve.
The fate of Atlantic City has always been in the hands of local politicians, and they have to rely on the votes from the local populace. So A.C. is governed by people who are for the most part poor.
What should have been done starting in the early 80's was aggressive use of eminent domain. Block by block starting on Pacific Ave. Pay people more then fare value for their properties, offer renters relocation funds to pay moving expenses and further financial help if needed.
But this would never be a viable plan with the local politicians in power. They would fight tooth and nail for their constituents. What was needed was state over-sight of the rebirth of Atlantic City. The local politicians would just get in the way. Who remembers former Mayor Langford referring to the new tourism district as "apartheid? Or his insistence that casinos not ACPD should patrol casino parking garages after the murder of a few tourists at the Taj Mahal parking garage.It is just that type of mentality that has fought against redevelopment in Atlantic City.
If I may, allow me to offer my opinions of just what went wrong in A.C. and why.
Resorts was the first of many casinos opening May 1978. It was believed by many that legal gambling would both improve Atlantic City, create tens of thousands of jobs and generate much tax revenue for the state of N.J.
Casinos soon popped up like April dandelions in A.C. The casino control commission had a few requirements for the physical buildings. Among them a minimum of 500 rooms had to be available to guests. So build they built huge VERTICAL towers containing hundreds if not thousands of rooms they did. They also added theaters, restaurants all within the confines of their buildings.
If they had instead either prohibited or limited hotels to say 10 floors, banned restaurants and theaters in close proximity to the casinos, the surrounding blocks around the casinos would have become immensely valuable as both hotel space and for other uses.
Instead self contained palaces of splendor were plopped down in the middle of some very challenged neighborhoods. These same neighborhoods would see very little economic benefit from the coming of gaming as most casinos were completely self contained.
It was believed back in the 70's that just building casinos would lead to massive redevelopment by the private sector in A.C. For the most part, it didn't happen.
One has to ask why? With billions spent on casino construction, creation of more jobs then there are residents of A.C. why is the city still struggling?
Shouldn't a Jersey Shore town with casinos and miles of boardwalk and beach be a very desirable place to live or retire?
Well yes it should but it isn't.
The C.R.D.A. spent over 1.2 billion on projects inside Atlantic City including over 1,000 low income housing units. It amounts to over $30,000 for every man woman and child who calls A.C. home.The most recent low income housing being built has a per unit cost of $337,000 and is 1 block from the beach. This has created a dead zone. Nobody will want to build or invest in close proximity to this latest project. Why does it cost $337,000 per unit? Why so close to the beach? As one can easily see the CRDA and a few other agencies may be well intended but have often created larger problems then those they try to solve.
The fate of Atlantic City has always been in the hands of local politicians, and they have to rely on the votes from the local populace. So A.C. is governed by people who are for the most part poor.
What should have been done starting in the early 80's was aggressive use of eminent domain. Block by block starting on Pacific Ave. Pay people more then fare value for their properties, offer renters relocation funds to pay moving expenses and further financial help if needed.
But this would never be a viable plan with the local politicians in power. They would fight tooth and nail for their constituents. What was needed was state over-sight of the rebirth of Atlantic City. The local politicians would just get in the way. Who remembers former Mayor Langford referring to the new tourism district as "apartheid? Or his insistence that casinos not ACPD should patrol casino parking garages after the murder of a few tourists at the Taj Mahal parking garage.It is just that type of mentality that has fought against redevelopment in Atlantic City.
January 9th, 2015 at 12:49:32 PM
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Dave great point. As for the theory that locals would get jobs. That was pie in the sky. The local population has many people with little education. They are only qualified for an entry level job. From there they could work their way up and steady rise in the ranks. Many locals did just that and now have great jobs. Unfortunately many more did nothing to improve their circumstances. The problem is there was and is no incentive to take that initial low wage job. Housing subsidies pay the rent. welfare and food stamps get them through the month. There is no need for a company sponsored health insurance with copy's when a trip to the AC ER for anything from a cold to a heart attack is free from the Medicaid.
Why work when you can stay home and get free stuff.
Why work when you can stay home and get free stuff.
January 9th, 2015 at 2:30:08 PM
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Quote: IntheknowVery good people, you obviously don't do drugs because you have good memories. Bob Roberts was my handle back then. Same bike, same abode, same opinions. Please give me at least a week on this forum.
Concerning water park. The AC press comment section (which I can only read, not respond) has a 90% favorable response, is in stark contrast to national news comment sections (see yahoo) which most think its a crazy plan, plus most add that AC is still a ghetto. I guess our reputation has yet to change.
I'm not saying a water park in AC is a crazy plan, but the new owner sounds like he's a little crazy & locating one in Revel is fitting a square peg into a round hole.
Brookfield walked away from a multi-million$ deposit due the outrageous electric bill, & other design problems, & determined they could not be offset by 100's of millions of $ in future gaming revenues.
I ask again how many water park tickets need to be sold each month, at what price, just to 1st cover the fixed electricity cost of 1.5million per month before Revel even turns on a light or a water pump to a slide? That's with zero labor cost, no overhead, taxes etc, & no repayment of the 200+ million purchase price & proposed improvements??
Straub inherited a lot of his money -but he's not THAT stupid. This plan would be a pipe dream 1000X the scale of the original Kevin D RV fiasco.
I think he's primarily a real estate flipper playing coy about wanting to keep the property, to negotiate a higher resale down the road.
He has the wherewithal to hang onto something he paid pennies on the $ for & take a chance on a multi-million $ profit flipping it - but he's in no rush.
Revel ownership was about to run out of operating money & had to take whatever offer was available at the moment.
I don't know if that will work for him, but at least 1 willing & able buyer did outbid him initially, so he might think he has little risk.
....Congrats on making it through your 1st day on the forum- 1 day at a time Bob!
January 9th, 2015 at 7:47:53 PM
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Chef Vola
Anyone notic the references to Chef Vola on the final season of Boardwark Empire?
If you do not know Vola it is the Rao's of AC
Been there for over 80 years.
Dine in a 1970s paneling covered basement.
Men and women share one restroom which is in the kitchen
Unlisted telephone number
Cash only
Tons of A list celebs have been here
Reservation is famously difficult. Reputation is you have to "know someone" to get in ( not true)
I have been there several times Food is very good. Desserts are excellent.
You ever been there?
Anyone notic the references to Chef Vola on the final season of Boardwark Empire?
If you do not know Vola it is the Rao's of AC
Been there for over 80 years.
Dine in a 1970s paneling covered basement.
Men and women share one restroom which is in the kitchen
Unlisted telephone number
Cash only
Tons of A list celebs have been here
Reservation is famously difficult. Reputation is you have to "know someone" to get in ( not true)
I have been there several times Food is very good. Desserts are excellent.
You ever been there?
January 10th, 2015 at 6:18:15 PM
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Quote: ScanChef Vola
Anyone notic the references to Chef Vola on the final season of Boardwark Empire?
If you do not know Vola it is the Rao's of AC
Been there for over 80 years.
Dine in a 1970s paneling covered basement.
Men and women share one restroom which is in the kitchen
Unlisted telephone number
Cash only
Tons of A list celebs have been here
Reservation is famously difficult. Reputation is you have to "know someone" to get in ( not true)
I have been there several times Food is very good. Desserts are excellent.
You ever been there?
just saw it recently -Nucky and Joe Kennedy dined @Chef Vola- Season 5, Episode 3
- ckout the Veal parm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhdDs6sKjcc
they still make it like that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWb-cJrTSTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrzF94O_AX4
January 11th, 2015 at 5:41:06 PM
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AC will rise to new glory again one day. Like the phoenix it will rise up out of the ashes with a new skin and a new sun.
AC needs to be envisioned a future city, a hub of technology, gaming, education, and innovation. It can and will be a city that gets restructured.
As others have pointed out there are many cities that rise from far worst scenarios. AC may never again be known solely as a gaming city, but that's not a bad thing.
With the tough crackdown on crime, elimination of gangs, and modernization of much infrastructure, the city will thrive once again.
AC needs to be envisioned a future city, a hub of technology, gaming, education, and innovation. It can and will be a city that gets restructured.
As others have pointed out there are many cities that rise from far worst scenarios. AC may never again be known solely as a gaming city, but that's not a bad thing.
With the tough crackdown on crime, elimination of gangs, and modernization of much infrastructure, the city will thrive once again.
January 11th, 2015 at 6:32:43 PM
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I wouldn`t hold my breath.
Happy days are here again
January 11th, 2015 at 6:33:13 PM
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How many blocks long is atlantic city? 48-50?
January 11th, 2015 at 10:52:43 PM
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Quote: IntheknowHow many blocks long is atlantic city? 48-50?
I know its under 4 miles long. (closer to 3 miles length I believe). So 50ish blocks sounds (and feels) about right. At least of Atlantic Ave, since that is the longest street that goes the whole length of AC (as well as Absecon Island).
Its actually a really small "city". I read an article once saying "its a town playing dress up as a big city" and I thought that was a really good summary.
January 12th, 2015 at 5:59:26 AM
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Lets call it 50 blocks for ease of math. As for the question "The future of Atlantic City". I'm not sure but it sure is going to cost a ton of money.
In the past 4 years the CRDA has spent 1,000,000,000 on the tourism zone. Add to that a City that has collected over $1,000,000,000 in the past four years. That's 2 billion dollars for the math challenged readers.
2 billion divided by 50 blocks is $40,000,000 per block in the past four years.
I live in Atlantic City and I haven't seen $400.00 worth of improvements on my block. Where's the money going? We need to see tangible improvements.
There's a lot of talk, a lot of plans, a lot of dreams yet the City still wallows in garbage.
It is downright depressing. The most under-utilized City in the world.
In the past 4 years the CRDA has spent 1,000,000,000 on the tourism zone. Add to that a City that has collected over $1,000,000,000 in the past four years. That's 2 billion dollars for the math challenged readers.
2 billion divided by 50 blocks is $40,000,000 per block in the past four years.
I live in Atlantic City and I haven't seen $400.00 worth of improvements on my block. Where's the money going? We need to see tangible improvements.
There's a lot of talk, a lot of plans, a lot of dreams yet the City still wallows in garbage.
It is downright depressing. The most under-utilized City in the world.
January 12th, 2015 at 6:01:03 AM
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Quote: GandlerAC will rise to new glory again one day. Like the phoenix it will rise up out of the ashes with a new skin and a new sun.
AC needs to be envisioned a future city, a hub of technology, gaming, education, and innovation. It can and will be a city that gets restructured.
As others have pointed out there are many cities that rise from far worst scenarios. AC may never again be known solely as a gaming city, but that's not a bad thing.
With the tough crackdown on crime, elimination of gangs, and modernization of much infrastructure, the city will thrive once again.
Well that's the most optimistic view of AC I've heard in a long time. I hope you're right but see several major hurdles.
1. The local politicians are so corrupt/incompetent that getting anything meaningful done in terms of change seems really unlikely.
2. The crime problem in AC, is really an economic problem. There is very little in AC, outside of the casinos. No viable business opporunities, the tax base is crap and most of the cities housing is low income blight. If it was one or two bad areas that would be one thing..it could be redeveloped to help the area. But MOST OF AC, needs a wrecking ball, I just don't see where the money would come from. Or who would be interested in redevelopment.
3. The Beach/boardwalk in AC is the worst in terms of quality of any beach I've been to at the Jersey Shore. People interested in going down the shore, just don't go to AC. That's a long held perception. Going to be tough to change. So what should be AC's biggest asset (a beach and boardwalk) not only doesn't help them much, it may actually hurt them. As others have pointed out the casinos doing the best are the ones in the Marina area not the boardwalk side.
I hope for an AC rebirth, I really do. But I don't think we are quite at the bottom yet.
January 16th, 2015 at 5:34:14 AM
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Atlantic City Mayor:" At Least We're Not Detroit" (will he soon envy Detroit?)
"At least we're not the Titanic"- Captain of Costa Concordia, the Italian cruise ship that sank off the coast of Italy in January 2012
I don't know, at least Detroit has some tax base left for those who stayed (less than 1/2 of the former population) & stopped taking on water.
AC is trying to plug billion $ gaming revenue holes with "feel good" lame free promotions.
Read more: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Atlantic-City-Mayor-At-Least-Were-Not-Detroit-288777611.html#ixzz3OzUEhFIZ
Follow us: @nbcphiladelphia on Twitter | nbcphiladelphia on Facebook
"At least we're not the Titanic"- Captain of Costa Concordia, the Italian cruise ship that sank off the coast of Italy in January 2012
I don't know, at least Detroit has some tax base left for those who stayed (less than 1/2 of the former population) & stopped taking on water.
AC is trying to plug billion $ gaming revenue holes with "feel good" lame free promotions.
Read more: http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Atlantic-City-Mayor-At-Least-Were-Not-Detroit-288777611.html#ixzz3OzUEhFIZ
Follow us: @nbcphiladelphia on Twitter | nbcphiladelphia on Facebook
January 16th, 2015 at 5:54:30 AM
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Quote: Intheknow
In the past 4 years the CRDA has spent 1,000,000,000 on the tourism zone. Add to that a City that has collected over $1,000,000,000 in the past four years. That's 2 billion dollars for the math challenged readers.
Sources? Especially the for the city number. That's too high...might you have an extra 0 in there?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
January 16th, 2015 at 6:31:36 AM
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Municipal taxes are $240,000,000/year. School taxes are $156,000,000/year ($25,000/student). I actually understated city number. My numbers here aren't exact but they are close enough.
January 16th, 2015 at 6:48:43 AM
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Quote: IntheknowMunicipal taxes are $240,000,000/year. School taxes are $156,000,000/year ($25,000/student). I actually understated city number. My numbers here aren't exact but they are close enough.
Atlantic -Atlantic City Tot spend $183,301,283 enrollment 7,139 per student $25,676
http://www.nj.com/education/2014/05/average_nj_per_pupil_spending_almost_19k_new_report_finds.html
School Budgets: The Worst Education Money Can Buy
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2011/06/06/School-Budgets-The-Worst-Education-Money-Can-Buy
January 16th, 2015 at 6:57:26 AM
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I was there since the beginning. Although living in North Jersey most of my life and having business interests in Camden and Phili I am very aware of the surroundings and what could have been done. It would have been the right move to move everyone out of AC that was not casino industry related and qualified---and relocating them all to Camden County. I don't say this for spite or to be funny, but Camden and the area had more realistic jobs available for those that would work (again, not qualified to pass the background of CCC for licensing, etc.) Also Camden PD and Camden County S.O. better qualified to handle the people. Could have been done with incentives to the transplanted people as well as businesses in Camden to hire them. But, as we all know, that and anything like that could have only happened back then.
Bac79=Hazardous Material and Chemical person correcting other's mistakes. Non AP'er, I can't count cards, low intelligence. Sprinkles magical dust on the cards. Has a lucky monkey. Baby also has a green one. Sum it up: "It's okay just blame me, it's all my fault"! ( No one believes me--so I chose to stop posting)
January 16th, 2015 at 8:04:03 AM
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Quote: 7star4nowAtlantic City Mayor:" At Least We're Not Detroit"
Yeah, a tiny example. My x-wife had a friend that opened a small Asian restaurant on the main commercial north/south artery just west of the casinos. Right around the Dunkin Dounuts there. Anyways, after a couple years in business (back in the late 90's) she goes to renovate and expand and wants to bust down a wall of an abandoned building next door--which the landlord also owned. City inspectors made her pay about $80,000.00 or so in plans, architects, engineering and related professionals certifying everything and what the build out was going to be. The city inspectors in their final stage came in and ordered a top to bottom inspection of her current restaurant. In short, she had many violations that were seemingly never caught years before and now they wanted her to fix them. She did. All involving grease hood, exhaust and other equipment violations. All good. Tens of thousands of dollars later she is back to the expansion. Fast forward about two more years and tens of thousands of additional red tape. The city refused to let her do it unless she bought the building and renovated the top 3 floors as well. In other words, everything in the building would have to be brought to code in an older building including handicap, fire escapes and roofing issues (the roof was not leaking and perfectly fine according to a contractor she hired). It turned out to be cost prohibitive. Guess she didn't pay off the right official? But the atmosphere of the city with respects to business was and is poor.Bac79=Hazardous Material and Chemical person correcting other's mistakes. Non AP'er, I can't count cards, low intelligence. Sprinkles magical dust on the cards. Has a lucky monkey. Baby also has a green one. Sum it up: "It's okay just blame me, it's all my fault"! ( No one believes me--so I chose to stop posting)
January 16th, 2015 at 8:26:35 AM
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There's many ignorant, some are down right stupid, people in City Government. There are also many ex-convicts working in City Government (see heroin dealer running the All Wars Building until busted dealing while on job, he had 18 priors).
Basically the inmates have been running the asylum for all these years and no one cared because everyone was grabbing the Casino cash. The party is over and yet the inmates still want their money.
If you ask someone if they're from Atlantic City and they say "born and raised" that means they're entitled in some way to receive over paid government positions within the City. Custodians in AC High School make $72,000/year, three times national average. We probably have 100's of police and fire Captains, Sargeants, etc.....for 50 blocks of a City? Crazy.
Basically the inmates have been running the asylum for all these years and no one cared because everyone was grabbing the Casino cash. The party is over and yet the inmates still want their money.
If you ask someone if they're from Atlantic City and they say "born and raised" that means they're entitled in some way to receive over paid government positions within the City. Custodians in AC High School make $72,000/year, three times national average. We probably have 100's of police and fire Captains, Sargeants, etc.....for 50 blocks of a City? Crazy.
January 16th, 2015 at 10:01:23 AM
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Yada, yada, yada....same old, same old.... Not much in the way of improving the existing residential areas or the making those areas safer. Mostly talk of casino's. I know that's a big part of the city, but to focus on casino's only has been what contributed to many of the problems with the city itself. They should be putting money into the city improvements (roads, safety, infrastructure, etc.) and make it one people will WANT to visit.
http://www.njcrda.com/featured-news/atlantic-citys-future-casino-reinvestment-development-authoritys-plans-diversity-citys-economy-builds-significant-momentum/
http://www.njcrda.com/featured-news/atlantic-citys-future-casino-reinvestment-development-authoritys-plans-diversity-citys-economy-builds-significant-momentum/
You only go around once, but if you play your cards right, once is enough.”
¯ Francis Albert
January 16th, 2015 at 11:16:56 AM
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Why didn't Brigantine get crime ridden and all run down over the years??
Bac79=Hazardous Material and Chemical person correcting other's mistakes. Non AP'er, I can't count cards, low intelligence. Sprinkles magical dust on the cards. Has a lucky monkey. Baby also has a green one. Sum it up: "It's okay just blame me, it's all my fault"! ( No one believes me--so I chose to stop posting)
January 16th, 2015 at 1:35:47 PM
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Atlantic City population by year.
Historical population
Census
Pop.
%±
1860 687 —
1870 1,043 51.8%
1880 5,477 425.1%
1890 13,055 138.4%
1900 27,838 113.2%
1910 46,150 65.8%
1920 50,707 9.9%
1930 66,198 30.6%
1940 64,094 −3.2%
1950 61,657 −3.8%
1960 59,544 −3.4%
1970 47,859 −19.6%
1980 40,199 −16.0%
1990 37,986 −5.5%
2000 40,517 6.7%
2010 39,558 −2.4%
If you look Atlantic City had a major "shift" in population between 1960 and 1980. In those 20 years Atlantic City lost nearly 1/3rd of its population.
It also grew increasingly poor and minority during this time. White flight happened and many areas such as The Inlet became home to many abandoned properties.
Despite casinos and tens of thousands of jobs, Atlantic City has essentially the same population as it did in about 1905.
Historical population
Census
Pop.
%±
1860 687 —
1870 1,043 51.8%
1880 5,477 425.1%
1890 13,055 138.4%
1900 27,838 113.2%
1910 46,150 65.8%
1920 50,707 9.9%
1930 66,198 30.6%
1940 64,094 −3.2%
1950 61,657 −3.8%
1960 59,544 −3.4%
1970 47,859 −19.6%
1980 40,199 −16.0%
1990 37,986 −5.5%
2000 40,517 6.7%
2010 39,558 −2.4%
If you look Atlantic City had a major "shift" in population between 1960 and 1980. In those 20 years Atlantic City lost nearly 1/3rd of its population.
It also grew increasingly poor and minority during this time. White flight happened and many areas such as The Inlet became home to many abandoned properties.
Despite casinos and tens of thousands of jobs, Atlantic City has essentially the same population as it did in about 1905.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:48:11 PM
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"Atlantic City lost nearly 1/3rd of its population.It also grew increasingly poor and minority during this time. White flight happened and many areas such as The Inlet became home to many abandoned properties."
So despite what the Mayor says, AC IS ALREADY Detroit, & sinking faster once the full impact of the recent closures hits (without the recent optimism that Detroit has enjoyed).
That's the AC attitude!
"sure our customer service sucks , & we bite the hand of players who feed us, but our death spiral is not as bad as theirs- yet"
So despite what the Mayor says, AC IS ALREADY Detroit, & sinking faster once the full impact of the recent closures hits (without the recent optimism that Detroit has enjoyed).
That's the AC attitude!
"sure our customer service sucks , & we bite the hand of players who feed us, but our death spiral is not as bad as theirs- yet"
January 16th, 2015 at 2:21:02 PM
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I think they want to bankrupt property owners first then declare bankruptcy as a City. I don't understand why the City doesn't declare bankruptcy immediately and start from scratch. Maybe the decision makers are concerned about their pensions? Maybe borrowing and borrowing is the new America ?
January 22nd, 2015 at 10:50:58 AM
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Christie: I'm Taking Over Atlantic City
http://www.newser.com/story/201670/christie-im-taking-over-atlantic-city.html
http://www.newser.com/story/201670/christie-im-taking-over-atlantic-city.html
January 22nd, 2015 at 11:20:45 AM
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Wish for a long long hot summer and hope they re-invent jello shots, the mechanical bull, mud wrestling and other cheap 'events'.
Bac79=Hazardous Material and Chemical person correcting other's mistakes. Non AP'er, I can't count cards, low intelligence. Sprinkles magical dust on the cards. Has a lucky monkey. Baby also has a green one. Sum it up: "It's okay just blame me, it's all my fault"! ( No one believes me--so I chose to stop posting)
January 22nd, 2015 at 12:13:31 PM
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At least one is a bankruptcy expert. Local government employees past and present should be concerned.
January 22nd, 2015 at 6:26:47 PM
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Orr not taking Atlantic City job
LANSING (WKZO) -- Detroit's former emergency manager is not about to go try to bring another city out of a financial abyss.
Kevyn Orr's spokesman tells the "Detroit News" that while he has counseled New Jersey Governor Chris Christie on a state takeover of a struggling city, Orr will not be going to work in Atlantic City. According to the "Philadelphia Enquirer," Christie is announcing a "Detroit-style emergency manager" to take over Atlantic City.
http://wkzo.com/news/articles/2015/jan/23/orr-not-taking-atlantic-city-job/
LANSING (WKZO) -- Detroit's former emergency manager is not about to go try to bring another city out of a financial abyss.
Kevyn Orr's spokesman tells the "Detroit News" that while he has counseled New Jersey Governor Chris Christie on a state takeover of a struggling city, Orr will not be going to work in Atlantic City. According to the "Philadelphia Enquirer," Christie is announcing a "Detroit-style emergency manager" to take over Atlantic City.
http://wkzo.com/news/articles/2015/jan/23/orr-not-taking-atlantic-city-job/
January 22nd, 2015 at 6:48:08 PM
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Yes he will he just wants more money. Skanks one and all.
January 27th, 2015 at 8:34:13 AM
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In my opinion, one of the great downfalls of AC, is the bad casino games, and rules. Whenever I have seen a new casino game offered, and checked it out on the web, its always gives the game in Vegas and the game in AC and what do you know AC game is always worse.
these bad rules being in almost every casino, is just collusion, and the anti trust laws should have stopped it. Hell I think a class action suit by players would be nice.
Since AC casinos are not required to advertise their game rules, for easy comparison and competition, and the casinos appear to short sighted to offer better rules the state has to step in.
If you want more costumers into casinos what do you do... you offer looser slots more jackpots, better games and you advertise.
who has the best games rules Borgata and Golden Nugget...which ones do best and grow l Borgata and Golden Nugget.
If the state wants to save the short sighted AC casinos...make rules for games mandatory (to protect the poor idiot gamblers), and then advertise it. PA did that, why not NJ.
Sure AC should fix up the city, offer more winter activities, offer more non gambling activities and diversify as Vegas did....but first and foremost in a gambling town, fix the gambling.
these bad rules being in almost every casino, is just collusion, and the anti trust laws should have stopped it. Hell I think a class action suit by players would be nice.
Since AC casinos are not required to advertise their game rules, for easy comparison and competition, and the casinos appear to short sighted to offer better rules the state has to step in.
If you want more costumers into casinos what do you do... you offer looser slots more jackpots, better games and you advertise.
who has the best games rules Borgata and Golden Nugget...which ones do best and grow l Borgata and Golden Nugget.
If the state wants to save the short sighted AC casinos...make rules for games mandatory (to protect the poor idiot gamblers), and then advertise it. PA did that, why not NJ.
Sure AC should fix up the city, offer more winter activities, offer more non gambling activities and diversify as Vegas did....but first and foremost in a gambling town, fix the gambling.
January 27th, 2015 at 10:13:44 AM
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Amen. Used to be able to put 20 in a slot machine and play for 30 minutes. Now you're lucky to play for ten minutes on 20 bucks. It ain't no fun hitting a "bonus" for $3.75.
January 27th, 2015 at 11:52:09 AM
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Quote: EazzyIn my opinion, one of the great downfalls of AC, is the bad casino games, and rules. Whenever I have seen a new casino game offered, and checked it out on the web, its always gives the game in Vegas and the game in AC and what do you know AC game is always worse.
these bad rules being in almost every casino, is just collusion, and the anti trust laws should have stopped it. Hell I think a class action suit by players would be nice.
Since AC casinos are not required to advertise their game rules, for easy comparison and competition, and the casinos appear to short sighted to offer better rules the state has to step in.
If you want more costumers into casinos what do you do... you offer looser slots more jackpots, better games and you advertise.
who has the best games rules Borgata and Golden Nugget...which ones do best and grow l Borgata and Golden Nugget.
If the state wants to save the short sighted AC casinos...make rules for games mandatory (to protect the poor idiot gamblers), and then advertise it. PA did that, why not NJ.
Sure AC should fix up the city, offer more winter activities, offer more non gambling activities and diversify as Vegas did....but first and foremost in a gambling town, fix the gambling.
Don't crow about PA. They have perhaps the lowest slot payouts in the USA and their decling revenues show it.
