Atlantic City Open Forum
June 21st, 2014 at 8:26:15 AM
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Quote: 7star4nowWhat really doomed Revel from (before) day 1?
While some may want to use it's unparalleled failure as an excuse to rekindle the "tastes great/less filling" shtick of a non smoking casino debate , for their own questionable motivations, smokers represented only a piece of the general population the CEO turned off - well before the place even opened.
When you put together, what he said, in his own words, he managed to condescendingly turn off, the majority of potential customers with disparaging remarks towards some aspect of their background, lifestyles or tastes:
Revel 's talking points on How to win friends & influence people in the gaming business.
A future Harvard Business School case study of positive Marketing?:
Low rollers:
Revel will not compete hard for the convenience gambler, who comes to town, plays for an hour or two, then leaves."That's not a customer we can survive on," he said. "It's just not going to happen. "
guests who can only visit (1) nite:
"We need an overnight stay. We're looking for two nights."
Union workers:
“Local 54 has tried as hard as it could to kill this project,”... “I have nothing to talk to them about."
Smoking patrons:
"so yesterday"
Buffet aficionados:
"mass feederies"
High rollers:
Revel will not have a players lounge.
Wonder why a lot of people didn't feel "welcome" at Revel?
Even after they reversed these policies, many players did not feel comfortable giving them their play, since the majority of players falls into one or more of the demographics Revel ITSELF said it looked down on.
Great post. All of the issues in one simple post. The only thing you missed is that all of these quotes were from Kevin DeSanctis and were also spouted by his mouthpiece "UkStages" for almost a year. I wonder if the 2 of them sit down and have a few drinks and still try and figure out where they went wrong and if they are even willing to give themselves any of the blame?
June 22nd, 2014 at 7:43:57 AM
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http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20140622_Experts_not_enthusiastic_about_future_of_Revel.html
Story from Philly about Revel. Doesnt look good according to these expects with one going as far as to say the best thing that could have happened to Revel was Hurricane Sandy sending it into the Ocean instead of the Roller Coaster in Seaside Heights. Brutal, just Brutal.
Story from Philly about Revel. Doesnt look good according to these expects with one going as far as to say the best thing that could have happened to Revel was Hurricane Sandy sending it into the Ocean instead of the Roller Coaster in Seaside Heights. Brutal, just Brutal.
June 22nd, 2014 at 8:14:14 AM
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Quote: Bozhttp://www.philly.com/philly/business/20140622_Experts_not_enthusiastic_about_future_of_Revel.html
Story from Philly about Revel. Doesnt look good according to these expects with one going as far as to say the best thing that could have happened to Revel was Hurricane Sandy sending it into the Ocean instead of the Roller Coaster in Seaside Heights. Brutal, just Brutal.
Their EBITDA is negative and seemingly irreversibly so. Therefore even if they could stiff all their creditors principal and interest (which of course they can't) they will still be out of business unless they can dramatically cut costs or increase revenue. Cost cutting is very difficult as the place is so expensive to run. Increased revenue is impossible as competition is only increasing -Harrah's is opening up a big joint in Baltimore in August.
June 23rd, 2014 at 8:08:33 AM
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Supreme Court rejects Gov. Christie's appeal to legalize sports gambling in New Jersey
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/supreme-court-rejects-sports-betting-in-new-jersey-20140623-00692
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/supreme-court-rejects-sports-betting-in-new-jersey-20140623-00692
June 23rd, 2014 at 8:17:03 AM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 23rd, 2014 at 8:48:25 AM
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what are the chances this place will just sit closed down for a long period of time?
Even if this place was ran right( what ever that formula may be ) is there enough gamblers willing to spend time gambling in AC. AC has one day worth of things to do, other then gambling (how many times can someone walk that dam boring boardwalk?) AC is just not interesting enough.
Even if this place was ran right( what ever that formula may be ) is there enough gamblers willing to spend time gambling in AC. AC has one day worth of things to do, other then gambling (how many times can someone walk that dam boring boardwalk?) AC is just not interesting enough.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
June 23rd, 2014 at 10:04:53 AM
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Next month we will be in AC for 5 days with 2 little kids. Like u said, there really isn't anything to do in AC but we stay for free. 2 days will be spent on a beach, 1 day we will drive to Wildwood, and another day we will keep open. Without the free hotel we probably wouldn't get to do this. I hope AC eventually gets figured out and we keep the ability to get free rooms.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
June 23rd, 2014 at 1:02:52 PM
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Quote: BozGreat post. All of the issues in one simple post. The only thing you missed is that all of these quotes were from Kevin DeSanctis and were also spouted by his mouthpiece "UkStages" for almost a year. I wonder if the 2 of them sit down and have a few drinks and still try and figure out where they went wrong and if they are even willing to give themselves any of the blame?
Shame on us who blamed Revel mngt. for its colossal meltdown.
We were warned .
Weren't we always assured Revel was well run & well financed ? -but we all know evil, outside forces, such as union leaders & big tobacco execs circle over it in the dead of night in the black helicopters
A "savvy" poster predicted this would happen:
">>Some folks just seem awfully eager for Revel to fail and seem to post negative issues with glee.<<
outside forces are at play. many of these folks are not ordinary people who just happen to have strong opinions about the revel. some of the most vocal opponents to the revel are posters who signed up just so they could have their voice heard on all things relating to the revel. some have likely never even been to ATLANTIC CITY.
who are they? i suspect many of them are union members (the revel is non-union) and allies of the tobacco industry (the revel is a building in which smoking is not allowed). and they are attempting to manipulate social media to get their message across, much the same way they used to attend town hall meetings and community board meetings.
>>Not a good sign though that 2 days after the philadelphia newspaper article about bankruptcy<<
bankruptcy?
what bankruptcy?
did the revel file for bankruptcy? i think you are very much mistaken!
my goodness, how DO these rumors get started?"
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g29750-i78-k5692685-o20-More_no_so_good_news_about_Revel-Atlantic_City_New_Jersey.html#43086612
I guess the rest of us were just not capable of seeing or hearing these black helicopters - since we did not possess the same level of intelligence as this poster.
I can't wait for George Noory & Art Bell to reveal the truth behind the real truth behind the Revel instantly turning into a black hole.
I'm surprised this post didn't bring up the most destructive force, we all know, conspired against Revel.
Those damn aliens who own casinos on other planets, using weapons of mass destruction to take down our server based casinos, before they take over the Earth & establish a gaming monopoly.
June 23rd, 2014 at 2:23:31 PM
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Revel auction set for Aug. 6; date is tentative
Revel AC Inc. has set Aug. 6 as the tentative auction date for Atlantic City's Revel Casino Hotel, subject to bankruptcy court approval.
In order to participate in the auction, bidders will have to submit qualified bids by Aug. 1, according to a motion filed Saturday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the District of New Jersey by lawyers for Revel.
The attorneys requested a July 11 hearing on the bid procedures, arguing that Revel doesn't have enough money to continue operating for long.
"Without an expedited sale, the debtors would have no obvious alternative other than to cease operations and liquidate their assets," the motion filed Saturday said.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20140624_Revel_auction_set_for_Aug__6__date_is_tentative.html#XGmZxVGpkLGOGolJ.99
Revel AC Inc. has set Aug. 6 as the tentative auction date for Atlantic City's Revel Casino Hotel, subject to bankruptcy court approval.
In order to participate in the auction, bidders will have to submit qualified bids by Aug. 1, according to a motion filed Saturday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the District of New Jersey by lawyers for Revel.
The attorneys requested a July 11 hearing on the bid procedures, arguing that Revel doesn't have enough money to continue operating for long.
"Without an expedited sale, the debtors would have no obvious alternative other than to cease operations and liquidate their assets," the motion filed Saturday said.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20140624_Revel_auction_set_for_Aug__6__date_is_tentative.html#XGmZxVGpkLGOGolJ.99
June 23rd, 2014 at 2:41:14 PM
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Interesting view of Revel from the inside:
What caused this $2.2 billion dollar casino to implode to the point that it's about to go through bankruptcy a second time and may even close down? The answer could be, that it was doomed to fail from the start.
In 2011, Rob Thomas went on a job interview at Revel prior to its opening. The job was for a Senior Content Manager for their website. "The excitement was incredible" he said. "You just felt that this casino was going to be the very thing that brought Atlantic City back to life."
The first person he met was the recruiter who called him in the first place. "The recruiter was very nice and explained that this casino was going to be like no other. That this was going to be a new vacation spot for an 'untapped' market of 20 million people in the area" Rob said.
"I jokingly explained that Atlantic City has tapped those people since it first opened for gambling in the late 1970s, but the recruiter just laughed it off and said, not those people."
Rob then met with another man, presumably the person he would be reporting to. The man explained that he previously worked in the Atlantis, in the Bahamas and mentioned that most of the people employed at Revel have prior experience working in casinos around the world, but none of them ever really worked at an Atlantic City or Connecticut casino.
"This concerned me, because if you don't understand New Yorkers or people from New Jersey, you will not understand what drives them to want to come to Atlantic City" Rob said. "He seemed unfazed by the fact that I have been coming to Atlantic City for over 25 years with my family."
The man went on to explain further that Revel will not be looking to target regular slot players like Rob's mother, or regular poker players like his father. He said they are looking for people that will come to Atlantic City for a vacation, because as the man put it “when I go to the rooftop, I feel like it’s a vacation spot, like I am at the Caribbean. They will have an exclusive and expensive spa that people will enjoy like they are truly on vacation."
Rob found this problematic because people in the tri-state area come to Atlantic City for a day or two at most. "Many just come for one day and go home. Most would rather go to an expensive spa in New York than travel to Atlantic City for one" Rob said.
It’s no surprise that a year later, as they were about to go through their first bankruptcy, they all of a sudden started a “Gamblers Wanted” campaign, in an effort to bring gamblers back to the casino.
"The problem with that was, they were so focused on actually believing that New Yorkers would go to Revel for a vacation, just for the spa, that they made the casino uncomfortably small, unusually expensive and unsuitable for large crowds" Rob said. "They were just so naive and in denial from the start."
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/25840256/revel-without-a-cause?clienttype=mobile
What caused this $2.2 billion dollar casino to implode to the point that it's about to go through bankruptcy a second time and may even close down? The answer could be, that it was doomed to fail from the start.
In 2011, Rob Thomas went on a job interview at Revel prior to its opening. The job was for a Senior Content Manager for their website. "The excitement was incredible" he said. "You just felt that this casino was going to be the very thing that brought Atlantic City back to life."
The first person he met was the recruiter who called him in the first place. "The recruiter was very nice and explained that this casino was going to be like no other. That this was going to be a new vacation spot for an 'untapped' market of 20 million people in the area" Rob said.
"I jokingly explained that Atlantic City has tapped those people since it first opened for gambling in the late 1970s, but the recruiter just laughed it off and said, not those people."
Rob then met with another man, presumably the person he would be reporting to. The man explained that he previously worked in the Atlantis, in the Bahamas and mentioned that most of the people employed at Revel have prior experience working in casinos around the world, but none of them ever really worked at an Atlantic City or Connecticut casino.
"This concerned me, because if you don't understand New Yorkers or people from New Jersey, you will not understand what drives them to want to come to Atlantic City" Rob said. "He seemed unfazed by the fact that I have been coming to Atlantic City for over 25 years with my family."
The man went on to explain further that Revel will not be looking to target regular slot players like Rob's mother, or regular poker players like his father. He said they are looking for people that will come to Atlantic City for a vacation, because as the man put it “when I go to the rooftop, I feel like it’s a vacation spot, like I am at the Caribbean. They will have an exclusive and expensive spa that people will enjoy like they are truly on vacation."
Rob found this problematic because people in the tri-state area come to Atlantic City for a day or two at most. "Many just come for one day and go home. Most would rather go to an expensive spa in New York than travel to Atlantic City for one" Rob said.
It’s no surprise that a year later, as they were about to go through their first bankruptcy, they all of a sudden started a “Gamblers Wanted” campaign, in an effort to bring gamblers back to the casino.
"The problem with that was, they were so focused on actually believing that New Yorkers would go to Revel for a vacation, just for the spa, that they made the casino uncomfortably small, unusually expensive and unsuitable for large crowds" Rob said. "They were just so naive and in denial from the start."
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/25840256/revel-without-a-cause?clienttype=mobile
June 23rd, 2014 at 7:22:26 PM
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Too young to have visited the Playboy, but from what I've read they made similar mistakes that doomed them(casino tough to navigate, was designed like a European casino which didn't fit with AC gamblers). Not to say it didnt look breathtakingly sleek from photos I saw, but not appropriate for AC.
The same could be said for Revel. It oozes luxury but it's not designed to be easy to navigate or find your favorite table game. I had to actively hunt down their baccarat pit, and when baccarat makes up more and more of the table games profit, that's not a good sign. And with all $100 tables on a Weekday at lunchtime, they were far too pricey for me anyway.
The same could be said for Revel. It oozes luxury but it's not designed to be easy to navigate or find your favorite table game. I had to actively hunt down their baccarat pit, and when baccarat makes up more and more of the table games profit, that's not a good sign. And with all $100 tables on a Weekday at lunchtime, they were far too pricey for me anyway.
June 23rd, 2014 at 7:38:41 PM
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Quote: silversonic2006Too young to have visited the Playboy, but from what I've read they made similar mistakes that doomed them(casino tough to navigate, was designed like a European casino which didn't fit with AC gamblers). Not to say it didnt look breathtakingly sleek from photos I saw, but not appropriate for AC.
The same could be said for Revel. It oozes luxury but it's not designed to be easy to navigate or find your favorite table game. I had to actively hunt down their baccarat pit, and when baccarat makes up more and more of the table games profit, that's not a good sign. And with all $100 tables on a Weekday at lunchtime, they were far too pricey for me anyway.[/
I am an old dog and played at th e Playboy. Quite often 4 of us would ride the bus from Baltimore. Get $35 in quarters and prime rib upon arrival. So I tried to give them my action. Hard to do. We won stay until insulted . Never took long. Dealer waving smoke back in. Somebody's face. Ask. When last bus left, told to call the bus company. Kicker was a trip where we went to get our $35.one time. Designated floor cage on a rotation basis. So each had all denominations. Josie asked for Dollar slugs for slots. Was told you bus people get quarters maybe they will change them for you over there. We already had our prime rib do. We took $140 in quarters in our taxi to the Marina.
I think it was some regulatory decision that led to them closing. Girls were great eye candy and lovely to talk to at BJ TABLES.
Pretty good dealers too. Although I sometimes overtime and then the girl would pay me too much on a barber pole bet. Merely a coincidence I am sure. One of our administrators here had her pix in Playbook. Here's a hint, it was not Face.Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
June 23rd, 2014 at 9:31:56 PM
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delete
I am a robot.
June 23rd, 2014 at 9:32:48 PM
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Hearing about the planning, I just want to know more. It might have worked if done gradually, but you can't just start your casino player base fleecing everyone without any good memories to bring them back.
Nobody wants this place and it's worth more dead than alive. They're killing it thinking it's under valued again. It has to sell cheap enough to be able to afford to fix it or they do have to close the doors before anyone can take it when reality finally sets in.
$1 is how much it should sell for.
Nobody wants this place and it's worth more dead than alive. They're killing it thinking it's under valued again. It has to sell cheap enough to be able to afford to fix it or they do have to close the doors before anyone can take it when reality finally sets in.
$1 is how much it should sell for.
I am a robot.
June 23rd, 2014 at 10:25:09 PM
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I think the problem with the Revel is that nobody really wants to enter the depressed AC market now anyway so really, at what price point does Revel become a viable option? At the end of the day you are only buying a reasonably nice looking building. There is no discernable players club nor is there any type of brand recognition or loyalty from anybody.
This sale, imo, can only go through to a very visible and highly recognisable organisation who has a well established players club and database who can funnel players to the property and try and get the gaming figures up (which in turn I believe will increase turnover in other areas such as F&B and perhaps clubs and retail).
This is what MGM has been doing for the past few years in order to make a dent in their debt cycle at City Center. All the big VIP's have been funneled to Aria.
There is just so much muck here at Revel that it is hard to know what good value would be for the place because even if a well established brand had taken over, people have been so slighted by this place, they may never want to return anyway.
I'm afraid that the only way out is to buy the place for rock bottom dollar and board it up until things improve in AC.........
This sale, imo, can only go through to a very visible and highly recognisable organisation who has a well established players club and database who can funnel players to the property and try and get the gaming figures up (which in turn I believe will increase turnover in other areas such as F&B and perhaps clubs and retail).
This is what MGM has been doing for the past few years in order to make a dent in their debt cycle at City Center. All the big VIP's have been funneled to Aria.
There is just so much muck here at Revel that it is hard to know what good value would be for the place because even if a well established brand had taken over, people have been so slighted by this place, they may never want to return anyway.
I'm afraid that the only way out is to buy the place for rock bottom dollar and board it up until things improve in AC.........
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
June 23rd, 2014 at 11:14:08 PM
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Quote: Tomspur
This sale, imo, can only go through to a very visible and highly recognisable organisation who has a well established players club and database who can funnel players to the property and try and get the gaming figures up (which in turn I believe will increase turnover in other areas such as F&B and perhaps clubs and retail).
.
Still think MGM/Boyd should buy it and rebrand it as Borgata Beach or something similar. Imagine the Borgata playerbase and excellent management on Revel's gorgeous property.
June 23rd, 2014 at 11:27:10 PM
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Quote: sodawaterStill think MGM/Boyd should buy it and rebrand it as Borgata Beach or something similar. Imagine the Borgata playerbase and excellent management on Revel's gorgeous property.
Agreed but will any of those high profile companies want to take a chance on the AC market right now?
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
June 24th, 2014 at 12:26:10 AM
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Quote: TomspurAgreed but will any of those high profile companies want to take a chance on the AC market right now?
If the price is right. If you can really get a brand new, $2 billion resort for 5 cents on the dollar ($100M), OR LESS, imagine how profitable that would be if you had the existing player-base and loyalty programs to fill those rooms. Caesars or Borgata (MGM/Boyd) are the only two companies established in AC that could do this right now.
June 24th, 2014 at 12:31:54 AM
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Quote: sodawaterIf the price is right. If you can really get a brand new, $2 billion resort for 5 cents on the dollar ($100M), OR LESS, imagine how profitable that would be if you had the existing player-base and loyalty programs to fill those rooms. Caesars or Borgata (MGM/Boyd) are the only two companies established in AC that could do this right now.
Once again I cannot argue with you but my fear is that those properties have other commitments in AC (even MGM is trying to get re-licensed in AC so they may reclaim their 50% stake in Borgata) and that they are having trouble filling their own hotels on a consistent basis, how can they fill a new 3000 room hotel with a bad reputation?
Perhaps an outside player (perhaps Hard Rock, perhaps somone else) who has no other vestings in AC would be the boost that economy needs? They will focus all their database power to get what they can into and consequently out of that property.
What about if the current owners have done such irreparable damage to the image and name "Revel" that no matter what other companies do, they will simply never return to "that place" because of what they had experienced in the past?
How would you quantify that in the final valuation of the property before purchase?
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
June 24th, 2014 at 6:22:27 AM
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Sh!t about to hit the fan? "CHRISTIE-BACKED CASINO GOES BUST IN NJ"...National Media outlet stumbles on Revel fiasco
I am a Christie fan in general, but Revel remains an undiscovered smorgasbord of red meat for the army of Christie haters (&Hillary's opposition research).
If you are familiar with Breitbart, they are often an initial source for stories that proliferate inside the beltway & mainstream media.
The Christie haters were unable to pin traffic-gate on him directly, but that fizzling scandal could pale by comparison.
I think 2 key potential smoking guns may be ripe for further investigation:
1. It's almost defies belief that private investment cos. would have gone near this mess, for which a freshman MBA student could see the #'s were way out of whack , without some serious political arm twisting.Did these investment cos. get other political favors in return?
"In late January 2011, Revel and its advisor J.P. Morgan, proposed a three-loan, $1.5 billion package that would allow construction on the project to be completed. A week later, Gov. Christie announced $260 million in tax breaks over 20 years to aid the casino. The New Jersey Economic Development Authority quickly approved Christie's plan for state support. One month later, the Revel Casino secured the $1.5 billion in funding it needed to complete the casino resort."
2. What the hell is the status of this, & how do you explain you want to run the country's finances- after this goes on your watch?
"In late 2013, the New Jersey pension board invested $300 million into Chatham Investments, a hedge fund with a 28% stake in the Revel. State officials assured the pension board that the investment wouldn't be impacted by the struggling casino."
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/06/22/Christies-260-Million-Bet-Goes-Bust-in-NJ
I am a Christie fan in general, but Revel remains an undiscovered smorgasbord of red meat for the army of Christie haters (&Hillary's opposition research).
If you are familiar with Breitbart, they are often an initial source for stories that proliferate inside the beltway & mainstream media.
The Christie haters were unable to pin traffic-gate on him directly, but that fizzling scandal could pale by comparison.
I think 2 key potential smoking guns may be ripe for further investigation:
1. It's almost defies belief that private investment cos. would have gone near this mess, for which a freshman MBA student could see the #'s were way out of whack , without some serious political arm twisting.Did these investment cos. get other political favors in return?
"In late January 2011, Revel and its advisor J.P. Morgan, proposed a three-loan, $1.5 billion package that would allow construction on the project to be completed. A week later, Gov. Christie announced $260 million in tax breaks over 20 years to aid the casino. The New Jersey Economic Development Authority quickly approved Christie's plan for state support. One month later, the Revel Casino secured the $1.5 billion in funding it needed to complete the casino resort."
2. What the hell is the status of this, & how do you explain you want to run the country's finances- after this goes on your watch?
"In late 2013, the New Jersey pension board invested $300 million into Chatham Investments, a hedge fund with a 28% stake in the Revel. State officials assured the pension board that the investment wouldn't be impacted by the struggling casino."
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/06/22/Christies-260-Million-Bet-Goes-Bust-in-NJ
June 24th, 2014 at 6:32:28 AM
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Quote: sodawaterIf the price is right. If you can really get a brand new, $2 billion resort for 5 cents on the dollar ($100M), OR LESS, imagine how profitable that would be if you had the existing player-base and loyalty programs to fill those rooms. Caesars or Borgata (MGM/Boyd) are the only two companies established in AC that could do this right now.
Unfortunately, how many $ a bunch of suckers flushed down a toilet, to build or acquire something, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it's current economic value- especially when the govt. is involved in the process.
A "bridge to nowhere" is still worth nothing, no matter how many billions you spend on it.
June 24th, 2014 at 6:35:11 AM
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I am familiar with Breitbart. Nasty.
I have a real problem with equating 260 million in tax breaks over 20 years with 260 million as a "bet", an "investment", or a "bond issue", or any other up-front type of money. Very dishonest, not just on Breitbart's part, but from many media outlets. Creating a favorable climate for construction and job growth in a distressed economic area is what governments DO. It worked in South Carolina (bringing BMW and Boeing), Alabama and Tennessee (Toyota), a hundred other places. And, since this is a math site, 13 million/year is CHUMP CHANGE compared to what the Revel should have brought into the area had it been a success (which it still could be under competent management, according to people on here who know more about how it was run than I do). Taxes on everything from rental cars to increased pax traffic at ACY, to sales taxes on food/shopping/hotel/etc., along with payroll/state taxes (don't know the NJ structure) on a couple thousand employees would've dwarfed that amount. It was a good decision.
Does the Governor sign off directly on pension investments? I'm not sure I see the connection, or the responsibility.
I have a real problem with equating 260 million in tax breaks over 20 years with 260 million as a "bet", an "investment", or a "bond issue", or any other up-front type of money. Very dishonest, not just on Breitbart's part, but from many media outlets. Creating a favorable climate for construction and job growth in a distressed economic area is what governments DO. It worked in South Carolina (bringing BMW and Boeing), Alabama and Tennessee (Toyota), a hundred other places. And, since this is a math site, 13 million/year is CHUMP CHANGE compared to what the Revel should have brought into the area had it been a success (which it still could be under competent management, according to people on here who know more about how it was run than I do). Taxes on everything from rental cars to increased pax traffic at ACY, to sales taxes on food/shopping/hotel/etc., along with payroll/state taxes (don't know the NJ structure) on a couple thousand employees would've dwarfed that amount. It was a good decision.
Does the Governor sign off directly on pension investments? I'm not sure I see the connection, or the responsibility.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
June 24th, 2014 at 6:52:24 AM
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The idea of closing down Revel is ridiculous. It's the most beautiful property at the waterfront. Old and ugly casinos should be demolished, leaving Revel as a center piece of boardwalk revival.
June 24th, 2014 at 7:38:36 AM
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Buzz talking about the Playboy made me remember my first trip their in the early 80's. First place I ever paid $5 for a beer in the lounge on the 3rd floor, but I got free nuts. The waitress was in the bunny costume, it seemed so cool at the time for an under 21 YO. I remember the casino as small and narrow, but now looking back at the empty lot where it sat, it is hard to believe someone would actually design something that small.
AC was so cool at that time and will never get that vibe back it had when casinos were packed day and night. At least until they closed for the night. But that is another story for another time.
AC was so cool at that time and will never get that vibe back it had when casinos were packed day and night. At least until they closed for the night. But that is another story for another time.
June 24th, 2014 at 7:39:59 AM
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Quote: Dicenor33The idea of closing down Revel is ridiculous. It's the most beautiful property at the waterfront. Old and ugly casinos should be demolished, leaving Revel as a center piece of boardwalk revival.
Beautiful, maybe, practical, no way. Poorly designed from the start no one is going to put the money into it to make it right, so it will continue to lose money even if it is bought for $1.
June 24th, 2014 at 7:59:31 AM
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Quote: BozBeautiful, maybe, practical, no way. Poorly designed from the start no one is going to put the money into it to make it right, so it will continue to lose money even if it is bought for $1.
Yeah, really. "I'll give you a dollar for your $200,000,000 annual debt." "Okay!"
A falling knife has no handle.
June 24th, 2014 at 8:57:59 AM
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South Carolina's economic vibrancy largely stems from reform-minded policies, including right to work, reduced taxation and a governor who relishes advancing her pro-development program with leadership.
In Jersey, the $300 million to the hedge fund with such a large stake in Revel would be in addition to the $260 million in reduced taxes. It's just a matter of Jersey accounting. And for perspective on Jersey legalities, the governor and his cronies are facing major criminal investigations by federal and state prosecutors on both sides of the Hudson.
"March 16--Atlantic City's beleaguered Revel Casino & Hotel has lost millions from the start, but that hasn't stopped New Jersey's pension system from placing a $300 million bet with the largest owner of the oceanfront resort. The state agency that oversees the multi-billion dollar employee pension funds voted late last year to invest $300 million with Chatham Asset Management, the hedge fund that owns 28 percent in the troubled casino property.
The investment deal is complex. Although the state plans to invest in Chatham, treasury officials say the transfer of funds won't happen until later this year -- when Chatham said it hopes to shed itself from the faltering casino. But treasury officials told the State Investment Council that there is no firm timetable for when Chatham will be out of Revel.
Board members Marty Barrett and Adam Leibtag questioned Chatham's investment in Revel, but were assured by staff from the state Treasury Department's Investment Division that they expect Chatham to be out of Revel by the time the state provides the $300 million to to the company later this year.
"Therefore no pension fund assets were expected to be invested in that enterprise," according to the minutes. But the minutes also note that Chris McDonough, the investment division's director, said that the division could not guarantee what could happen in the future, since it could not "override the managers' fiduciary duty and investment selection" . . . . Chatham was one of several hedge funds that provided financing for Revel to help the casino complete construction in 2011." insurancenewsnet
In Jersey, the $300 million to the hedge fund with such a large stake in Revel would be in addition to the $260 million in reduced taxes. It's just a matter of Jersey accounting. And for perspective on Jersey legalities, the governor and his cronies are facing major criminal investigations by federal and state prosecutors on both sides of the Hudson.
"March 16--Atlantic City's beleaguered Revel Casino & Hotel has lost millions from the start, but that hasn't stopped New Jersey's pension system from placing a $300 million bet with the largest owner of the oceanfront resort. The state agency that oversees the multi-billion dollar employee pension funds voted late last year to invest $300 million with Chatham Asset Management, the hedge fund that owns 28 percent in the troubled casino property.
The investment deal is complex. Although the state plans to invest in Chatham, treasury officials say the transfer of funds won't happen until later this year -- when Chatham said it hopes to shed itself from the faltering casino. But treasury officials told the State Investment Council that there is no firm timetable for when Chatham will be out of Revel.
Board members Marty Barrett and Adam Leibtag questioned Chatham's investment in Revel, but were assured by staff from the state Treasury Department's Investment Division that they expect Chatham to be out of Revel by the time the state provides the $300 million to to the company later this year.
"Therefore no pension fund assets were expected to be invested in that enterprise," according to the minutes. But the minutes also note that Chris McDonough, the investment division's director, said that the division could not guarantee what could happen in the future, since it could not "override the managers' fiduciary duty and investment selection" . . . . Chatham was one of several hedge funds that provided financing for Revel to help the casino complete construction in 2011." insurancenewsnet
June 24th, 2014 at 9:08:09 AM
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Quote: Dicenor33The idea of closing down Revel is ridiculous. It's the most beautiful property at the waterfront. Old and ugly casinos should be demolished, leaving Revel as a center piece of boardwalk revival.
I agree, aesthetically, Revel , despite some critical design flaws, blows away the other Boardwalk properties -but that doesn't make it practical to operate -even if you paid $1.
Years ago a friend of my was given a "free" used Jaguar by a family member.
He had the coolest car in town, until the maintenance cost made him broke.
No matter how desirable something is, it's not practical if it can't be operated at at the appropriate cost.
The driving force behind Revel was not a career investor/developer/marketing/gaming mogul/ magnate like Steve Wynn , or Sheldon Adelson.
It was a former NJ State Trooper who somehow rose thru the ranks of middle mngmt of Casinos built by others.
We have to remember this is NJ, where economic opportunities often backfire , & accelerate a downward spiral they were supposed to solve.
Exhibit A:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands
June 24th, 2014 at 1:35:17 PM
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ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP)
— Two Atlantic City casinos have been fined a total of $66,000, with the bulk of the fines levied against Harrah’s Resort Atlantic City for letting underage patrons gamble and drink.
Harrah’s was fined $60,000 by the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement for five incidents involving patrons ranging in age from 18 to 20. The minimum age for gambling and drinking in New Jersey is 21.
In one instance, Harrah’s let a 20-year-old from New York play blackjack even after a security guard checked his ID.
The patron, identified in legal documents only as “AT,” went to a security podium and asked for a wrist band that would indicate that his age had been checked and verified by casino security. But the identification he presented was expired, and “AT” was denied a wrist band.
But he went to a blackjack table and began playing anyway. About 10 minutes later, security removed him from the table and took him to a temporary holding area where he presented his true identification, a New York state driver’s license indicating he was 20 years old, that even had the words “Under 21″ stamped on it.
The gaming enforcement division said the guard misread the license, handed it back to “AT” and allowed him to return to a table, where he played 55 more hands before being challenged again and finally removed from the casino.
In another incident, Harrah’s allowed an 18-year-old from New York to gamble and drink for nine hours, during which he interacted with 12 different dealers and five supervisors. The patron, identified only as “LC,” also was given eight bottles of beer by four different servers.
It was only when he was found unconscious in a Keno parlor that the casino checked for identification, and found that what he had did not belong to him. Paramedics were called and he was taken to a nearby hospital.
In a different case, Harrah’s allowed a 19-year-old New Jersey woman to gamble and drink for nine hours, placing 195 bets at a roulette table while consuming eight alcoholic drinks. In two other cases, it allowed an 18-year-old woman to drink at a casino bar, and let a 20-year-old play slots on two different dates.
The Golden Nugget was fined $6,000 for not including the 1-800-GAMBLER message in an outdoor advertisement for its Internet gambling website.
The fines were made public last week.
The casinos did not immediately respond to requests for comment on the incidents, which took place over the past two years.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/06/24/2-atlantic-city-casinos-fined-total-of-66000/
— Two Atlantic City casinos have been fined a total of $66,000, with the bulk of the fines levied against Harrah’s Resort Atlantic City for letting underage patrons gamble and drink.
Harrah’s was fined $60,000 by the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement for five incidents involving patrons ranging in age from 18 to 20. The minimum age for gambling and drinking in New Jersey is 21.
In one instance, Harrah’s let a 20-year-old from New York play blackjack even after a security guard checked his ID.
The patron, identified in legal documents only as “AT,” went to a security podium and asked for a wrist band that would indicate that his age had been checked and verified by casino security. But the identification he presented was expired, and “AT” was denied a wrist band.
But he went to a blackjack table and began playing anyway. About 10 minutes later, security removed him from the table and took him to a temporary holding area where he presented his true identification, a New York state driver’s license indicating he was 20 years old, that even had the words “Under 21″ stamped on it.
The gaming enforcement division said the guard misread the license, handed it back to “AT” and allowed him to return to a table, where he played 55 more hands before being challenged again and finally removed from the casino.
In another incident, Harrah’s allowed an 18-year-old from New York to gamble and drink for nine hours, during which he interacted with 12 different dealers and five supervisors. The patron, identified only as “LC,” also was given eight bottles of beer by four different servers.
It was only when he was found unconscious in a Keno parlor that the casino checked for identification, and found that what he had did not belong to him. Paramedics were called and he was taken to a nearby hospital.
In a different case, Harrah’s allowed a 19-year-old New Jersey woman to gamble and drink for nine hours, placing 195 bets at a roulette table while consuming eight alcoholic drinks. In two other cases, it allowed an 18-year-old woman to drink at a casino bar, and let a 20-year-old play slots on two different dates.
The Golden Nugget was fined $6,000 for not including the 1-800-GAMBLER message in an outdoor advertisement for its Internet gambling website.
The fines were made public last week.
The casinos did not immediately respond to requests for comment on the incidents, which took place over the past two years.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/06/24/2-atlantic-city-casinos-fined-total-of-66000/
June 24th, 2014 at 2:51:53 PM
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Quote: SanchoPanzaSouth Carolina's economic vibrancy largely stems from reform-minded policies, including right to work, reduced taxation and a governor who relishes advancing her pro-development program with leadership.
Good points. What all the Christie bashers intentionally forget is that NJ, unlike SC, Texas, WI,IN,OH and so many others has a Kleptocrat majority in both legislative houses. Before real pension or other reforms that party would suck the blood, bone and gristle out of working people and feed it to their base-corrupt cronies, welfare bums, anchor babies and public union predators.
Almost (and this is not a typo) $9000 a year property taxes for the AVERAGE house. Let that be a warning to other states to stop electing these insane trickle-up thieves. Because how they squeezed the life out of the northeast can happen in your state.
June 24th, 2014 at 3:45:00 PM
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And the Feds put Jimmy HOffa away for investing union funds in Las Vegas !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
June 24th, 2014 at 4:59:27 PM
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Quote: BuzzardAnd the Feds put Jimmy HOffa away for investing union funds in Las Vegas !
Relevant to this discussion how?
June 25th, 2014 at 5:48:46 AM
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June 25th, 2014 at 8:07:23 AM
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That report misses 40 percent of old-time journalism basics. It doesn't say what day the assault occurred. Just "over the weekend" and 10 p.m. Weekends can have two or three 10 p.m.'s. Second, it does not state where the incident occurred, a hotel room, a service area, the garage, the casino floor or wherever. The Taj is a sprawling place. But welcome to the world of the new journalism.Quote: Bozhttp://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/crime/atlantic-city-police-investigating-weekend-assault-at-taj-mahal/article_7fdd84a0-fbbf-11e3-b900-001a4bcf887a.html
June 25th, 2014 at 5:57:41 PM
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Revel files notice of possible layoffs
The operator of Revel Casino Hotel has alerted a state agency to potential layoffs for more than 3,000 employees.
Revel Entertainment Group said job cuts could take effect Aug. 18 for 3,268 workers at its troubled venture in Atlantic City. The information is in a WARN Notice, filed Monday with the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development.
http://www.courierpostonline.com/story/money/business/2014/06/25/revel-files-notice-possible-layoffs/11381881/
The operator of Revel Casino Hotel has alerted a state agency to potential layoffs for more than 3,000 employees.
Revel Entertainment Group said job cuts could take effect Aug. 18 for 3,268 workers at its troubled venture in Atlantic City. The information is in a WARN Notice, filed Monday with the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development.
http://www.courierpostonline.com/story/money/business/2014/06/25/revel-files-notice-possible-layoffs/11381881/
June 25th, 2014 at 6:51:12 PM
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And according to people in AC, layoffs have already started. Even loyal AC defenders are stating FT Revel employees are being told their jobs are gone.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g29750-i78-k7562034-o10-Podcast_discussion_of_Revel_AC-Atlantic_City_New_Jersey.html
See "Jerryac" who is always a defender of all that is good in AC, while blocking anything negative.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g29750-i78-k7562034-o10-Podcast_discussion_of_Revel_AC-Atlantic_City_New_Jersey.html
See "Jerryac" who is always a defender of all that is good in AC, while blocking anything negative.
June 25th, 2014 at 7:13:34 PM
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Quote: BozAnd according to people in AC, layoffs have already started. Even loyal AC defenders are stating FT Revel employees are being told their jobs are gone.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g29750-i78-k7562034-o10-Podcast_discussion_of_Revel_AC-Atlantic_City_New_Jersey.html
See "Jerryac" who is always a defender of all that is good in AC, while blocking anything negative.
No worries, I saw the "fantasy bunch" is now assuring us that potential billions of $ in lost casino revenues (considering what Revel cost AC in both "goodwill" detroyed on other AC Casino balance sheets , & creating a toxic environment for any future AC investment), can be made up for by informing 1/2 a dozen remaining TA eyeballs to come to a free beach, in a crime ridden area, to shop at 99cent stores & eat at Johnny Rockets with coupons.
It's a goddamn shame what's happening to these 3000+ workers here , the AC club, & other AC casino employees about to have the shoe drop on them due to Revel's ludicrous business plan.
Those who took compensation to pump Revel & delete posts on msg boards, are now forced to look themselves in the mirror & take responsibility....If they ever gain the intellect to realize what they did- which is a longshot.
June 25th, 2014 at 8:35:17 PM
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Quote: BozRelevant to this discussion how?
Oh I don't know. Think the head of New Jersey's pension fund will even get a slap on the wrist.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
June 25th, 2014 at 8:44:50 PM
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Did you hear mObters were kicked out of the church automatically excommunicated by the pope. Luckily for Tony Soprano, he was grandfathered into Heaven.Quote: BuzzardOh I don't know. Think the head of New Jersey's pension fund will even get a slap on the wrist.
I am a robot.
June 25th, 2014 at 8:58:13 PM
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Hey, used to be you had to do something to become a Saint. The Catholic church just made one of a Pope who refused to do anything about the pedophiles in the Church. Oh, except remove assets from parishes that might be sued by the victims !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
June 25th, 2014 at 8:59:45 PM
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TIME OUT BACK TO ATLANTIC CITY.
Anybody else actually the horse dive on the Steel Pier ?
Anybody else actually the horse dive on the Steel Pier ?
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
June 25th, 2014 at 10:29:17 PM
permalink
This is all very sad. Despite the there FK ups, I still thought this place was the coolest thing about AC.
They were sending free rooms food and fair free play. For very little action.
I cant stand casino chains they really suck.
I was trying to think, if someone did buy them out, who would I want it to be.
They were sending free rooms food and fair free play. For very little action.
I cant stand casino chains they really suck.
I was trying to think, if someone did buy them out, who would I want it to be.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
June 26th, 2014 at 3:27:34 AM
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Quote: BuzzardTIME OUT BACK TO ATLANTIC CITY.
Anybody else actually the horse dive on the Steel Pier ?
I didn't spend a lot of time in AC prior to Resorts' opening. I never saw the show but I do remember the pool. (Contrary to the belief of many, the horses did not dive into the ocean.)
They returned for a very short time about twenty years ago but were gone almost as soon as they got there. I didn't see them then either. They almost made it back two years ago but the protests were overwhelming which was probably the case in the 90s as well.
How does everyone feel about it from a cruelty to animals point of view?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
June 26th, 2014 at 8:41:24 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfThis is all very sad. Despite the there FK ups, I still thought this place was the coolest thing about AC.
They were sending free rooms food and fair free play. For very little action.
I cant stand casino chains they really suck.
I was trying to think, if someone did buy them out, who would I want it to be.
Not sure who you want it to be, but I still think Loveman may end up with Revel, pitching it as he being the only person who has a shot at making it work with their built in customer base. Closing Showboat gets around the 4 casino rule and also reduces competition for him. It very easily could be a non cash purchase like PH in Vegas, just an assumption of some debt. I just don't see Hard Rock wanting anything to do with AC as currently situation, so that leaves CZR and perhaps Tropicana in my mind.
AC needs a few more casinos to close down to allow the ones left to try and make enough to be profitable.
June 26th, 2014 at 9:51:05 AM
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Quote: BuzzardTIME OUT BACK TO ATLANTIC CITY.
Anybody else actually the horse dive on the Steel Pier ?
Yes. I saw it back in the 70's.
June 26th, 2014 at 10:57:50 AM
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Less casinos means less hotel rooms. More money without having places for people to stay free or cheaply puzzles me.
I am a robot.
June 26th, 2014 at 12:22:24 PM
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Me of course, re-branded as a place with Modern comfort and beauty with classic Atlantic city values of the past. But, they keep yapping on about having to have a gaming licence and millions of dollars in credit or something. It was kind of hard to understand, they were to busy laughing when I put in my bid.Quote: BozNot sure who you want it to be.
I guess the Tropicana would be better then the HR from an AP perspective. Personally I'm a fan of HR as far as a coolness factor.
I wish some new independent could jump in. They could run a You cant lose II promotion take out all the BS small print and add in We really mean it this time.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
June 26th, 2014 at 2:06:53 PM
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Icahn might just be interested in a deal just for assumption of debt. Anything over $35 million or so may not fly.Quote: BozThat leaves CZR and perhaps Tropicana in my mind. AC needs a few more casinos to close down to allow the ones left to try and make enough to be profitable.
June 26th, 2014 at 5:10:29 PM
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Showboat announcing closing tomorrow says press reports.
Post #1941
Post #1941
I am a robot.
June 26th, 2014 at 5:16:06 PM
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Quote: BozNot sure who you want it to be, but I still think Loveman may end up with Revel, pitching it as he being the only person who has a shot at making it work with their built in customer base. Closing Showboat gets around the 4 casino rule and also reduces competition for him. It very easily could be a non cash purchase like PH in Vegas, just an assumption of some debt. I just don't see Hard Rock wanting anything to do with AC as currently situation, so that leaves CZR and perhaps Tropicana in my mind.
AC needs a few more casinos to close down to allow the ones left to try and make enough to be profitable.
If Loveman got his hands on Revel, based on his recent comment regarding excess AC capacity, it would likely be MORE CZR casinos than Showboat that would ultimately be closed .
I believe this is the game of chicken RV referenced in BK court.
Swapping Revel (1,400 rooms finished?) for Showboat (1,330 rooms) would maintain- or slightly increase capacity-vs RV closed- This is not Loveman's stated goal.
If you follow CZR, they are soley focused right now on getting on the last casino boat into Asia, via Japan.
After being disqualified on their previous Asian attempt due to debt structure , they have restructured debt & isolated all AC properties into their "dog" subsidiary.
I see a possibility they could dump their AC properties on the dog group bondholders they just created, hand them the keys, & say "now you own them suckers - have a nice day"
They could then obtain separate financing for Revel, as a separate issue, acquiring it unencumbered via their "growth" subsidiary, as they are doing with Japan.
as seen in this Loveman Video yesterday-
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/caesars-entertainment-ceo-on-prospects-for-japan-nX5viFAKTWe_3_xSzrZBqw.html?cmpid=yhoo
