mds
Posted by mds
Sep 24, 2013

COMPS AND AVG BET

So, since just about every Casino doesn’t include odds in your avg bet my avg has been way down… I play this way… 100 on the don’t and full odds of 600.. They have my avg bet as 100! That’s it! So I thought I would put the 100 on the don’t and after the point is established I would LAY that number. That way my avg is 700! However, over time after 50 lay bets I am giving them an extra 500 in vig over an hour or so. It is about winning yes but I also need the avg. I know I should just pay for the fricken room and go about my business but I have always been coming in comped and kind of like it. I have only been playing the dark side for about 2 years now and I am WAY ahead. The casino hassles me every time about my average.

HERE IS THE BIG QUESTION… If I bet lets say 300 on the don’t and 300 on the pass then lay about 300 on the don’t pass only, what would my avg be? I understand if a 12 come out I will lose and I’m ok with that…Any other options? Thanks

Comments

FleaStiff
FleaStiff Sep 25, 2013

WHY are you giving them extra vig by Laying the Number rather than Laying Odds?



WHY do you want to do both DontPass and Pass ??

Mission146
Mission146 Sep 25, 2013

First of all, I have no idea why you would Doey-Don't, though I suspect you may well get credited for $600 in action per Line Resolution. Although, I suppose it is possible that they would only credit you for $300, it would depend on how they look at that, I guess.



The Lay Bets are definitely a bad idea for the reason you stated, which is the increased House Edge. I'm not quite sure why your average bet (i.e. comps) would be more important to you than giving yourself the best chance to win the game, because (in terms of points) your Comps are generally only a percentage of your theoretical loss. In other words, one way or another, you're paying for the comps anyway.



Think of it like a hotel that has an indoor pool. Now, the vast majority of hotel guests (in my experience) don't use the indoor pool, however, some guests will book at that hotel specifically because they have an indoor pool, so that's increased revenue. Furthermore, the hotel will charge a bit more than a different hotel that is otherwise substantially similar, but lacks an indoor pool, but every guest pays the slightly higher rate.



The comparison isn't exactly right, but the point remains the same: if you are being offered something, whether you use it or not, you are paying for it.



Discretionary comps may be a little different, I'm not sure what kind of discretionary comps you get.



Honestly, though, if you're absolutely determined to have an average bet of $600, or $700, or whatever, then just put all of it on the Don't Pass. It has the lowest House Edge of any bet per resolution, with exception to Odds, so it costs you less than those Lay Bets in the long run.



The main thing to keep in mind, though, is to never play specifically for comps, unless you are an AP because then they presumably come at an EV of over 100%, even factoring in the House Edge.

mds
mds Sep 25, 2013

I would rather not give the hotel 2000.00 for a room upfront. Yes it most likely be comped but I just don't like giving them 2k before I even get there. So, yes I play for comps and I know I am paying for it one way or the other. I would love to play full odds but again, they don't count it in my avg bet.. So, question is.... If I bet 500 on do and 500 on don't is the casino giving me a 1000 avg? Anyone know the answer? By the way If I do just play the don't for 500 with no odds I can lose real fast if a few 7 or elevens come out on the first roll and that frightens me.

Thank you

Mission146
Mission146 Sep 25, 2013

Well, if you don't mind playing for comps, and you know you are playing for comps, what can I say?



Where is this casino? I can just call and ask them how they would construe the average bet based on a Doey-Don't situation, then I'll give you the answer. My answer is it probably depends on the House in question, and I don't know what the most standard practice is.

mds
mds Sep 25, 2013

Thanks. My educated guess is 300 a hand... Wynn, Aria, Cosmo and Caesars... 300 and 300 do and don't. Thanks..

odiousgambit
odiousgambit Sep 26, 2013

please use the forum to ask questions.

Mission146
Mission146 Sep 26, 2013

"Thanks. My educated guess is 300 a hand... Wynn, Aria, Cosmo and Caesars... 300 and 300 do and don't. Thanks.."



Wynn-Credits the Doey-Don't based on total bet, $600 average bet.



Aria-Really weird hold music-Advised Tables usually doesn't answer phones until 7:00p.m., after holding 10min.



Cosmopolitan-Table games ratings are based only on the amount that can be lost, thus, $300. She said the fact that only 1/36 bets lose might also be considered, thus further reducing what they consider the average bet, but she didn't say specifically to what.



Caesar's-Credits the Doey-Don't based on the total bet, $600 average bet.



All calls made between 14:15-14:45 on this 9/26/2013 EST.



I'll be busy this evening, so we may have to wait until tomorrow to find out for Aria.



For now, Cosmo sucks, go to Wynn or Caesar's!

mds
mds Sep 26, 2013

Thank you. Since you are calling, can you talk to your connection at the Venetian? Same question. So you know as a don't player 95% of the time, after I get by the come out roll I will be putting full odds on the don't. Thanks

Mission146
Mission146 Sep 27, 2013

Thank you. Since you are calling, can you talk to your connection at the Venetian? Same question. So you know as a don't player 95% of the time, after I get by the come out roll I will be putting full odds on the don't. Thanks



I'll call the Venetian, but I'm going to let you know that I think Venetian sucks, regardless of what their answer is, for their treatment of the Wizard.



I'll also try Aria again later this evening.



If you want to have a decent chance of running into Forum Member and journalist, Alan Mendelson, Caesar's would be a good place to go. I don't know when he plays, but he has openly and freely posted that is usually where he plays.



Just for the record, I don't have any, "Connections," anywhere. I've never been to Vegas in my life. I'm just calling the casinos and asking to be transferred to, "Tables," or, "Dice Pit," or "Tables Supervisor," whichever is appropriate for that casino.

Mission146
Mission146 Sep 27, 2013

Venetian sucks, very polite on the phone, though. It's rate at $300, but at least it's the full $300.

mds
mds Oct 15, 2013

So after finding out the Wynn, Caesars, Cosmo, Aria, Mgm and so on all count a Doey-Dont as an average bet I tried it and got exactly what I wanted! Here is what I did. As I said above over the past 2 years or so I am a dark side player. You see, I might have had a few good 20 minute rolls out of 1000s on the pass side I always saw the 7 come up. So one day I said to myself, self, im going to go with the dark side. Go with the odds and have no emotion! In 2 1/2 years I haven't lost!!! that's right, I HAVENT LOST! I have broke even but haven't lost! Ok, so maybe 3 times out of 25 trips to Vegas, Bahamas, Palm Springs and even a cruise. Call it luck. Call it good money management or whatever. Knock on wood I won! Now to my avg bet..... As I said above I would bet 100 on the don't and take 600 in odds... The Casino would only give me a 100 avg... I understand it but I didn't like it. I went to Vegas last week and put 400 on the pass and 500 on the don't with 300 or 600 in odds only. Average bet is now 900 a hand! No 12s came up and won again. (Knock on wood) At 900 a hand I got a suite, airfare and everything else I wanted. In other words RFB which they don't hand out to often anymore. Played for 11 hours over 3 days. Also, no problem getting 2 rooms for new years this year. A suite and an adjoining room! At a 100 avg I always got comped but it was a hassle. Not anymore. I only got comped at 100 due to me having a long relationship with the above casinos. The only hotel that wouldn't give me that avg was the Venetian. I WILL NEVER PLAY THERE AGAIN! They apparently are doing so well that they don't need a player willing to lose 10k a trip.

corvetteracing
corvetteracing Jan 06, 2014

Yea, actually way better off paying for the cheap azzzz rooms & food and all of the trash those dirty casinos toss your way to get your almighty dollar. Believe me, I could pau for the room, food, shows etc.. & get wayyy better quality plus still have $$ to play on. Its not about average or vig I spent years there. Its about life. I am free now, I can go play with the big boys, then I can go set on the beach someplace & get my thang on there as well for the same amopunt that I was tossing @ those filthy casinos. Ya know, they never really made me happy, never really gave me anything shiny & new. All that they gave me in return for my shiny new gold being dumped to them was scratched, chipped torn, tattered used leftovers. Heck often times the sheets were not even changed. I settled for less. All in the name of being happy & good times. I am soo grateful I am not there at that juncture in life any longer. I feel good knowing that anytime I want to go that nasty casino will always be there taking some other poor souls shiny gold in exchange for downtrodding gifts. I can go play big with the big boys & turn around & play big for myself enjoying the many wonders of the world & all life has in it. I AM NO LONGER A SLAVE TO THOSE DOWNTRODDEN FILTHY CASINOS.

corvetteracing
corvetteracing Jan 06, 2014

Doin the dp & pass just to build comp, can't afford to lose the $ so thats one way they believe it will work,. Until the dealer catches on to what your doing then they pick you off of each # one at a time. So in the end you lose. I done that same strategy for years. I never came out ahead enough to really count.

corvetteracing
corvetteracing Jan 06, 2014

believe me, if there was a way to beat the house, the house doors would no longer be open. The house may let you believe you are making headway, then you go bigger & thats when the house comes after you. Taking all in your tracks. Ive seen it. I destroyed myself standing 24 hour stints @ the tables priming the dealers to be with me. In the end, the house doors are still open.

corvetteracing
corvetteracing Jan 06, 2014

Most houses will not give any thing for that type of play because as they see it you are not exerting any real risk & they are so in most cases most houses give nada for that play. You stand for hours precisely watching every move, unable to have conversation god forbid the dealers catch you off guard not paying attention & will ruin you. You turn & all of your $ on the table is gone. So you have no enjoyment because you have stand & not have any interaction in order to pay close attention to the slides that take place at the table. That is worse than living & working in a 3rd world country. The way I see it you are a slave to the houses, when you no longer want to be that & want to get enjoymnet & interaction out of it, a life thats when the house will boot you aside.

corvetteracing
corvetteracing Jan 06, 2014

If you are actually having someone play your $ against the bet that you make the casino picks up on that & for sure will not comp as you then are playing with no risk out therefore the house would not give a teardrop of comp, if you are actually playing the front on one 3 & the back against another # that is where you will lose as the dealer will take you down as that is what they are trained for. The number you are against will be called, & the next # will be a 7 therefore the front goes down. There is no way to win with this strategy this is a poor mans strategy & has no business on the table.

corvetteracing
corvetteracing Jan 06, 2014

Speaking from Years of experience

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